Celtics exposed?

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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#181 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:48 pm

Karate Diop wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
Was Kemba worth the huge overpay though? Seems like they're going to end up repeating last year's mistakes... Tatum and Brown want shots...


I think adding a top 20-25 player and allstar playing a position of need is more important than keeping your backup Center. So Yes. He’s better than both Tatum and Brown just as Kyrie was also better so having Walker take those shots also makes you a better Offensive team.

Besides, Baynes really isn’t any better than Kanter or Theis or Williams, Horford is the real loss here.


Eh I'd have to throw together rankings but gun to my head - off the top of my head - Kemba easily is not a Top 20 player. I guess my point was would the Celtics have been better off rolling with Smart, signing another PG for a fraction of the cost and then using their remaining cap space to shore up the front line ?


Nba.com just ranked him 18th. Sports illustrated 20th and ESPN 17th. Plus he was 3rd team all league last season. He’s at worst close to a top 20 player.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#182 » by dakomish23 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:50 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Asif16 wrote:They're probably gonna end up trading for Steven Adams somehow


My money is on Bamba


My money is on you being wrong.

Drummond makes a lot more sense.


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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#183 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:53 pm

RHODEY wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:
Was Kemba worth the huge overpay though? Seems like they're going to end up repeating last year's mistakes... Tatum and Brown want shots...


I think adding a top 20-25 player and allstar playing a position of need is more important than keeping your backup Center. So Yes. He’s better than both Tatum and Brown just as Kyrie was also better so having Walker take those shots also makes you a better Offensive team.

Besides, Baynes really isn’t any better than Kanter or Theis or Williams, Horford is the real loss here.


Retaining Baynes and Morris would have mitigated that loss. Pretending those 2 are marginal players is delusional.


Sorry. you’ll have to point out where I called either of those players marginal? I’ll wait.

But since you’re going to toss around the word delusional, I’ll chime in. Anyone thinking that a back up Center and a backup forward are more valuable to any team than an all star PG and 3rd team all-NBA player is delusional.

And it’s especially delusional when that team has depth to replace the minutes of those players at both the forward and Center spots but was about to lose both their top PG’s and was looking painfully thin at guard.
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I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#184 » by lonzo_pelota » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:02 pm

AwkwardBoogaloo wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
lonzo_pelota wrote:celtics will surprise a lot of people this year, i wont be one of them unfortunately as kemba has shown us what he can typically do at the helm of your team


Confused, you think BOS will surprise in a good way because of Kemba's track record? What has he ever done in CHAR?


I could be wrong but I think he means people will be surprised at how bad the Celtics will be this season



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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#185 » by VDT » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:12 pm

Noone expects the Celtics to do much this year so they cant really be exposed.

However Ainge should take some blame for the Celtics current situation. The Bucks, the Lakers and the Sixers started their rebuild at the same time as the Celtics and they are comfortably better right now despite the fact that the Celtics started with much more assets. The Nets started even later and with no picks and they are better. Even the Magic that have been run terribly in the past years might have a better future. Even the Raptors that were going nowhere managed to build a contender.

Now some of it is bad luck, if Durant was more competitive and signed with the Celtics things would be different. Bu some of it is also on Ainge, who seems quite conservative in his moves and i am not talking about the trades only. He chose Olynyk instead of Giannis. He decided not to tank even though he didn't know how high the Nets picks would be and even though an IT led team of roleplayers had no future.

The team he constructed last year had no chemistry and part of the blame is on Ainge.

And the larger picture is that in all these years of the rebuild the Celtics never came particularly close to acquiring a franchise player, something that the Bucks, the Sixers and the Lakers have already done. Meanwhile Ainge never tried to risk anything (tank or a trade) to get one.
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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#186 » by grindtime22 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:15 pm

The_Hater wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
I think adding a top 20-25 player and allstar playing a position of need is more important than keeping your backup Center. So Yes. He’s better than both Tatum and Brown just as Kyrie was also better so having Walker take those shots also makes you a better Offensive team.

Besides, Baynes really isn’t any better than Kanter or Theis or Williams, Horford is the real loss here.


Retaining Baynes and Morris would have mitigated that loss. Pretending those 2 are marginal players is delusional.


Sorry. you’ll have to point out where I called either of those players marginal? I’ll wait.

But since you’re going to toss around the word delusional, I’ll chime in. Anyone thinking that a back up Center and a backup forward are more valuable to any team than an all star PG and 3rd team all-NBA player is delusional.

And it’s especially delusional when that team has depth to replace the minutes of those players at both the forward and Center spots but was about to lose both their top PG’s and was looking painfully thin at guard.


Baynes is a fantastic defensive player. It won't ever show up in the box score. You have to watch it game after game to see what is going on.

He is a fantastic rim protector, but he doesn't block shots. He protects the rim in a way that nobody else in the league does. He goes straight up and lets you run into the brick wall. Guys fly off and wonder what the hell just happened. It is an experience that they don't have against anybody else in the league. The result is similar, but it doesn't show up in the box score like a shot blocker.

He is also great for defensive rebounding, but it isn't going to show in a traditional box score. He isn't the one who ends up grabbing a ton of rebounds, but he clears out a ton of space so the team can grab them.

Last year, he was down a notch in these categories. He went from elite the prior 2 years to just really good. Was it just a 1 year thing or is the start of the decline? Either way, he is a much better defensive player than the normal viewer realizes. But yes, he really is better than Theis and Williams. Kanter, you can make the argument that their abilites on the other ends offset, but I would much, much rather have Baynes.
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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#187 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:22 pm

grindtime22 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Retaining Baynes and Morris would have mitigated that loss. Pretending those 2 are marginal players is delusional.


Sorry. you’ll have to point out where I called either of those players marginal? I’ll wait.

But since you’re going to toss around the word delusional, I’ll chime in. Anyone thinking that a back up Center and a backup forward are more valuable to any team than an all star PG and 3rd team all-NBA player is delusional.

And it’s especially delusional when that team has depth to replace the minutes of those players at both the forward and Center spots but was about to lose both their top PG’s and was looking painfully thin at guard.


Baynes is a fantastic defensive player. It won't ever show up in the box score. You have to watch it game after game to see what is going on.

He is a fantastic rim protector, but he doesn't block shots. He protects the rim in a way that nobody else in the league does. He goes straight up and lets you run into the brick wall. Guys fly off and wonder what the hell just happened. It is an experience that they don't have against anybody else in the league. The result is similar, but it doesn't show up in the box score like a shot blocker.

He is also great for defensive rebounding, but it isn't going to show in a traditional box score. He isn't the one who ends up grabbing a ton of rebounds, but he clears out a ton of space so the team can grab them.

Last year, he was down a notch in these categories. He went from elite the prior 2 years to just really good. Was it just a 1 year thing or is the start of the decline? Either way, he is a much better defensive player than the normal viewer realizes.


I don't disagree with any of your post, minus some of the hyperbole. But Baynes is still a backup level Center and Morris is going to be a backup in NY this season as well. They're both role players. What I'm disagreeing with is that when combined, they are somehow as valuable or more valuable than an all-star PG on a team that badly needed a PG. They're not. Your Celtics would be much, much worse off this season with Baynes/Morris there instead of Walker.

NBA winners are not built on around their role players, they're bulit around star/supterstar players. This is how it's always worked and neither Phoenix nor New York are going to have player level teams this season just because they added those 2 role players. They just don't move the needle much.
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I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#188 » by The Comedian » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:04 pm

Damn, Al kind of confirming that if he had known the team would get Kemba that he would stayed. That hurts a bit to read. He already had committed to the Sixers though, i respect that he wouldn't back out of a deal. Sixers fans will love him, outside of his strange inability to make bunnies.

Also, our boards incredibly reliable insider kept hinting late in the season that Al had no interest in playing with Kyrie again. Between these comments and what his sister said, safe to say reload was correct.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/10/09/al-horford-finds-hope-in-philly-after-celtics-crash/

As far as on the court, it’s certain Horford wasn’t interested in playing another hand from the same deck. I asked him if his decision would have been different if Irving had remained.

“I’m not sure that has anything to do with it for me,” Horford said. “I just think that if Kyrie would have stayed, I don’t know if it would have worked. There would have had to be some major changes as far as players, because it was just clear that the group that we had just wasn’t going to be able to coexist.”

And what about if he’d known Kemba Walker was coming. Horford paused.

“I don’t want to get caught up in the past,” he said, “but, yeah, that would have been totally different"
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#189 » by Curmudgeon » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:30 pm

tundraknight wrote:That Team USA was basically a Rich Mans version of the Celtics with a few added All Star caliber players, and still struggled through out the tournament.


Err.. Let's get our facts straight. They were undefeated in the tournament until Tatum got hurt. So I'd say they were a poor man's version of the Celtics with a few added players, none of whom had ever been an all star except Brooke Lopez in 2013.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#190 » by RHODEY » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:41 pm

VDT wrote:Noone expects the Celtics to do much this year so they cant really be exposed.

However Ainge should take some blame for the Celtics current situation. The Bucks, the Lakers and the Sixers started their rebuild at the same time as the Celtics and they are comfortably better right now despite the fact that the Celtics started with much more assets. The Nets started even later and with no picks and they are better. Even the Magic that have been run terribly in the past years might have a better future. Even the Raptors that were going nowhere managed to build a contender.

Now some of it is bad luck, if Durant was more competitive and signed with the Celtics things would be different. Bu some of it is also on Ainge, who seems quite conservative in his moves and i am not talking about the trades only. He chose Olynyk instead of Giannis. He decided not to tank even though he didn't know how high the Nets picks would be and even though an IT led team of roleplayers had no future.

The team he constructed last year had no chemistry and part of the blame is on Ainge.

And the larger picture is that in all these years of the rebuild the Celtics never came particularly close to acquiring a franchise player, something that the Bucks, the Sixers and the Lakers have already done. Meanwhile Ainge never tried to risk anything (tank or a trade) to get one.


Ainge tried to be too "cute".
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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#191 » by RHODEY » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:44 pm

grindtime22 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Retaining Baynes and Morris would have mitigated that loss. Pretending those 2 are marginal players is delusional.


Sorry. you’ll have to point out where I called either of those players marginal? I’ll wait.

But since you’re going to toss around the word delusional, I’ll chime in. Anyone thinking that a back up Center and a backup forward are more valuable to any team than an all star PG and 3rd team all-NBA player is delusional.

And it’s especially delusional when that team has depth to replace the minutes of those players at both the forward and Center spots but was about to lose both their top PG’s and was looking painfully thin at guard.


Baynes is a fantastic defensive player. It won't ever show up in the box score. You have to watch it game after game to see what is going on.

He is a fantastic rim protector, but he doesn't block shots. He protects the rim in a way that nobody else in the league does. He goes straight up and lets you run into the brick wall. Guys fly off and wonder what the hell just happened. It is an experience that they don't have against anybody else in the league. The result is similar, but it doesn't show up in the box score like a shot blocker.

He is also great for defensive rebounding, but it isn't going to show in a traditional box score. He isn't the one who ends up grabbing a ton of rebounds, but he clears out a ton of space so the team can grab them.

Last year, he was down a notch in these categories. He went from elite the prior 2 years to just really good. Was it just a 1 year thing or is the start of the decline? Either way, he is a much better defensive player than the normal viewer realizes. But yes, he really is better than Theis and Williams. Kanter, you can make the argument that their abilites on the other ends offset, but I would much, much rather have Baynes.


Yep defensively he is worlds better than Kanter to think otherwise would be delusional.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#192 » by TheBoi10 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:44 pm

Celtics are awful.

They were already mediocre, then went Kyrie and Horford to Kemba and Kanter. :lol:
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Re: Celtics interior defense exposed? 

Post#193 » by The_Hater » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:47 pm

RHODEY wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Sorry. you’ll have to point out where I called either of those players marginal? I’ll wait.

But since you’re going to toss around the word delusional, I’ll chime in. Anyone thinking that a back up Center and a backup forward are more valuable to any team than an all star PG and 3rd team all-NBA player is delusional.

And it’s especially delusional when that team has depth to replace the minutes of those players at both the forward and Center spots but was about to lose both their top PG’s and was looking painfully thin at guard.


Baynes is a fantastic defensive player. It won't ever show up in the box score. You have to watch it game after game to see what is going on.

He is a fantastic rim protector, but he doesn't block shots. He protects the rim in a way that nobody else in the league does. He goes straight up and lets you run into the brick wall. Guys fly off and wonder what the hell just happened. It is an experience that they don't have against anybody else in the league. The result is similar, but it doesn't show up in the box score like a shot blocker.

He is also great for defensive rebounding, but it isn't going to show in a traditional box score. He isn't the one who ends up grabbing a ton of rebounds, but he clears out a ton of space so the team can grab them.

Last year, he was down a notch in these categories. He went from elite the prior 2 years to just really good. Was it just a 1 year thing or is the start of the decline? Either way, he is a much better defensive player than the normal viewer realizes. But yes, he really is better than Theis and Williams. Kanter, you can make the argument that their abilites on the other ends offset, but I would much, much rather have Baynes.


Yep defensively he is worlds better than Kanter to think otherwise would be delusional.


Absolutely nobody thinks Kanter is better defensively than Baynes. Those who think they’ve seen such a position taken, are delusional.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#194 » by RHODEY » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:57 pm

TheBoi10 wrote:Celtics are awful.

They were already mediocre, then went Kyrie and Horford to Kemba and Kanter. :lol:



Kanter is starter so he's better! :)
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#195 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:23 am

I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or not.

I don't think there was one person on the Celtics board that didn't think this defense was going to be anything short of absolutely horrific. I have them as a 35 win team this year.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#196 » by dorkestra » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:35 am

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or not.

I don't think there was one person on the Celtics board that didn't think this defense was going to be anything short of absolutely horrific. I have them as a 35 win team this year.


Your prediction sounds reasonable, but doesn't align with General Board zeitgeist (though it is turning). I said something like this months ago and received a suspension for trolling.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#197 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:37 am

dorkestra wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or not.

I don't think there was one person on the Celtics board that didn't think this defense was going to be anything short of absolutely horrific. I have them as a 35 win team this year.


Your prediction sounds reasonable, but doesn't align with General Board zeitgeist (though it is turning). I said something like this months ago and received a suspension for trolling.



I said in July this is a 35 win team. They still have a log jam at small forward and their front court is going to give up a hundred points a game. This honestly maybe the worst defensive team they've ever had.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#198 » by Black Mage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 am

Froob wrote:People really in this thread roasting Ainge for not trading his picks and young players for guys like George, Butler and Kawhi who have already jumped ship twice?


So you're admitting your uber GM, uber coach, uber team history and culture can't convince a single star player to want to stay? Ouch.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#199 » by manlisten » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:47 am

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or not.

I don't think there was one person on the Celtics board that didn't think this defense was going to be anything short of absolutely horrific. I have them as a 35 win team this year.


I lurk the Celtics board often. This is a lie :lol:
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#200 » by Black Mage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:52 am

Froob wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
TroubleS0me wrote:
Tacko Fall ? He has the height & rim protection


Boban has the height as well but he's terrible on defense. It's not easy for guys that big to play effective defense for long stretches.

Boban has relatively short arms. Tacko has the largest wing spin in the history of the combine. Think there’s something to work with there. But it will have to be relatively short spurts.


Do you actually look things up for just make up ****. Boban has a 7'10" wing span, Tacko has 8'4" a total half foot difference. By comparison, Boban's wingspan is 5 inches longer than Yao's and 4 inches longer than KP.

For the record, Manute Bol had an 8'6" wingspan which probably wouldn't be a bad comparison for Tacko's potential career.

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