Celtics exposed?

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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#201 » by Black Mage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:00 am

The Comedian wrote:Damn, Al kind of confirming that if he had known the team would get Kemba that he would stayed. That hurts a bit to read. He already had committed to the Sixers though, i respect that he wouldn't back out of a deal. Sixers fans will love him, outside of his strange inability to make bunnies.

Also, our boards incredibly reliable insider kept hinting late in the season that Al had no interest in playing with Kyrie again. Between these comments and what his sister said, safe to say reload was correct.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/10/09/al-horford-finds-hope-in-philly-after-celtics-crash/

As far as on the court, it’s certain Horford wasn’t interested in playing another hand from the same deck. I asked him if his decision would have been different if Irving had remained.

“I’m not sure that has anything to do with it for me,” Horford said. “I just think that if Kyrie would have stayed, I don’t know if it would have worked. There would have had to be some major changes as far as players, because it was just clear that the group that we had just wasn’t going to be able to coexist.”

And what about if he’d known Kemba Walker was coming. Horford paused.

“I don’t want to get caught up in the past,” he said, “but, yeah, that would have been totally different"


Not saying your take is wrong, but I don't think that last part is clear at all. It could just as easily have been Horford saying the team would be totally different with Kemba instead of Kyrie and Rozier. Could go either way.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#202 » by Blaze4G » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:09 am

Black Mage wrote:
Froob wrote:People really in this thread roasting Ainge for not trading his picks and young players for guys like George, Butler and Kawhi who have already jumped ship twice?


So you're admitting your uber GM, uber coach, uber team history and culture can't convince a single star player to want to stay? Ouch.

Philly didn't convince Butler to stay...Whats your point? Ever thought players sometimes just want to play in a particular city or for a particular team no matter how good a team history has been, how good their coach or GM are? Shocking right?

If someone offered you the same pay and job you're doing now with a company based in Northern Russia, company has been around for 200 years, won awards 100 years running for the best management globally, best work environment, etc, would that make you take the job and leave your family and friends behind? Thought so.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#203 » by Black Mage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:25 am

Blaze4G wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Froob wrote:People really in this thread roasting Ainge for not trading his picks and young players for guys like George, Butler and Kawhi who have already jumped ship twice?


So you're admitting your uber GM, uber coach, uber team history and culture can't convince a single star player to want to stay? Ouch.

Philly didn't convince Butler to stay...Whats your point? Ever thought players sometimes just want to play in a particular city or for a particular team no matter how good a team history has been, how good their coach or GM are? Shocking right?

If someone offered you the same pay and job you're doing now with a company based in Northern Russia, company has been around for 200 years, won awards 100 years running for the best management globally, best work environment, etc, would that make you take the job and leave your family and friends behind? Thought so.


There's no clear answer as to which side didn't want the other. There are just as many reports that Jimmy would have stayed, but Sixers didn't offer the money or want him to. So bad comparison.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#204 » by AussieCeltic » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:14 am

VDT wrote:Noone expects the Celtics to do much this year so they cant really be exposed.

However Ainge should take some blame for the Celtics current situation. The Bucks, the Lakers and the Sixers started their rebuild at the same time as the Celtics and they are comfortably better right now despite the fact that the Celtics started with much more assets. The Nets started even later and with no picks and they are better. Even the Magic that have been run terribly in the past years might have a better future. Even the Raptors that were going nowhere managed to build a contender.

Now some of it is bad luck, if Durant was more competitive and signed with the Celtics things would be different. Bu some of it is also on Ainge, who seems quite conservative in his moves and i am not talking about the trades only. He chose Olynyk instead of Giannis. He decided not to tank even though he didn't know how high the Nets picks would be and even though an IT led team of roleplayers had no future.

The team he constructed last year had no chemistry and part of the blame is on Ainge.

And the larger picture is that in all these years of the rebuild the Celtics never came particularly close to acquiring a franchise player, something that the Bucks, the Sixers and the Lakers have already done. Meanwhile Ainge never tried to risk anything (tank or a trade) to get one.


Wait... if all those teams started their rebuilds at the same time, surely the Celtics have had the most success over that entire period.
They’ve been to a game 7 in the ECF, playoffs every year and been consistently above average. I would have rather been a fan of the Celtics in the last decade over the other teams you mentioned. Sure they had better seasons last year and the imminent future looks better - but so did the Celtics only just a few years ago. For all we know Giannis leaves in a few years, Lebron declines massively or embiid gets injured... who really knows? The nba changes that fast. All I do know is the past and the Celtics have been better than all those teams
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#205 » by niQ » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:24 am

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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#206 » by robdog_5 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:15 am

As a Celtics fan it's an issue. Brad is a better coach in these situations but losing Al is tough and Baynes/Morris brought an edge. Couldn't score well around cup and will br much better there but Defense will be an issue
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#207 » by LewisnotMiller » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 am

manlisten wrote:I've got them winning 42 games. They essentially have a tank roster on par with the Grizzlies and OKC but not as cohesive as those squads. They would be a 15 seed in the West. I know people like to say it's only preseason but there were some MAJOR red flags in that game and they were all highly predictable. During the stretch where they went down 17 they couldn't manufacture any type of looks on offense and Kemba/Kanter were getting abused on defense every single trip down the court. And this was against the Charlotte Hornets who have the most random assortment of names since Hinkie's Sixers. Stevens seems to be running the same system as last year with his center dictating the offense above the break. This made me realize how much of a crutch Horford was for him because Kanter and Williams aren't equipped for that role whatsoever. They are going to have to scratch and claw for any wins, absolutely nothing is coming easy for that team.

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Wait...you're suggesting being east or west makes a 20 game difference in record?
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#208 » by manlisten » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:26 am

LewisnotMiller wrote:
manlisten wrote:I've got them winning 42 games. They essentially have a tank roster on par with the Grizzlies and OKC but not as cohesive as those squads. They would be a 15 seed in the West. I know people like to say it's only preseason but there were some MAJOR red flags in that game and they were all highly predictable. During the stretch where they went down 17 they couldn't manufacture any type of looks on offense and Kemba/Kanter were getting abused on defense every single trip down the court. And this was against the Charlotte Hornets who have the most random assortment of names since Hinkie's Sixers. Stevens seems to be running the same system as last year with his center dictating the offense above the break. This made me realize how much of a crutch Horford was for him because Kanter and Williams aren't equipped for that role whatsoever. They are going to have to scratch and claw for any wins, absolutely nothing is coming easy for that team.

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Wait...you're suggesting being east or west makes a 20 game difference in record?


Slight exaggeration. But I'm not really sure they're better than Phoenix on paper. They don't have anyone as good as Booker or Ayton and Rubio would be better for that roster than Kemba.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#209 » by Baski » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:51 am

StojkoVrankovic wrote:Morris was a horrific defender last season and Baynes sucked according to realgm

Interesting how things change

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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#210 » by LewisnotMiller » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:28 am

manlisten wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote:
manlisten wrote:I've got them winning 42 games. They essentially have a tank roster on par with the Grizzlies and OKC but not as cohesive as those squads. They would be a 15 seed in the West. I know people like to say it's only preseason but there were some MAJOR red flags in that game and they were all highly predictable. During the stretch where they went down 17 they couldn't manufacture any type of looks on offense and Kemba/Kanter were getting abused on defense every single trip down the court. And this was against the Charlotte Hornets who have the most random assortment of names since Hinkie's Sixers. Stevens seems to be running the same system as last year with his center dictating the offense above the break. This made me realize how much of a crutch Horford was for him because Kanter and Williams aren't equipped for that role whatsoever. They are going to have to scratch and claw for any wins, absolutely nothing is coming easy for that team.

Sent from my Pixel XL using RealGM mobile app


Wait...you're suggesting being east or west makes a 20 game difference in record?


Slight exaggeration. But I'm not really sure they're better than Phoenix on paper. They don't have anyone as good as Booker or Ayton and Rubio would be better for that roster than Kemba.


Heh...lucky games aren't played on paper then.
If we were in a bar we could put a little wager on this, but since we're not, we can just agree to disagree and see how this looks at season end.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#211 » by manlisten » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:55 am

LewisnotMiller wrote:
manlisten wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote:
Wait...you're suggesting being east or west makes a 20 game difference in record?


Slight exaggeration. But I'm not really sure they're better than Phoenix on paper. They don't have anyone as good as Booker or Ayton and Rubio would be better for that roster than Kemba.


Heh...lucky games aren't played on paper then.
If we were in a bar we could put a little wager on this, but since we're not, we can just agree to disagree and see how this looks at season end.


It's 2020 man :lol:. What's the wager?
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#212 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:39 am

well kemba is older and (slightly?) worse than Kyrie

and well that front court of the Celtics is pretty garbage.

I think they are still playoff calibre but Tatum has got to take that next step (or Jaylen Brown does) for them to be a real threat.


they aren't exposed - they got worse talent to replace the previous regime's talent. thats basketball sometimes.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#213 » by VDT » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:16 am

AussieCeltic wrote:
VDT wrote:Noone expects the Celtics to do much this year so they cant really be exposed.

However Ainge should take some blame for the Celtics current situation. The Bucks, the Lakers and the Sixers started their rebuild at the same time as the Celtics and they are comfortably better right now despite the fact that the Celtics started with much more assets. The Nets started even later and with no picks and they are better. Even the Magic that have been run terribly in the past years might have a better future. Even the Raptors that were going nowhere managed to build a contender.

Now some of it is bad luck, if Durant was more competitive and signed with the Celtics things would be different. Bu some of it is also on Ainge, who seems quite conservative in his moves and i am not talking about the trades only. He chose Olynyk instead of Giannis. He decided not to tank even though he didn't know how high the Nets picks would be and even though an IT led team of roleplayers had no future.

The team he constructed last year had no chemistry and part of the blame is on Ainge.

And the larger picture is that in all these years of the rebuild the Celtics never came particularly close to acquiring a franchise player, something that the Bucks, the Sixers and the Lakers have already done. Meanwhile Ainge never tried to risk anything (tank or a trade) to get one.


Wait... if all those teams started their rebuilds at the same time, surely the Celtics have had the most success over that entire period.
They’ve been to a game 7 in the ECF, playoffs every year and been consistently above average. I would have rather been a fan of the Celtics in the last decade over the other teams you mentioned. Sure they had better seasons last year and the imminent future looks better - but so did the Celtics only just a few years ago. For all we know Giannis leaves in a few years, Lebron declines massively or embiid gets injured... who really knows? The nba changes that fast. All I do know is the past and the Celtics have been better than all those teams


The Celtics might have been better for most of the years but they were never close to a title or even acquiring a franchise player. Detroit have also been better for most of the years but its funs are not very happy with their situation.

Being better for a few years, but still irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, is no the goal of a rebuilding team. The bottom line is that teams like the Bucks, the Sixers and the Celtics are closer to a title now and in the foreseeable future than the Celtics have ever been since their rebuild started. And they all started with much fewer assets than Boston
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#214 » by DCRYsing89 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:02 am

Blaze4G wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Froob wrote:People really in this thread roasting Ainge for not trading his picks and young players for guys like George, Butler and Kawhi who have already jumped ship twice?


So you're admitting your uber GM, uber coach, uber team history and culture can't convince a single star player to want to stay? Ouch.

Philly didn't convince Butler to stay...Whats your point? Ever thought players sometimes just want to play in a particular city or for a particular team no matter how good a team history has been, how good their coach or GM are? Shocking right?

If someone offered you the same pay and job you're doing now with a company based in Northern Russia, company has been around for 200 years, won awards 100 years running for the best management globally, best work environment, etc, would that make you take the job and leave your family and friends behind? Thought so.

Boston = Siberia

Glad I am not the only one seeing this :lol:
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#215 » by LewisnotMiller » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:07 am

manlisten wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote:
manlisten wrote:
Slight exaggeration. But I'm not really sure they're better than Phoenix on paper. They don't have anyone as good as Booker or Ayton and Rubio would be better for that roster than Kemba.


Heh...lucky games aren't played on paper then.
If we were in a bar we could put a little wager on this, but since we're not, we can just agree to disagree and see how this looks at season end.


It's 2020 man :lol:. What's the wager?


Betting without a beer seems weird (then again, I'm old). But if ya have a suggestion??
I'd spot you say...ten games since Boston is in the East?
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#216 » by robbie84 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:59 am

Black Mage wrote:
The Comedian wrote:Damn, Al kind of confirming that if he had known the team would get Kemba that he would stayed. That hurts a bit to read. He already had committed to the Sixers though, i respect that he wouldn't back out of a deal. Sixers fans will love him, outside of his strange inability to make bunnies.

Also, our boards incredibly reliable insider kept hinting late in the season that Al had no interest in playing with Kyrie again. Between these comments and what his sister said, safe to say reload was correct.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/10/09/al-horford-finds-hope-in-philly-after-celtics-crash/

As far as on the court, it’s certain Horford wasn’t interested in playing another hand from the same deck. I asked him if his decision would have been different if Irving had remained.

“I’m not sure that has anything to do with it for me,” Horford said. “I just think that if Kyrie would have stayed, I don’t know if it would have worked. There would have had to be some major changes as far as players, because it was just clear that the group that we had just wasn’t going to be able to coexist.”

And what about if he’d known Kemba Walker was coming. Horford paused.

“I don’t want to get caught up in the past,” he said, “but, yeah, that would have been totally different"


Not saying your take is wrong, but I don't think that last part is clear at all. It could just as easily have been Horford saying the team would be totally different with Kemba instead of Kyrie and Rozier. Could go either way.


It's confusing at first, but I think the summary is:
*Al is saying that he/the Celtics thought Kyrie was leaving, and therefore without another star there he wouldn't be able to stay because he wanted a ring.
*He's also saying that it would mean a lot of changes if Kyrie was going to stay because Kyrie must not have gotten along with much of the team.
So either way it wasn't looking good for him to return.

The flipside is that had he known Kyrie would simply be replaced by Kemba, then it would have been a completely different scenario- but he'd already given his word to the 76ers.

I think this further confirms that Kyrie staying meant lots of unhappy Celtics. Not sure if that includes Al but from this interview I think Al associates Kyrie with drama.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#217 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:34 am

Black Mage wrote:
The Comedian wrote:Damn, Al kind of confirming that if he had known the team would get Kemba that he would stayed. That hurts a bit to read. He already had committed to the Sixers though, i respect that he wouldn't back out of a deal. Sixers fans will love him, outside of his strange inability to make bunnies.

Also, our boards incredibly reliable insider kept hinting late in the season that Al had no interest in playing with Kyrie again. Between these comments and what his sister said, safe to say reload was correct.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/10/09/al-horford-finds-hope-in-philly-after-celtics-crash/

As far as on the court, it’s certain Horford wasn’t interested in playing another hand from the same deck. I asked him if his decision would have been different if Irving had remained.

“I’m not sure that has anything to do with it for me,” Horford said. “I just think that if Kyrie would have stayed, I don’t know if it would have worked. There would have had to be some major changes as far as players, because it was just clear that the group that we had just wasn’t going to be able to coexist.”

And what about if he’d known Kemba Walker was coming. Horford paused.

“I don’t want to get caught up in the past,” he said, “but, yeah, that would have been totally different"


Not saying your take is wrong, but I don't think that last part is clear at all. It could just as easily have been Horford saying the team would be totally different with Kemba instead of Kyrie and Rozier. Could go either way.


I agree with you and I said as much on the Celtics sub....all he’s saying is it may have been different if he knew that, not that it would have made him come back- perhaps he considers it more.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#218 » by The_Hater » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:06 pm

niQ wrote:Image


I would bet a lot of money that the Pistons and Hawks don’t finish ahead of the Raps. Heck the Hawks will be in the running for the leagues worst defensive team. Their defensive talent is horrible.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#219 » by LloydFree » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:23 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Blaze4G wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
So you're admitting your uber GM, uber coach, uber team history and culture can't convince a single star player to want to stay? Ouch.

Philly didn't convince Butler to stay...Whats your point? Ever thought players sometimes just want to play in a particular city or for a particular team no matter how good a team history has been, how good their coach or GM are? Shocking right?

If someone offered you the same pay and job you're doing now with a company based in Northern Russia, company has been around for 200 years, won awards 100 years running for the best management globally, best work environment, etc, would that make you take the job and leave your family and friends behind? Thought so.


There's no clear answer as to which side didn't want the other. There are just as many reports that Jimmy would have stayed, but Sixers didn't offer the money or want him to. So bad comparison.

It cracks me up to see that there are people who actually believe that Jimmy Butler turned down a 5 year 191 million dollar contract offer.
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Re: Celtics exposed? 

Post#220 » by KFL » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:27 pm

wow one preseason game and already the bashing. That must be a record

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