China and the NBA/day 11/ Lebron weighs in

[MrDollarBills]

Steve Kerr's brother in law is a Chinese history professor, but yeah keep playing dumb.

This is really quite the hill you've chosen to die on.

[JunkYardDog6ix]

Bull.

How informed do you have be to say, "Oppressive Communist regimes are bad. Harvesting organs from ethnoreligious minorities is bad. Attacking peaceful protesters with uniformed and ununiformed state-sponsered thugs are bad."?

He has no problem running his mouth when there are no consequences.

Yeah, what Kerr should have said instead was, "Exactly like President Trump, who promised Xi that he would not speak out in support of the HK protests, and who has banned US diplomats from discussing this topic, I too will not speak out against China at this time."

Feel better?

It's amazing how these dudes want coaches and players to make statements like this, but they cry like bitches when Popovich and Kerr tell the truth about Donald Trump, when Adam Silver wants to give women equal opportunity, or the players speak out against police brutality.

They don't care about China, they don't care that Trump is a racist lunatic, they don't want women to be treated as equals, and they want Black players to shut up about police killing us with impunity. This is the truth of the matter and why they're going on about this.

A pack of **** ing frauds.

No they just want people to stop being hypocrites and only speak out when it fits their anti-trump agenda

[Arco Thunder]

As I clearly stated, I don't blame Kerr for not speaking on it, but you insinuated Kerr has no idea whats happening and didn't want to speak on it for that reason, and I don't believe that is the reason he didn't want to speak on it.

I don't think Kerr didn't know what was happening but it's not a simple topic at all when you look at the history of the region and why the CCP are outraged at having their sovereignty questioned. So regardless if the NBA told everyone to zip it (which I believe they did), I don't find fault in him not wanting to wade into that discussion if he doesn't have all the details outside of "China bad, free Hong Kong".

Yea, and I just don't buy that. This has been a massive story in the NBA and Kerr is not a dumb guy. Any reasonable person would look into something that could directly effect their job.

Is he an expert? I doubt it, but I'd be shocked if he didn't know enough. The "I don't know" bit is more of an easy out for him, and thats fine, but lets call it like it is.

He is aware of the ongoing controversy but that is much different than fully understanding what is going on in China and what these protesters are fighting for.

Just because someone is comfortable making comments about injustices in their own country does NOT mean they must then also comment on every injustice in the world or they are a "hypocrite". Kerr has lived in the US for many years and fully understands its laws, culture, and history so he feels he can make a educated political statement on what he feels is right or wrong.

This hypocrisy angle is just a desperate attempt by conservatives to invalidate every future political statement he or anyone else in the NBA makes.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't think Kerr didn't know what was happening but it's not a simple topic at all when you look at the history of the region and why the CCP are outraged at having their sovereignty questioned. So regardless if the NBA told everyone to zip it (which I believe they did), I don't find fault in him not wanting to wade into that discussion if he doesn't have all the details outside of "China bad, free Hong Kong".

Yea, and I just don't buy that. This has been a massive story in the NBA and Kerr is not a dumb guy. Any reasonable person would look into something that could directly effect their job.

Is he an expert? I doubt it, but I'd be shocked if he didn't know enough. The "I don't know" bit is more of an easy out for him, and thats fine, but lets call it like it is.

He is aware of the ongoing controversy but that is much different than fully understanding what is going on in China and what these protesters are fighting for.

Just because someone is comfortable making comments about injustices in their own country does NOT mean they must then also comment on every injustice in the world or they are a "hypocrite". Kerr has lived in the US for many years and fully understands its laws, culture, and history so he feels he can make a educated political statement on what he feels is right or wrong.

This hypocrisy angle is just a desperate attempt by conservatives to invalidate every future political statement he or anyone else in the NBA makes.

Pretty much.

[fbalmeida]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

[scrabbarista]

Uh oh! Somebody's making "wrong moves and improper comments!" No panda for you! Lol.

But seriously, I remember reading about this Prague mayor when he was elected last year. He seems like a badass. Not only standing up to Beijing, but doing it even when his own federal government isn't.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/10/11/2003723758

I'd be interested in hearing any Czech (or European, if relevant) perspectives on this Zdenek Hrib of the Pirate Party. Love him? Hate him?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I don't think Kerr didn't know what was happening but it's not a simple topic at all when you look at the history of the region and why the CCP are outraged at having their sovereignty questioned. So regardless if the NBA told everyone to zip it (which I believe they did), I don't find fault in him not wanting to wade into that discussion if he doesn't have all the details outside of "China bad, free Hong Kong".

Yea, and I just don't buy that. This has been a massive story in the NBA and Kerr is not a dumb guy. Any reasonable person would look into something that could directly effect their job.

Is he an expert? I doubt it, but I'd be shocked if he didn't know enough. The "I don't know" bit is more of an easy out for him, and thats fine, but lets call it like it is.

He is aware of the ongoing controversy but that is much different than fully understanding what is going on in China and what these protesters are fighting for.

Just because someone is comfortable making comments about injustices in their own country does NOT mean they must then also comment on every injustice in the world or they are a "hypocrite". Kerr has lived in the US for many years and fully understands its laws, culture, and history so he feels he can make a educated political statement on what he feels is right or wrong.

This hypocrisy angle is just a desperate attempt by conservatives to invalidate every future political statement he or anyone else in the NBA makes.

I don't really think Kerr is a hypocrite for not speaking up on it. I do think he is lying about not having knowledge on whats happening. I think he knows a good bit about whats going on but was told to not speak about it. As I said, I have no issues with this, I'm just calling it out.

As for the hypocrite thing, if you think only conservatives are hypocrites, then you are keeping your head in the sand. All politicians are hypocrites, left, right, I don't care, they will all say what they think people want to hear while deflecting from their own thing.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Yeah, what Kerr should have said instead was, "Exactly like President Trump, who promised Xi that he would not speak out in support of the HK protests, and who has banned US diplomats from discussing this topic, I too will not speak out against China at this time."

Feel better?

It's amazing how these dudes want coaches and players to make statements like this, but they cry like bitches when Popovich and Kerr tell the truth about Donald Trump, when Adam Silver wants to give women equal opportunity, or the players speak out against police brutality.

They don't care about China, they don't care that Trump is a racist lunatic, they don't want women to be treated as equals, and they want Black players to shut up about police killing us with impunity. This is the truth of the matter and why they're going on about this.

A pack of **** ing frauds.

No they just want people to stop being hypocrites and only speak out when it fits their anti-trump agenda

There's some irony in people using China's crackdown on criticism against the Chinese government to criticize American citizens for speaking out about their own government.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

Its truly amazing to me how many people believe "freedom of speech" means you can say absolutely anything you want with no consequences.

[G R E Y]

We've all been talking about this issue here for several days now, and there's not a single consensus. Lots of absolute positions and heated exchanges here, yet none of us have a thing to lose and none of us will be held to any account that affects us, our employers, colleagues, and those in the larger sphere, in this case, players.

Have they been consistently commenting on foreign issues and just haven't been as vocal about China? Maybe I missed it.

It's clear by the common responses of most players (except Harden who went full pucker mode) that some sort of conversations have gone on about how to handle it. On the 7th, around the time between the first and second NBA statements, a Spurs spokesperson said Pop wouldn't be available for a post-practice interview. I don't recall the last time that's happened. Then the second statement on the 8th was released, one that outlined the NBA's position on supporting not punishing free speech - so he must have gotten the ok of the majority of the owners to do so.

It's clear that Silver would be the spear of the message - as he should be, and others, while being supported by the league to speak out, are making their choices as it is a sensitive issue unfolding in real time that the league is walking a fine line on, one it hasn't faced before.

I'd love it if there were a collective public "See ya!" and middle finger salute on the way out, but I have the comfort of not being responsible for decisions that take into account multiple interests like the NBA does. The one I can make is being more aware of what I buy.

[G R E Y]

That feel when you agree with Trump

Great timing indeed on that Trump tweet against Steve Kerr. The Kurds, our main ally in Syria and in Iraq during the five-year war against ISIS, have just been abandoned by Trump and left to the Turks--who have been responsible for two genocides over the last 100 years (one against the Armenians, and one against the Kurds). Chances are, many Kurds will die over the next 72 hours--did I mention they supplied most of the ground troops (and ground reconnaissance) during our war against ISIS?

But yeah, our President really showed Coach Kerr for nOt StAnDiNg Up tO cHiNa!!!

Seriously, man, most of the posters here couldn't care less about China--probably couldn't find it on a **** map until this week--and are just posting because they've been feeling butt-hurt by athletes (particularly Black athletes) talking about domestic issues related to the BLM movement, the Me-Too movement, the looming Trump impeachment, etc., etc.

Trump needs to STFU. A real president would be working on how to fix this instead of talking **** from the sidelines. Of course, he's fully incapable of fixing anything so I guess I can't have high expectations. Better for him to stay out of it in fact or else it'll get worse.

So bone spur draft dodging, privilege inheriting Trump criticizes Air Force graduate Pop and, Kerr, grandson of rescuer of genocide survivors and son of a man assassinated by terrorists. Right.

And, of course, not a word from Trump about the HK protests since he agreed to shut up about it as negotiations between US and China continue. Notice, too, he singled out the two coaches who have called him out directly, and not a word about Morey whose tweet got the whole thing rolling. And other than taking shots at Kerr and Pop for actually saying more on this issue than Trump himself, he went on to say that the NBA needs to take care of this themselves.

It was a self-serving message that ignored his own silence while taking a shot at those who call him out.

[dhsilv2]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

You really want to pay 100 bucks for a ticket to a game to have someone protesting next to you?

Look, I have the right to say a heck of a lot of things. I however self censor myself at work (maybe not as much as I should but still). I'm not going to common a female co worker's body or clothing. I'm not going to discuss if I went out drinking till 3am the night before. I'm also not going to shove my politics down their throats either. If someone asks, sure I might offer it up and sure I might make less aggressive and adamant statements, but again I'm going to be tactful.

This is how adults act. The reason so many people get annoyed with politics in sports is simply because people don't want politics in their entertainment. The nba should be aware of this and hopefully players and coaches keep their views limited. While sure some have been more expressive on issues they felt passionately about, I'm not sure where most athletes stand on any issue. I have zero idea where Pop stands on how to price metro area parking, how he wants to address taxes for roads with more and more cars going electric, is views on the 3 tier alcohol distribution system in most states, the illegality of shipping alcohol to Texas (he's a big wine guy so I'm rather sure he's got an opinion). It's ok I don't know these views from him and it's also OK that he has expressed his thoughts on our current president. He felt that was an issue he needed to speak on, great. He doesn't feel the need to discuss other issues, maybe he's just not as passionate about them? We're all allowed to be more or less passionate about some topics right? If I want to end AIDs am I a jerk for not talking as much about ending cancer or ALS?

[Cactus Jack]

Everyone Boycott

[scrabbarista]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

Man, I sympathize with the sentiment so much. I have to nitpick that NBA arenas aren't really "the public square," though. I don't think he/owners should be obligated to allow such statements within their arenas. I would just expect them to treat all political statements equally, so as to make it about the in-arena product and not the preservation of communist approval.

You're right about everything else. Self-censorship looks like the order of the day, and it should be crushed just like you say.

What's up with blocking reporters? I haven't heard about that yet.

[the sea duck]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

Its truly amazing to me how many people believe "freedom of speech" means you can say absolutely anything you want with no consequences.

The spirit of the law is that consequences don't come from the government based upon your views. In this case, consequences would be coming from a foreign government (indirectly) due to political views. Seems a worse infraction, no?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

Its truly amazing to me how many people believe "freedom of speech" means you can say absolutely anything you want with no consequences.

The spirit of the law is that consequences don't come from the government based upon your views. In this case, consequences would be coming from a foreign government (indirectly) due to political views. Seems a worse infraction, no?

Consequences can come from your employer.

I used this example earlier, but I don't anticipate everyone has read every post over this entire topic, so I'll reiterate.

Lets say you own a restaurant/bar, and you have a bartender who is getting in heated political debates with a bunch of customers and driving them off. Are you going to let this person ruin your business while saying "free speech is too important!" or are you going to tell them to stop talking politics/fire them?

[fbalmeida]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking of reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

Its truly amazing to me how many people believe "freedom of speech" means you can say absolutely anything you want with no consequences.

I'm not refusing to accept consequences that are attached to opinions. And there are perfectly reasonable terms for restrictions of speech, having to do with time, place, and manner. Nevertheless, I refuse to accept the expansion of the scope of censorship to a point where perfectly legitimate questions from CNN reporters are preemptively denied a response by NBA handlers.

[dhsilv2]

Yea, and I just don't buy that. This has been a massive story in the NBA and Kerr is not a dumb guy. Any reasonable person would look into something that could directly effect their job.

Is he an expert? I doubt it, but I'd be shocked if he didn't know enough. The "I don't know" bit is more of an easy out for him, and thats fine, but lets call it like it is.

He is aware of the ongoing controversy but that is much different than fully understanding what is going on in China and what these protesters are fighting for.

Just because someone is comfortable making comments about injustices in their own country does NOT mean they must then also comment on every injustice in the world or they are a "hypocrite". Kerr has lived in the US for many years and fully understands its laws, culture, and history so he feels he can make a educated political statement on what he feels is right or wrong.

This hypocrisy angle is just a desperate attempt by conservatives to invalidate every future political statement he or anyone else in the NBA makes.

I don't really think Kerr is a hypocrite for not speaking up on it. I do think he is lying about not having knowledge on whats happening. I think he knows a good bit about whats going on but was told to not speak about it. As I said, I have no issues with this, I'm just calling it out.

As for the hypocrite thing, if you think only conservatives are hypocrites, then you are keeping your head in the sand. All politicians are hypocrites, left, right, I don't care, they will all say what they think people want to hear while deflecting from their own thing.

How much do you have to know before you offer an opinion on something? I'm pretty well read on a lot of areas of science, but I'm not a scientist. I tend to avoid having a detailed discussion on say global warming, not because I don't have a wealthy of knowledge, but because I know enough to know how much I don't know. I might offer an opinion but I'd certainly not care to do it in THAT public a place. Conversely, I am both academically and professionally well trained in areas related to economics. I'm fairly willing to discuss that as I can speak as someone with at least the background to understand experts (economists which I am not) at a much more nuanced level.

It doesn't seem surprising for someone to feel they can communicate their dislike of a person's messages in terms of character as human interactions is both a key part of Kerr's career, but it is something we all do a great deal in our day to day lives. Especially when focused on a country they live in. So even if Kerr has an opinion and has done considerable reading on the topic of Hong Kong, that doesn't mean he feels he knows it well enough to speak on a national platform on his views. I'm willing to bet most American's don't feel they are well enough informed.

[RIP Kobe]

lol, not even mad. actually, i'm extremely happy. it was about time these people in their place.

they act like they're untouchable when they're on US soil. they are quick to form an opinion without knowing all the facts and the cycle continues since they have millions of people monitoring their every move. there's no consequences to their actions when they quickly share an opinion on social media due to their emotions at that time about a particular subject, even though most often times than not, they don't have a full understanding of what's going on.

they tried to speak against something they didn't fully understand (and neither do me, or you) and now they'll literally pay the price for it.

[fbalmeida]

With this debacle, the bug of self-censorship, specifically the suppression of public criticism of the PRC within the NBA, has peered its ugly head into the public square.

It needs to be crushed like a cockroach, immediately, impeccably, and without hesitation. Freedom of speech is too important.

If Adam Silver condones the recent blocking reporters when they ask legitimate questions, or kicking out fans with signs in support of Hong Kong protesters, he should resign.

You really want to pay 100 bucks for a ticket to a game to have someone protesting next to you?

Look, I have the right to say a heck of a lot of things. I however self censor myself at work (maybe not as much as I should but still). I'm not going to common a female co worker's body or clothing. I'm not going to discuss if I went out drinking till 3am the night before. I'm also not going to shove my politics down their throats either. If someone asks, sure I might offer it up and sure I might make less aggressive and adamant statements, but again I'm going to be tactful.

This is how adults act. The reason so many people get annoyed with politics in sports is simply because people don't want politics in their entertainment. The nba should be aware of this and hopefully players and coaches keep their views limited. While sure some have been more expressive on issues they felt passionately about, I'm not sure where most athletes stand on any issue. I have zero idea where Pop stands on how to price metro area parking, how he wants to address taxes for roads with more and more cars going electric, is views on the 3 tier alcohol distribution system in most states, the illegality of shipping alcohol to Texas (he's a big wine guy so I'm rather sure he's got an opinion). It's ok I don't know these views from him and it's also OK that he has expressed his thoughts on our current president. He felt that was an issue he needed to speak on, great. He doesn't feel the need to discuss other issues, maybe he's just not as passionate about them? We're all allowed to be more or less passionate about some topics right? If I want to end AIDs am I a jerk for not talking as much about ending cancer or ALS?

If someone asks... being the point. There must be a freedom to ask. Today, the NBA blocked a reporter from asking a legitimate question.