Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China

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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#141 » by Rockice_24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:08 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
durden_tyler wrote:So there is a chance that the NBA grows a spine and stands up against China?!

Go NBA, i think you are still the most progressive league out there, now you just need a leader (Maybe LeBron) to push Silver to do the right thing.


Lebron has been silent on this issue. This also isn't the NBA growing a spine and standing up to China. Why do you think the NBA has been getting blasted publicly over the past week. All we have seen so far is the Chinese government flexing its muscles and Adam Silver saying he's going to try his best to fix this relationship.

If the NBA was truly this super progressive league, they would've been the ones to end their relationship with China, not the other way around. NBA would be/will be in bed with China as long as they possibly can.


NBA is doing the right thing. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? NBA said they are backing free speech, why should they be expected to take it even further and cut all ties to a huge market? If China wants to cut them off fine but there is no reason for the NBA to intentionally hurt their business for a political statement. They did exactly what they needed to do, said they will not silence their employees, done nothing else to say.

Go ahead and try and repair the friendship it's smart business but they have done plenty by not caving. They put the ball in China's court. You want the NBA then we'll be there, you have an issue with free speech, peace. The NBA is huge in China so they want the NBA just as much as the NBA wants China.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#142 » by Knosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:21 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:The NBA is huge in China so they want the NBA just as much as the NBA wants China.


Why?
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#143 » by Rockice_24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:23 pm

Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:The NBA is huge in China so they want the NBA just as much as the NBA wants China.


Why?


Money. It's like taking the NFL from the US. People would be pissed.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#144 » by Knosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:25 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:The NBA is huge in China so they want the NBA just as much as the NBA wants China.


Why?


Money.


No. Zero Sum Game.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#145 » by Rockice_24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:28 pm

Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
Why?


Money.


No. Zero Sum Game.


NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#146 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:39 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
hey now, I said I wouldn't want the Rockets to fire him because I believe that he had good intentions behind it, and most important of all I find the idea that the CCP can dictate American free speech to be a non starter. But being objective here, his actions are a fireable offense because the fallout not only impacted the Rockets but it is being felt league wide. He put the entire league in a lose/lose situation.


I don't think so ... as long as he wasn't speaking as the GM of the Rockets he has a right to his own personal opinions as long as those opinions do not conflict with whatever personal morality and ethics are expected of him.

I mean if he tweeted that "shooting cops before they could shoot you was a good idea", he would be fired.

Now, maybe the Chinese government sees no difference, but that's not really the standard we as American's should be held to.


I 100% agree that he has a right to his own opinions and to express them. However, knowing the gravity of his situation, being the GM of a franchise who is heavily in bed with the Chinese Government, he clearly did not think rationally before tweeting that picture out.

I say this all the time, regardless if I agree with the person or not (and I agree with him): Freedom of speech always comes with consequences.


Of course it does, but like I've already said .... doing business in China is high-risk and we should judge our people by our standards - not the standards of a totalitarian state.

Fortunately the NBA has plenty of PR specialists and lawyers to try to figure out how to get out of this with the least amount of damage. From a political POV the fact the Chinese Government is even concerned what Daryl Morey says as a private person in another country ... shows how fragile they feel their hold on power is. We win by not allowing them to win.

Bottom line ... who wants this more? Who's going to miss this more?

Can Nike move even more of their production to other countries? Yes, I think they can.

I'd suggest Americans boycott Li-Ning if I thought anyone would care. :lol:
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#147 » by Knosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:41 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
Money.


No. Zero Sum Game.


NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.


In your mind, who is making the call on whether or not the NBA is banned in China tomorrow and how exactly are those people benefiting from it today?
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#148 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
Money.


No. Zero Sum Game.


NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.


I agree, and sometimes you have to test how much the other side values a relationship. Respect just like business is a two-way street.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#149 » by PD28 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 pm

Michael Jordan wrote:Wiggins is reportedly devastated that his next max contract will be 10% less

Report: Wiggins will reportedly put 10% less effort on the court due to cap lowering.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#150 » by Rockice_24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:00 pm

Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
No. Zero Sum Game.


NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.


In your mind, who is making the call on whether or not the NBA is banned in China tomorrow and how exactly are those people benefiting from it today?


I suppose China gets the final say since the NBA would be dumb to just pull the plug.

It's a two way street both sides are making money. Why is that so hard to understand. You don't just take away a $4B dollar industry and expect no economic impact.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#151 » by Rockice_24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
No. Zero Sum Game.


NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.


I agree, and sometimes you have to test how much the other side values a relationship. Respect just like business is a two-way street.


Exactly. It probably hurts the NBA more then China but to suggest it has no effect on them makes no sense to me. Fact is they don't want to lose the NBA either but have to take their stance as well. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out for sure.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#152 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:08 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I don't think so ... as long as he wasn't speaking as the GM of the Rockets he has a right to his own personal opinions as long as those opinions do not conflict with whatever personal morality and ethics are expected of him.

I mean if he tweeted that "shooting cops before they could shoot you was a good idea", he would be fired.

Now, maybe the Chinese government sees no difference, but that's not really the standard we as American's should be held to.


I 100% agree that he has a right to his own opinions and to express them. However, knowing the gravity of his situation, being the GM of a franchise who is heavily in bed with the Chinese Government, he clearly did not think rationally before tweeting that picture out.

I say this all the time, regardless if I agree with the person or not (and I agree with him): Freedom of speech always comes with consequences.


Of course it does, but like I've already said .... doing business in China is high-risk and we should judge our people by our standards - not the standards of a totalitarian state.

Fortunately the NBA has plenty of PR specialists and lawyers to try to figure out how to get out of this with the least amount of damage. From a political POV the fact the Chinese Government is even concerned what Daryl Morey says as a private person in another country ... shows how fragile they feel their hold on power is. We win by not allowing them to win.

Bottom line ... who wants this more? Who's going to miss this more?

Can Nike move even more of their production to other countries? Yes, I think they can.

I'd suggest Americans boycott Li-Ning if I thought anyone would care. :lol:


I agree, and by our standards what he did was fine. But when doing international business it's not a one way street.

And 100% correct. Their temper tantrum shows just how weak the CCP really is, which is why I'm glad Adam Silver said that he defends Morey's right to free speech, triggering them even further.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#153 » by TheDoors24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:30 pm

paulbball wrote:
TheDoors24 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Honestly, Darryl Morey really does deserve to be fired for this. I wouldn't want the Rockets to do it for several reasons, but he really did some serious damage here.


100%. The league is going to feel this impact for a while and i also think the Rockets will be impacted. Will the owner want to invest as much if he lost all that sweet sweet china money?


100x

This hurts the owners so much.

1. It decreases revenue for all teams. 10-15% in revenue of last year's $7.4B is $740m to 1.11 billion in projected revenue losses. Each owner is going to be short on average 25m in revenue due to one tweet, impacting the larger teams more on average. Rockets are absolutely hosed though since they are blacklisted from broadcast/merchandise sale in China right now.

2. It decreases the owner/franchise cut of the revenue by a greater percentage. The cap shrink will increases luxury tax, plus cause the player's share of the revenue to exceed the targeted 49-51%. Unless negotiated, this will further cut into the owner's share. The owners/franchises are paying for the fixed operational costs in the first place. Whatever their operational income will be shrink beyond the projected 10-15%. Half the teams in the league aren't making money in the first place (ignoring the rise in their team valuation of course).

3. Plus, this hurts players drafted in 2016 who have/are signing an extension one year early and players who have signed for max contracts that do not go into effect until 2020, 2021 or later. Their salaries aren't fixed on $, but are rather fixed as a % of the max cap.

I believe 3 players are affected by this. Contracts that will start this year are number locked.

Damian Lillard: 20-30m+ in damages starting in 2021
Ben Simmons: 17-25m+ in damages starting in 2020
Jamal Murray: 17-25m+ in damages starting in 2020


The stars are going to get theirs. The impacted ones will be the rest of the players at the bottom taking way smaller contracts.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#154 » by TheDoors24 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:30 pm

PD28 wrote:
Michael Jordan wrote:Wiggins is reportedly devastated that his next max contract will be 10% less

Report: Wiggins will reportedly put 10% less effort on the court due to cap lowering.


Another 10% less effort and he'll be a chair on the court.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#155 » by Knosh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:
Knosh wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
NBA China is a $4B dollar industry. Are you are suggesting they don't benefit from that? It's the biggest sport in the country.


In your mind, who is making the call on whether or not the NBA is banned in China tomorrow and how exactly are those people benefiting from it today?


I suppose China gets the final say since the NBA would be dumb to just pull the plug.

It's a two way street both sides are making money. Why is that so hard to understand. You don't just take away a $4B dollar industry and expect no economic impact.


Yeah ok. Initially I was wondering if I actually missed something, but you made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what you are talking about, so I don't think there is any point in continuing this. Have a good one.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#156 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 pm

TheDoors24 wrote:
paulbball wrote:
TheDoors24 wrote:
100%. The league is going to feel this impact for a while and i also think the Rockets will be impacted. Will the owner want to invest as much if he lost all that sweet sweet china money?


100x

This hurts the owners so much.

1. It decreases revenue for all teams. 10-15% in revenue of last year's $7.4B is $740m to 1.11 billion in projected revenue losses. Each owner is going to be short on average 25m in revenue due to one tweet, impacting the larger teams more on average. Rockets are absolutely hosed though since they are blacklisted from broadcast/merchandise sale in China right now.

2. It decreases the owner/franchise cut of the revenue by a greater percentage. The cap shrink will increases luxury tax, plus cause the player's share of the revenue to exceed the targeted 49-51%. Unless negotiated, this will further cut into the owner's share. The owners/franchises are paying for the fixed operational costs in the first place. Whatever their operational income will be shrink beyond the projected 10-15%. Half the teams in the league aren't making money in the first place (ignoring the rise in their team valuation of course).

3. Plus, this hurts players drafted in 2016 who have/are signing an extension one year early and players who have signed for max contracts that do not go into effect until 2020, 2021 or later. Their salaries aren't fixed on $, but are rather fixed as a % of the max cap.

I believe 3 players are affected by this. Contracts that will start this year are number locked.

Damian Lillard: 20-30m+ in damages starting in 2021
Ben Simmons: 17-25m+ in damages starting in 2020
Jamal Murray: 17-25m+ in damages starting in 2020


The stars are going to get theirs. The impacted ones will be the rest of the players at the bottom taking way smaller contracts.


Well, yeah, unless the rank & file decide to depose Paul and James from union leadership. According to the Coon faq, if there's a serious drop in the BRI, the solution will need to be decided by a modification to the CBA. If there's something less drastic it will be handled by an adjustment to the cap which will as you point out mean less money for the rank & file.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#157 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:35 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I 100% agree that he has a right to his own opinions and to express them. However, knowing the gravity of his situation, being the GM of a franchise who is heavily in bed with the Chinese Government, he clearly did not think rationally before tweeting that picture out.

I say this all the time, regardless if I agree with the person or not (and I agree with him): Freedom of speech always comes with consequences.


Of course it does, but like I've already said .... doing business in China is high-risk and we should judge our people by our standards - not the standards of a totalitarian state.

Fortunately the NBA has plenty of PR specialists and lawyers to try to figure out how to get out of this with the least amount of damage. From a political POV the fact the Chinese Government is even concerned what Daryl Morey says as a private person in another country ... shows how fragile they feel their hold on power is. We win by not allowing them to win.

Bottom line ... who wants this more? Who's going to miss this more?

Can Nike move even more of their production to other countries? Yes, I think they can.

I'd suggest Americans boycott Li-Ning if I thought anyone would care. :lol:


I agree, and by our standards what he did was fine. But when doing international business it's not a one way street.

And 100% correct. Their temper tantrum shows just how weak the CCP really is, which is why I'm glad Adam Silver said that he defends Morey's right to free speech, triggering them even further.


Probably best we figure out how we as Americans and American businesses are going to handle external pressures like this, then, because if we don't we'll end up living by the laws of the worst nation in the world.

There is a line between private communications and corporate we need to understand and protect.

Let's hope the NBA's China initiative survives, because if it doesn't - the next company thrust in to this situation may not be so brave to stand up for principles over $$$.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#158 » by Chris_SoCal » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:38 am

I am reading this differently than many of you. I think there is a good fight behind the scenes on making money vs doing the right thing.

I think this was put out there to keep owners in line and reminding them what the stakes are. For most owners that 10-15% is probably all or more than the profit they usually earn.
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#159 » by jimmy_smith » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 am

PD28 wrote:
Michael Jordan wrote:Wiggins is reportedly devastated that his next max contract will be 10% less

Report: Wiggins will reportedly put 10% less effort on the court due to cap lowering.

10% less of 0 is still 0
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Re: Teams are prepping scenarios where the cap is 10-15% lower due to the NBA situation with China 

Post#160 » by jimmy_smith » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:46 am

Joke a side.
If this continue, the next CBA will be interesting.
Players will demand more than 50/50 for compensation and they will have leverage, too.
Cause It's the management side that f*ck up.
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