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Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:11 pm
by E-Balla
AD yes, KD no.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:17 pm
by The_Hater
If we're talking strictly passing and creating for teammates, then Giannis is the clear leader in this group. But if we're talking about being an all-around playmaker it's KD. That guy can get a quality shot for himself practically on command.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:46 pm
by PistolPeteJR
DCRYsing89 wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
Impuniti wrote:KD is a vastly better playmaker and it's not close. AD and Giannis are both below mediocre to even matter whose better.

Do you have the stats to back this up? KD is a mediocre playmaker. He had a serie last year in OKC where he had more turnovers than assists.

There’s turnovers from scoring and playmaking, he scores a lot, so his turnovers will accumulate from non-playmaking related incedents.
Assist to TO ratio as such is not a great way to measure playmaking

Although I veiw Giannis as better than KD, KD definetly is a solid playmaker.
Like in comparison to most non-guards, he is well above average.

Giannis could run point I feel though.

AD, nah, there’s a reason he is more effective offball.


Just to clarify bolded, you have Giannis as better than KD as a playmaker, or in general?

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:09 pm
by DCRYsing89
PistolPeteJR wrote:
DCRYsing89 wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:Do you have the stats to back this up? KD is a mediocre playmaker. He had a serie last year in OKC where he had more turnovers than assists.

There’s turnovers from scoring and playmaking, he scores a lot, so his turnovers will accumulate from non-playmaking related incedents.
Assist to TO ratio as such is not a great way to measure playmaking

Although I veiw Giannis as better than KD, KD definetly is a solid playmaker.
Like in comparison to most non-guards, he is well above average.

Giannis could run point I feel though.

AD, nah, there’s a reason he is more effective offball.


Just to clarify bolded, you have Giannis as better than KD as a playmaker, or in general?

Damn that’s a tough question,
I like Giannis a lot more, and feel he is definetly better than 1leg KD this season,
Though going back I still think you can justify Giannis over him last season (personally I have him over KD)

But I was talking about as a playmaker with Giannis being better, in that statemenT.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:16 pm
by Scalabrine
This is an opinion so I don't think there is a true or false claim.

...I voted no, btw.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:39 pm
by PistolPeteJR
DCRYsing89 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
DCRYsing89 wrote:There’s turnovers from scoring and playmaking, he scores a lot, so his turnovers will accumulate from non-playmaking related incedents.
Assist to TO ratio as such is not a great way to measure playmaking

Although I veiw Giannis as better than KD, KD definetly is a solid playmaker.
Like in comparison to most non-guards, he is well above average.

Giannis could run point I feel though.

AD, nah, there’s a reason he is more effective offball.


Just to clarify bolded, you have Giannis as better than KD as a playmaker, or in general?

Damn that’s a tough question,
I like Giannis a lot more, and feel he is definetly better than 1leg KD this season,
Though going back I still think you can justify Giannis over him last season (personally I have him over KD)

But I was talking about as a playmaker with Giannis being better, in that statemenT.


How can you have Giannis over a healthy KD last season? What is the justification there? From a playmaking standpoint, they are not that far apart at all. From a defensive standpoint, while Giannis can be an anchor on that end and is a better defender for sure, KD is no scrub there, particularly the last 2-3 seasons. From a scoring standpoint, this is where it is not even close at all, and it is in KD’s favour. They aren’t even remotely close in the same tier.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 pm
by Drygon
PistolPeteJR wrote:
DCRYsing89 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
Just to clarify bolded, you have Giannis as better than KD as a playmaker, or in general?

Damn that’s a tough question,
I like Giannis a lot more, and feel he is definetly better than 1leg KD this season,
Though going back I still think you can justify Giannis over him last season (personally I have him over KD)

But I was talking about as a playmaker with Giannis being better, in that statemenT.


How can you have Giannis over a healthy KD last season? What is the justification there? From a playmaking standpoint, they are not that far apart at all. From a defensive standpoint, while Giannis can be an anchor on that end and is a better defender for sure, KD is no scrub there, particularly the last 2-3 seasons. From a scoring standpoint, this is where it is not even close at all, and it is in KD’s favour. They aren’t even remotely close in the same tier.


KD is also several tiers above Giannis as a shooter.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:01 pm
by HurricaneKid
This is insanity. Toronto didn't guard BroLo out to 25 and defended Giannis with the best wing defender possibly ever with a recent DPoY helping him at the rim and somehow one of the best seasons the league has ever seen has been largely deleted.

Giannis is a FAR better passer than either. It's not really all that close. His length and ability to get to the rim REQUIRES help and he is an creative assassin on the pass. Probably not at LeBrons level but he is getting there. KD is a better scorer but puts his head down and rarely makes anything but the easy pass. AD... that's just absurd. He isn't awful but it's not really a strength as compared to KD much less GA. He still struggles near the hoop with multiple defenders. His strength is playing off other playmakers. He will be outstanding with LBJ but he just isn't a guy you give the ball to and get out of the way.

Unless you believe playmaking is simply ability to score including shooting from distance this isn't remotely competitive. Also, an agent building up his guy isn't really as much an opinion as a statement designed to alter others' opinions.

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Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 pm
by SeniorWalker
HurricaneKid wrote:This is insanity. Toronto didn't guard BroLo out to 25 and defended Giannis with the best wing defender possibly ever with a recent DPoY helping him at the rim and somehow one of the best seasons the league has ever seen has been largely deleted.

Giannis is a FAR better passer than either. It's not really all that close. His length and ability to get to the rim REQUIRES help and he is an creative assassin on the pass. Probably not at LeBrons level but he is getting there. KD is a better scorer but puts his head down and rarely makes anything but the easy pass. AD... that's just absurd. He isn't awful but it's not really a strength as compared to KD much less GA. He still struggles near the hoop with multiple defenders. His strength is playing off other playmakers. He will be outstanding with LBJ but he just isn't a guy you give the ball to and get out of the way.

Unless you believe playmaking is simply ability to score including shooting from distance this isn't remotely competitive. Also, an agent building up his guy isn't really as much an opinion as a statement designed to alter others' opinions.

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app

This completely. Especially with AD: What playmaking are people thinking they are seeing with him? He's not an offensive initiator at all which is partly why he's not been carrying teams as far as one of his supposed talent level might be expected to. As dominant as he can be in some respects, his offensive impact is limited without another playmaker. AD will never be the best player in the league for this reason; he's not carrying anyone to a title. He's really a souped-up #2 option to be frank. Which isn't a bad thing, but he's just not capable of being an anchor like Giannis where you can just dump him the ball and get points off dunks and kick outs until the defense shifts on him.

Giannis may not yet have a reliable jumpshot, but he does not need anyone to set up his offense, and playmakes for his entire team. The bucks current problem is literally 1) his unreliable jumpshot and 2) they dont have a secondary ballhandler for when Giannis gets triple/quadruple teamed, and the offense stalls. (Actually those should be reversed because Giannis will still need a reliable #2 even with a solid jumpshot if he wants to win consistently).

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:25 pm
by Duke4life831
Has AD ever been considered a good playmaker though? I mean he has a career average of 2.1 assists a game to 1.9 TOs. Last year was the first year he ever averaged more than 2 assists a game. Then if you want to consider playmaking for himself as well into the conversation. Well 69% of his shots are assisted on, that's really high for a superstar player.

Giannis on the other hand, his career assist average is twice as AD with 4.1 assists and last year he averaged 6 assists a game. Giannis is also assisted on only 46% of his shots.

So Giannis creates for himself more often (and at a higher efficiency), while also creating for others at a higher rate as well. I also thought playmaking was one of AD's biggest weaknesses.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:35 pm
by IAMZOOTED2
Look, Giannis takes this by default. At least for last year. He handles the rock more often and racks up more assists, too. Looking like that will be the case moving into this fresh season for a repeat

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:41 am
by Amare_1_Knicks
AD is clearly behind KD and Giannis, though he has become a good passer in his own right. The numbers give the edge to KD and he certainly has more at his disposal because he can score from anywhere and let his passing game work off of that. I think Giannis is a more gifted natural passer though, fwiw. I see more remarkable, spectacular passes from him and you get the feel he could average 7-8 no problem.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:18 am
by triple_threat
Impuniti wrote:KD is a vastly better playmaker and it's not close. AD and Giannis are both below mediocre to even matter whose better.


Bs. Check him out on OKC.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:19 am
by triple_threat
Johnny Firpo wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
Impuniti wrote:KD is a vastly better playmaker and it's not close. AD and Giannis are both below mediocre to even matter whose better.

Do you have the stats to back this up? KD is a mediocre playmaker. He had a serie last year in OKC where he had more turnovers than assists.


Remember, playmaking includes scoring too, but I get your point.


I think youre missing the point. Rebounding and stealing are also playmaking.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:31 am
by og15
GregOden wrote:Giannis has bigger hands than Kawhi, they allow him to easily control the ball and recover while trying things off the dribble. Whereas AD's manlet hands really limit his ballhandling.

Man, sometimes I wonder how all these guards and small guys can even dribble the ball with their small hands :wink:

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:34 am
by GregOden
og15 wrote:
GregOden wrote:Giannis has bigger hands than Kawhi, they allow him to easily control the ball and recover while trying things off the dribble. Whereas AD's manlet hands really limit his ballhandling.

Man, sometimes I wonder how all these guards and small guys can even dribble the ball with their small hands :wink:


Better hand to eye coordination due to shorter paths for nervous system :D

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:53 am
by dhsilv2
og15 wrote:
GregOden wrote:Giannis has bigger hands than Kawhi, they allow him to easily control the ball and recover while trying things off the dribble. Whereas AD's manlet hands really limit his ballhandling.

Man, sometimes I wonder how all these guards and small guys can even dribble the ball with their small hands :wink:


Reminds me of when I thought a 6'0 slim guy could make the nba since stockton was so good. Then I saw his hands....

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:36 am
by Baski
What?! No!

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:42 am
by Baski
Tomazan wrote:Who out of these players is the best center?

Paul, Curry or Irving?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But for real a similar question could be posed for these 3 guards in regards to rebounding and it wouldn't be silly either.

If you really wanna laugh compare their rim protection lol.

Re: Are AD & KD really better playmakers than Giannis?

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:54 am
by In SVG We Trust
KD as first option and running an offense is a mess. When he's not playing with the 2 best shooters of the NBA history, he's a losing balls machine. When Tony Allen or Chris Paul defended him close, he wasn't able to put the ball on the floor