Who will have a better season: Frank Ntilikina or Markelle Fultz?

[TheRealKaboom]

I like Frank man a lot of people don’t watch him often. He isn’t what we obviously projected him to be at all. But he’s a nice hard nosed defender, can shoot, and sorta run an offense. His PnR is very nice. He can be a much better Tony Allen.

Nevertheless, Fultz is doing very well. Happy for the kid, he seems to be working his ass off overcoming all the critics, and his injury.

What injury?

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[VDT]

Well no clue on his high school game, maybe no need to ever pull up because he was better than everyone? But the nba thing...well that's well well documented as the weirdest thing ever. As for his game, if he just gets better at being a point guard, gets stronger, etc he'll be a quality backup point guard. He already rebounds well, has great defensive upside, and seems to have a pretty good passing game. Without an elite pull up he's still an nba player. He needs an elite mid range shot to be an allstar or maybe even top tier starter, but as long as he can shoot some, he'll be a quality nba player long term imo. He's still super young at a position that takes a long time to get skilled at.

Regarding HS, Fultz wasn't a dominant player--late bloomer and didn't even do anything special his senior year--so he could've definitely used a killer pull-up in his toolbox, and he wasn't known for his shot (which was hitchy) then. People liked his size and his sort of smooth game, but it was a surprise to everyone when he started drilling everything at UW and became a consensus #1. I don't think it was a fluke exactly, though, since his form looked good and since he was hitting those shots week after week from all over the court. Seems like his body found some new form of balance right around entering college and then just lost it. Really weird.

Don't get what you're seeing as his future without a good jumper though. An okay backup PG in the NBA is still really really good, has to be able to put constant pressure on the defense and be able to hang with any team at any time--not quite as good as a starter at that but only a fraction worse. I'm thinking of players like Ish Smith or TJ McConnell, not particularly good players but they do a lot more than moving the ball up and doing basic PG things. Need to at least get up to regular efficiency (mid-50s TS%) or be truly elite at defense or playmaking. If Fultz is short of that, then he's a guy with some NBA skills but still not close to being a legit top-9 guy on a NBA rotation. Not trying to be harsh on Fultz or anything, I've just been following him closely and talking about him here since his UW days, always thought he was a fascinating prospect but one that people weren't quite seeing correctly. Got a long investment into this convo!

I can see him as a different type of poor man rubio. Clearly very poor man in terms of passing but far better at attacking the defense offensively with his drives. Not peak Rubio defense by any means but still could be a defensive stopper in some settings off the bench. Also could be an elite transition player as well. Clearly he has to get better but at his age that's a given if he keeps working on his game.

The problem with Fultz is that he is not good at scoring efficiently. Bad FT shooter, doesnt shoot 3s and doesnt finish well at the rim. He is a career 43 TS and is hard to see how he will get to 55 even if he improves his mid range. Not to mention that he hurts the spacing of the team. He cant become more explosive but he needs to improve his 3s+ FT so that he is not a liability on the court. It will also help his driving game.

[dhsilv2]

Regarding HS, Fultz wasn't a dominant player--late bloomer and didn't even do anything special his senior year--so he could've definitely used a killer pull-up in his toolbox, and he wasn't known for his shot (which was hitchy) then. People liked his size and his sort of smooth game, but it was a surprise to everyone when he started drilling everything at UW and became a consensus #1. I don't think it was a fluke exactly, though, since his form looked good and since he was hitting those shots week after week from all over the court. Seems like his body found some new form of balance right around entering college and then just lost it. Really weird.

Don't get what you're seeing as his future without a good jumper though. An okay backup PG in the NBA is still really really good, has to be able to put constant pressure on the defense and be able to hang with any team at any time--not quite as good as a starter at that but only a fraction worse. I'm thinking of players like Ish Smith or TJ McConnell, not particularly good players but they do a lot more than moving the ball up and doing basic PG things. Need to at least get up to regular efficiency (mid-50s TS%) or be truly elite at defense or playmaking. If Fultz is short of that, then he's a guy with some NBA skills but still not close to being a legit top-9 guy on a NBA rotation. Not trying to be harsh on Fultz or anything, I've just been following him closely and talking about him here since his UW days, always thought he was a fascinating prospect but one that people weren't quite seeing correctly. Got a long investment into this convo!

I can see him as a different type of poor man rubio. Clearly very poor man in terms of passing but far better at attacking the defense offensively with his drives. Not peak Rubio defense by any means but still could be a defensive stopper in some settings off the bench. Also could be an elite transition player as well. Clearly he has to get better but at his age that's a given if he keeps working on his game.

The problem with Fultz is that he is not good at scoring efficiently. Bad FT shooter, doesnt shoot 3s and doesnt finish well at the rim. He is a career 43 TS and is hard to see how he will get to 55 even if he improves his mid range. Not to mention that he hurts the spacing of the team. He cant become more explosive but he needs to improve his 3s+ FT so that he is not a liability on the court. It will also help his driving game.

His drives and rotations out to mid range if those mid range shots are good absolutely will open up his drives. He moves around a defense with a bit of a nash flare (way less in control and clearly with less tools). Before he basically had drive or nothing. If he can just pull up it completely changes his game. We're talking about being a quality backup point guard here...and I've already stressed that he'll be primarily a situational defensive stopper. He doesn't have to be THAT good offensively.

[wolves_89]

As far as this season, the question is somewhat of a toss-up since I don't know if Ntilikina is going to get much playing time and I have little confidence in Fultz. For the longer term, I'd rather have Ntilikina since there isn't much precedent for a guy who has struggled as much as Fultz ever getting back on track.

[Chris76]

Is there any video of Fultz yesterday? 5-11 (2/3 FT) for 12 points, 5 assists.

Fultz has looked a little better in the Orlando situation, he has quite a bit of work still to do to get his shot back.

Fultz had 12/5 with a lot of pressure against his former team.

He showed his transition speed and play making skills. Even with reduced perimeter shooting, he should average 15/5/5 with good defense. His midrange game could be exactly what Orlando needs!

[JazzUte88]

Is there any video of Fultz yesterday? 5-11 (2/3 FT) for 12 points, 5 assists.

Fultz has looked a little better in the Orlando situation, he has quite a bit of work still to do to get his shot back.

Fultz had 12/5 with a lot of pressure against his former team.

He showed his transition speed and play making skills. Even with reduced perimeter shooting, he should average 15/5/5 with good defense. His midrange game could be exactly what Orlando needs!

Yeah, he looks a lot better without Ben Simmons, even that game against the Pistons last year proved that.

[Chris76]

Is there any video of Fultz yesterday? 5-11 (2/3 FT) for 12 points, 5 assists.

Fultz has looked a little better in the Orlando situation, he has quite a bit of work still to do to get his shot back.

Fultz had 12/5 with a lot of pressure against his former team.

He showed his transition speed and play making skills. Even with reduced perimeter shooting, he should average 15/5/5 with good defense. His midrange game could be exactly what Orlando needs!

Yeah, he looks a lot better without Ben Simmons, even that game against the Pistons last year proved that.

I agree Fultz is better on ball making plays for himself and others, just like Simmons.

Sixers wanted Fultz to be a 3pt shooter and that could of been a major factor with him struggling.

Orlando, New Orleans, Dallas, and some other young teams should be fun to watch this year.

[Jadoogar]

I would bet on Fultz if he can stay healthy. Frank has been awful for his first two seasons.

And "awful" would be a perfect adjective for Fultz as well. At least Frank has played great defense.

Frank has a lot more competition for minutes. Fultz on the other hand just had his option picked up and is basically guaranteed the starting spot.