An input from someone living in China on the issue

[Curmudgeon]

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you have a right to vote and change the laws.[/quote]

Too bad the people living on mainland China outside the former crown colony do not.

[Texfjy]

I, as well as many others, was brought up with the saying “I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to my death, your right to say it. This used to be a widespread belief in America. Wish more people would try to live up to this.

[Locrian]

Wait so their own people don’t like freedom of speech?
Just wondering...

Like I know people from Hong Kong and Taiwan and they would cheer at Morey’s comments, and find LeBrons so hypocritical.

I am from Hong Kong, but I am hate Morey’s comments because he does not know what’s actually happening in Hong Kong.
Just because your way of freedom works for your country, does not mean it’s going to work for another country. Stop being so egotistic guys, stop forcing your ways down into someone else’s throat.



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How can you be sure he doesn't know whats actually happening in HK?
How can you be sure US's way of freedom doesn't work for another country?

[RookieStar]

Someone help me out, because I understand the “anti-China side” and tend to believe their version more. Is the other sides story that thousands of people just decided to protest for no reason?

Yes if you start responding to these people what you will encounter is an endless loop of socratic qeustions that leads to-

Has nothing to do with china.
Its a real estate issue with hong kong govt. with other outsiders contributing. doesnt have support
its not a political protest that has evolved but basically rioting and they should be jailed. the fuse was't around extradition to China where you go from having hong kong rights to being hosed with chinese kangaroo court.
Extreme over emphasis on the the term rioter vs protestor. because that is a huge message difference they are trying to claim.

Shame on you for bringing up china or any history
you are wrong and just have Chinese bias

Oh and I have no bias or lean, just mean to inform.
But then endless loop of false equivelents that all paths lead to what I just wrote.

What you are describing is the M.O for these chibots. Thats how they usually operate. You can see one obvioua bot ( in fact there is a pie chart that shows his posts ).

They just want to influence or force those who has no knowledge of the issue into their way of thinking. Thats why they muddle and deflect all.topics that shed light to chinas douchebaggery.

Also, is LBJ digging hinself a hole some more with additional tweets/posts/statements?

[Pennebaker]

I’m living and working just north of Beijing. People here have a mix of opinions on the matter. Many are passionate fans of the nba, and are furious/incredulous that Morey would ‘interfere in china’s internal affairs’.

Harden saying he loved China recieved a lot of support. In China, Harden and Lebron’s comments are being portrayed as the majority opinion of America - with Morey an ignorant individual whose job is only protected by ‘political correctness’.

Lebron’s comments calling Morey ignorant and misinformed, and telling him to not talk on the issue, are blasted everywhere, with Chinese citizens relieved they are right and supported in their political endeavors.

I hope those in the USA are happy with their ‘chosen one’ showing the world America’s colors.

Edit: which mod added the poll? And why is that in my thread, but no other ones? Can you not make your own? If that wasn’t a mod, please DM me

Well considering that China is universally vilified by Americans as a knee jerk reaction to almost anything they do, I think LeBron is right to urge caution, and the Chinese are probably justifiably relieved, because it's wrong that they should always be cast by the West as the villain with no moral leg to stand on.

And who are we to tell them that they're wrong about anything, honestly?

[clyde21]

That's correct. Chinese have donated billions to universities on the condition that they teach the current "leftist" ideology we see today. Chinese have also bought up half of the Hollywood studios in order to push out this ideology to movies and tv. Do you also know about Chinese influence in Silicon Valley? All this to weaken American and for them to be the #1 superpower without having to fire a single bullet.

The Chinese have been doing propaganda for thousands of years. They know what they are doing.

replace 'Chinese' with 'Jews' in your post and see how racist that sounds.

Please stick with the topic of how China is influencing the disintegration of Western society and not about how lexical word semantics can affect the context of a thought. I could replace every pronoun in the Bible with 'Beaner' and can make it sound racist.

no, let's stick to your blatant and belligerent racism, replace those two words and you would've already been banned.

[JeepCSC]

I need Clyde and others to say China is conceptually a flawed country. I think that’s a baseline I need to have to get a feel where some people are coming from.

[clyde21]

I need Clyde and others to say China is conceptually a flawed country. I think that’s a baseline I need to have to get a feel where some people are coming from.

wait, are you under the impression that I'm defending China or pretending it's a perfect country? wtf?

[JeepCSC]

wait, are you under the impression that I'm defending China or pretending it's a perfect country? wtf?

I’m under the impression many here don’t fully comprehend what is going on in Hong Kong vis-a-vis China, and that somehow America’s flaws are on the same level as China’s. Not just you, but you are rather vocal at the moment.

[TurinTurambar]

wait, are you under the impression that I'm defending China or pretending it's a perfect country? wtf?

I’m under the impression many here don’t fully comprehend what is going on in Hong Kong vis-a-vis China, and that somehow America’s flaws are on the same level as China’s. Not just you, but you are rather vocal at the moment.

I don't want to speak for Clyde directly, he can do that for himself just fine. I would like to echo his general sentiment though.

It is a little funny how people seem to really care about the current issues in Hong Kong when there have been atrocities pervasively committed in Mainland China for decades. Were there any threads about the Rockets' affiliations with China before this? Or for any of the players with business interests over there?

I think we need to look no further than this thread to see why that may be though:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1896879&start=660

Seems that people are really more upset LeBron had the gall to both advocate for U.S. issues which have directly affected him and his community, while also being a deeply conflicted capital C Capitalist when it comes to global affairs. That thing is 33 pages long, and I'd venture to guess that not on one of them is anyone contemplating the perils of an economic system that incentivizes the citizens of its country to value profit over principals.

[JeepCSC]

I went over threading the needle earlier, but suffice to say we made a strategic and pragmatic choice decades ago in regards to China. That doesn’t mean we forfeited the future right to criticize their system, merely recognizes there are restraints to our capabilities. If Hongkongers want to push back against their overlords, I should hope most are savvy enough to realize mimicking the CCP official script is wrong. There is a rather large space between pushing WW3 and playing Beijing Bob.

[jimmy keys]

I, as well as many others, was brought up with the saying “I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to my death, your right to say it. This used to be a widespread belief in America. Wish more people would try to live up to this.

Meh, I'm good. I don't need to hear everyone's opinion on every topic just because they have a platform to express how they feel.

[JeepCSC]

I, as well as many others, was brought up with the saying “I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to my death, your right to say it. This used to be a widespread belief in America. Wish more people would try to live up to this.

Meh, I'm good. I don't need to hear everyone's opinion on every topic just because they have a platform to express how they feel.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive. Someone has the right to speak, someone has the right to ignore.

[jimmy keys]

I, as well as many others, was brought up with the saying “I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to my death, your right to say it. This used to be a widespread belief in America. Wish more people would try to live up to this.

Meh, I'm good. I don't need to hear everyone's opinion on every topic just because they have a platform to express how they feel.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive. Someone has the right to speak, someone has the right to ignore.

Yeah they sure do, but what makes them think anyone cares?

[JeepCSC]

We don’t need to start wondering what compels man to speak, it is enough that they do.

[clyde21]

wait, are you under the impression that I'm defending China or pretending it's a perfect country? wtf?

I’m under the impression many here don’t fully comprehend what is going on in Hong Kong vis-a-vis China, and that somehow America’s flaws are on the same level as China’s. Not just you, but you are rather vocal at the moment.

yea, many here have no idea what's happening in Hong Kong, I don't think you really do either if you think this is primarily about 'freedom' per your words.

and it's stupid that I even have to say this but no, at no point in time have I ever defended China. in fact, I have made a point over the last few years to expose their genocide of the Uighers in Xinjiang and the Tibetans before that.

my point is simple: I am sick of the selective outrage depending on who the victim is. there are dozens of atrocities happening worldwide, including within China itself, that are much worse than what's happening in Hong Kong which been left completely ignored over the years the mainstream. NBA was playing games miles from where China was rounding up Uighers in in concentration and re-education camps, radio silence across the board. no one had any issues with the NBA expanding in China last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, despite infinitely worse human rights violations spanning decades against ethnic minorities in mainland China and against Tibetans. where the **** was the outrage then?

now, all of the sudden, I'm supposed to be outraged because Hong Kong, which is actually one of the freest and richest regions in the entire world, is protesting corruption and extradition laws, from a country that is literally supporting and funding 75% of the world's dictators as we speak? nah, **** outta here.

[TurinTurambar]

wait, are you under the impression that I'm defending China or pretending it's a perfect country? wtf?

I’m under the impression many here don’t fully comprehend what is going on in Hong Kong vis-a-vis China, and that somehow America’s flaws are on the same level as China’s. Not just you, but you are rather vocal at the moment.

yea, many here have no idea what's happening in Hong Kong, I don't think you really do either if you think this is primarily about 'freedom' per your words.

and it's stupid that I even have to say this but no, at no point in time have I ever defended China. in fact, I have made a point over the last few years to expose their genocide of the Uighers in Xinjiang and the Tibetans before that.

my point is simple: I am sick of the selective outrage depending on who the victim is. there are dozens of atrocities happening worldwide, including within China itself, that are much worse than what's happening in Hong Kong which been left completely ignored over the years the mainstream. NBA was playing games miles from where China was rounding up Uighers in in concentration and re-education camps, radio silence across the board. no one had any issues with the NBA expanding in China last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, despite infinitely worse human rights violations spanning decades against ethnic minorities in mainland China and against Tibetans. where the **** was the outrage then?

now, all of the sudden, I'm supposed to be outraged because Hong Kong, which is actually one of the freest and richest regions in the entire world, is protesting corruption and extradition laws, from a country that is literally supporting and funding 75% of the world's dictators as we speak? nah, **** outta here.

I think it's pretty clear that people want others to be at least upset at LeBron for having the audacity to stand against police brutality in his own country, and then allowing his conflict of interest to influence his decision to remain silent on the current issues in Hong Kong. Of course, he only did what anyone would have done in his position, and what they have been doing in his position for a long time.

The guy was never Muhammad Ali. I can't imagine what people in that other thread would say about Muhammad if he was his young, radical self today.

Again, I echo your sentiment. Were there threads about how a lot of players, from Tracy McGrady to Kobe Bryant have been going to China and doing business with China on this forum years ago? Has anyone ever brought up that the Rockets have been doing business with China since they drafted Yao Ming? Nobody seems to want to bring up the fact that Darryl Morey hasn't had a problem cashing checks from a company with close business ties to China.

Selective outrage, moral relativism, thinly veiled attacks against a player who happened to be a vocal advocate of BLM, it's all a really gross reaction to what's really just a stupid, disgusting, and sad situation.

[JeepCSC]

Even in your heavy-handed argument you drew up, you can’t seem to discern funding dictators and being a dictator. They are quite different things, believe you me.

And again, you seem to be under the misconception that Hong Kong is paradise. They have sham elections and a civil structure that literally disappears in our lifetime. For all the good things it has, there is quite literally a sword of Damocles hanging overhead. There is no argument to be had where China is in the right here. The only question is to what extent we are willing to help Hong Kong. I think most realize our ability to help is limited. Anything that moves the focus away from Hongkongers’ plight on a thread about Hongkongers’ plight is just something special.

[TurinTurambar]

Even in your heavy-handed argument you drew up, you can’t seem to discern funding dictators and being a dictator. They are quite different things, believe you me.

And again, you seem to be under the misconception that Hong Kong is paradise. They have sham elections and a civil structure that literally disappears in our lifetime. For all the good things it has, there is quite literally a sword of Damocles hanging overhead. There is no argument to be had where China is in the right here.

I really feel like very, very few posters here are actually harboring a pro-China stance.

We need to separate the issues at hand here.

China has a long list of moral atrocities spanning the course of decades. What's going on in Hong Kong right now is very sad, and I hope the people of Hong Kong can figure out a way to retain their freedom in the face of Chinese oppression.

I also think its a shame that the NBA and its players are as prone to succumbing to the worst aspects of capitalism as most other Americans and American companies are, but I think it really sucks that there's a particular subset of Americans using this simply to take long awaited shots at LeBron, because they still have a grudge against the guy for taking a stand on issues like racial discrimination and police brutality.

[azcatz11]

I’d leave the other thread open tbh. This is bigger than basketball