Are Jokic and LeBron the 2 best passers in the leauge? whose the best?

[Clyde Frazier]

No use having a center that is a great passer if he offers very little rim protection, can't switch and defend anyone outside of other slow centers and has to be benched on defense at the end of a playoff elimination game.

Passing and scoring can come from four other positions, only the center can offer great rim protection. How many teams have ever won a championship without a center that is at least above average defensively?

He may provide a great high light real, and box score watchers will froth over him, but the nuggets aren't winning anything with him at center.

Aside from the fact that your post screams hyperbole, it isn't relevant to the thread topic at all.

[Clyde Frazier]

People really go overboard with this Jokic best passer stuff.

Fine for talk about best bigman passer but he doesn’t have the consistent display of variety of high difficulty passes that require a full skill set. He’s not out there being asked to consistently complete some shovel/bounce/pocket passes off the dribble while breaking down his man at full speed. It’s just not comparable.

What? In other words, since he isn't quick you're literally ignoring the fact that he makes absurdly difficult passes with regularity and runs the entire nuggets offense, even off a rebound on the break.

[TheBallsDeeper]

No use having a center that is a great passer if he offers very little rim protection, can't switch and defend anyone outside of other slow centers and has to be benched on defense at the end of a playoff elimination game.

Passing and scoring can come from four other positions, only the center can offer great rim protection. How many teams have ever won a championship without a center that is at least above average defensively?

He may provide a great high light real, and box score watchers will froth over him, but the nuggets aren't winning anything with him at center.

Aside from the fact that your post screams hyperbole, it isn't relevant to the thread topic at all.

I don't think it's hyperbole, Jokic has proven that while he looks amazing in highlights, he struggles to defend. He was benched during their playoff elimination game due to poor defense, and during the world cup in several games. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense. While the box scores look great, if he is a turnsile he could be the next Kantor. It's an opinion, and while it may not be exactly on topic, I think it is relevant.

[Richard Miller]

It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense.

Yea that's what people said a year ago. And a year before that. And somehow he's still unscouted.

[Raps1103]

Even after winning a Championship, Lowry gets no love from Americans !!! Insane !! Some of “ya’ll” should watch him.. dude is one hell of a passer !

[dhsilv2]

As does Harden.

No he doesn't...

You can dislike his game, but the skill is unquestionable. His passing is elite, even the numbers show that.

I love his game and he's one of my favorite players. He isn't in this discussion.

[dhsilv2]

No use having a center that is a great passer if he offers very little rim protection, can't switch and defend anyone outside of other slow centers and has to be benched on defense at the end of a playoff elimination game.

Passing and scoring can come from four other positions, only the center can offer great rim protection. How many teams have ever won a championship without a center that is at least above average defensively?

He may provide a great high light real, and box score watchers will froth over him, but the nuggets aren't winning anything with him at center.

Aside from the fact that your post screams hyperbole, it isn't relevant to the thread topic at all.

I don't think it's hyperbole, Jokic has proven that while he looks amazing in highlights, he struggles to defend. He was benched during their playoff elimination game due to poor defense, and during the world cup in several games. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense. While the box scores look great, if he is a turnsile he could be the next Kantor. It's an opinion, and while it may not be exactly on topic, I think it is relevant.

And yet defensive impact stats don't even remotely agree with your take on Jokic's defense. He grades out as a quality all be it not great defender. Still this is completely off the topic of if he is the best passer in the game today and on that topic, he has a very real case for being just that.

[Sgt Major]

No use having a center that is a great passer if he offers very little rim protection, can't switch and defend anyone outside of other slow centers and has to be benched on defense at the end of a playoff elimination game.

Passing and scoring can come from four other positions, only the center can offer great rim protection. How many teams have ever won a championship without a center that is at least above average defensively?

He may provide a great high light real, and box score watchers will froth over him, but the nuggets aren't winning anything with him at center.

Aside from the fact that your post screams hyperbole, it isn't relevant to the thread topic at all.

I don't think it's hyperbole, Jokic has proven that while he looks amazing in highlights, he struggles to defend. He was benched during their playoff elimination game due to poor defense, and during the world cup in several games. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense. While the box scores look great, if he is a turnsile he could be the next Kantor. It's an opinion, and while it may not be exactly on topic, I think it is relevant.

Joker played 42 minutes in game 7, scored 29 points , had 13 rebounds and 4 blocks. He was literally doing everything, yet people repeatedly bring up that he didn't play in one of two defensive plays. Are you for real? Also, Serbian coach did a terrible job this summer, everyone knows that and not a single sane person blames Jokic for anything.

I don't know why I'm even trying to explain this, because the badge under your nickname tells a lot. I really have no idea what's wrong with so many 76ers fans and why do you people feel the urge to talk crap about the guy every time someone praises him. You're just making yourself look silly.

[Ticket]

No one mentioning Rondo?

Passing is the only thing he is still elite at. Hope he has another 'Playoff Rondo' run in him.

Watch on YouTube

[notericjr]

ben simmons

Watch on YouTube

;t=193s

Watch on YouTube

;t=169s

[TheBallsDeeper]

Aside from the fact that your post screams hyperbole, it isn't relevant to the thread topic at all.

I don't think it's hyperbole, Jokic has proven that while he looks amazing in highlights, he struggles to defend. He was benched during their playoff elimination game due to poor defense, and during the world cup in several games. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense. While the box scores look great, if he is a turnsile he could be the next Kantor. It's an opinion, and while it may not be exactly on topic, I think it is relevant.

Joker played 42 minutes in game 7, scored 29 points , had 13 rebounds and 4 blocks. He was literally doing everything, yet people repeatedly bring up that he didn't play in one of two defensive plays. Are you for real? Also, Serbian coach did a terrible job this summer, everyone knows that and not a single sane person blames Jokic for anything.

I don't know why I'm even trying to explain this, because the badge under your nickname tells a lot. I really have no idea what's wrong with so many 76ers fans and why do you people feel the urge to talk crap about the guy every time someone praises him. You're just making yourself look silly.

All the arguments relaying box scores, and the fact I'm a Sixers fan, don't change the fact that he had to be benched in the elimination game when it was on the line.

He is a poor defender, that's fact. It is not even up for debate. Both the Nuggets and the National team coaches have shown that they have no faith in his defense. I can't see that changing while he plays so overweight, he just does not have the mobility to switch on defense, and will continue to be scored against.

I'm a pretty unbiased fan,I think Embiid has a low pain tolerance and Simmons is shooting with the wrong hand. I also think a center that is a poor defender is not going to win you a championship, regardless of how flashy his passes are. Enjoy the ESPN plays of the week, but that's not going to win a title.

[Gooner]

No he doesn't...

You can dislike his game, but the skill is unquestionable. His passing is elite, even the numbers show that.

I love his game and he's one of my favorite players. He isn't in this discussion.

Why not? Please educate me.

[Gooner]

No one mentioning Rondo?

Passing is the only thing he is still elite at. Hope he has another 'Playoff Rondo' run in him.

Watch on YouTube

He is the best.

[Richard Miller]

All the arguments relaying box scores, and the fact I'm a Sixers fan, don't change the fact that he had to be benched in the elimination game when it was on the line.

That's still a hater's view if you are going to zero on that one fact and not on the fact that he up to that moment had played 94 games, averaging ~40 minutes in the playoffs. The game was lost when they blew a 30 point lead at home, and when the whole team (outside Jokic) couldn't make a single 3pt shot, and not at that one possession. But I guess that doesn't fit the agenda, does it.

[The Rebel]

Lebron creates the best passing situations and has unique size and strength to throw the passes. The velocity of his passes is what separates him from others. There’s others with similar vision but they physically can’t make some of these passes.

I think Rubio and Tray have fairly excellent vision but are limited by their other abilities and size.

Joker has the best vision out of everyone but doesn’t draw a secondary defender as often. He has the best touch and ability to thread needles. He’s definitely the best passing big man i’ve ever seen.

Jokic doesn't draw a double team because of his passing, some of you really need to watch the Nuggets play before talking out of your asses.

[dhsilv2]

You can dislike his game, but the skill is unquestionable. His passing is elite, even the numbers show that.

I love his game and he's one of my favorite players. He isn't in this discussion.

Why not? Please educate me.

harden's vision is good, not elite. When he's driving the weak side pass is almost completely out of play with him on most drives. Harden's elite scoring create doubles and easy passes. From a technical standpoint Harden is a very good passer, extremely accurate, but not at the levels of those in the discussion for best passers in the league. He lacks the vision and he has areas (cross body moving away) in his passing where he doesn't have the tools of the elite players.

[Sgt Major]

I don't think it's hyperbole, Jokic has proven that while he looks amazing in highlights, he struggles to defend. He was benched during their playoff elimination game due to poor defense, and during the world cup in several games. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, I suspect other teams will have scouted him better and he will have big issues on defense. While the box scores look great, if he is a turnsile he could be the next Kantor. It's an opinion, and while it may not be exactly on topic, I think it is relevant.

Joker played 42 minutes in game 7, scored 29 points , had 13 rebounds and 4 blocks. He was literally doing everything, yet people repeatedly bring up that he didn't play in one of two defensive plays. Are you for real? Also, Serbian coach did a terrible job this summer, everyone knows that and not a single sane person blames Jokic for anything.

I don't know why I'm even trying to explain this, because the badge under your nickname tells a lot. I really have no idea what's wrong with so many 76ers fans and why do you people feel the urge to talk crap about the guy every time someone praises him. You're just making yourself look silly.

All the arguments relaying box scores, and the fact I'm a Sixers fan, don't change the fact that he had to be benched in the elimination game when it was on the line.

He is a poor defender, that's fact. It is not even up for debate. Both the Nuggets and the National team coaches have shown that they have no faith in his defense. I can't see that changing while he plays so overweight, he just does not have the mobility to switch on defense, and will continue to be scored against.

I'm a pretty unbiased fan,I think Embiid has a low pain tolerance and Simmons is shooting with the wrong hand. I also think a center that is a poor defender is not going to win you a championship, regardless of how flashy his passes are. Enjoy the ESPN plays of the week, but that's not going to win a title.

That's not stats cherry-picking, those are cold facts about his game 7. Guy was a bit gassed after playing more minutes than any other player in the first two rounds, putting up better numbers than during the regular season, as the only one who stepped up among the Nuggets players. As someone already pointed out, the Nuggets didn't lose that game on defense, their problem was that the rest of the guys were completely out of the game, which led to a defeat after being up 20 or something like that.

Last year he led the team to 2nd place in the West, although Denver's starting five players combined missed more games than any other team's starting unit, so this year they can only improve, especially with additions like MPJ and Grant.

[KqWIN]

Rubio is a really nice player, but I think his passing gets a bit overrated because it is what he is best at. He's certainly one of the better passers in the league, but LeBron, Jokic, Paul, Simmons, etc. create more opportunities for others to make plays because they can pressure the defense in other ways. Rubio would be a monster if his jumper weren't absolutely broken, or if he were a bit bigger (wing sized). His shot mechanics are atrocious, so he will never be more than what he is. At this point, I think Lonzo is better.

Rubio is like old Peyton Manning. He has great vision and can see plays before they happen. But as far as actually delivering the pass? He doesn't have a great arm. Rubio is the same way on the court. He threw so many ducks and inaccurate passes it drove me crazy. Great reads and creativity often lead to turnovers because he couldn't deliver a pass well enough.

[Stillwater]

It's Lebron but Jokic is also elite.
I think both of them are soon to be passed by the most gifted floor general in decades down in Memphis

[Catchall]

I'll throw some other names in the mix: Rubio, CP3, Simmons, Trae Young, Rondo

Westbrook belongs in the conversation as well

As does Harden.

Maybe Doncic as well. And you want to know who is underrated as a passer? You'll be surprised by Joe Ingles.