Chinese Government Wanted NBA To Fire Morey

[smallgains]

Awww if this was the NHL we could say"hory puck, this is cwazy"

[G R E Y]

Has a single one taken an explicitly anti-CCP or pro-HK stance?

I haven't seen one. And that's in an environment (in America) where 90% or more of the people who do have an opinion seem to be taking exactly that stance: anti-CCP and pro-HK. It seems extremely obvious to me that NBA employees do not feel free to express a genuine opinion on this matter, regardless of the league's rhetoric in favor of free expression. I'm siding with the league's decision to not fire Morey, of course, but I think Silver and just about everyone involved seems to be more interested in covering their ass rather than making any statement of personally held convictions. The closest thing I've seen was Kanter, and even he didn't go near Hong Kong or the CCP.

That's part of the point about free speech. Others may want them to, and I've tried making the case that some have been consistent about focusing on domestic issues (not enough, others have said), but we're now going from what they can say - and that has been supported - to what others think they ought to, and then imputing motives as to why they haven't (Is ass covering part of it? Of course. For some it may be all of it, but I can't say that with certainty about all of them and I've tried explaining why above). All of it is free speech despite how messy it is.

As this situation evolves, we'll see how it affects the league internally and externally. I have wondered now and again whether Morey actually wanted to get fired and thought this would be the most expedient bridges burned way to do it. Instead he's become the catalyst for an important ongoing discussion. What does a guy have to do to get fired around here?

You didn't understand my point and completely misrepresented what I was saying. My point was not to condemn anyone's stance or lack thereof or to speak on what they ought to say.

My point was: what are the odds that out of hundreds of public NBA employees, not a single one cares enough about this issue to venture a single comment against the CCP or in favor of Hong Kong while it is the biggest story in the their world and 90% of the people commenting on it feel that it's a very clear-cut case? If that doesn't strike you as an unbelievable coincidence, then I'm dumbfounded. To me, it says very clearly that there is not free speech in practice. People are very obviously scared to talk.

Of course, there are certain people whose comments have been incredibly hard to take seriously given their past views and opinions, but that's not my point here at all.

I really didn't intend to mischaracterize what you were saying, so thanks for clarifying. But if I understand your point correctly now, it's that the NBA does in fact silence those in it? Previously you said they weren't speaking out for the sole priority of the bottom line. I thought you were imputing motives then because the NBA stood by Morey and its stated values despite continuing to lose money and potentially being impacted financially more in the future.

I think you may be imputing motives again that those in the NBA are being silenced and working backwards to apply it. At any given point, NBA personnel have given opinions on various subjects. Now a can of worms has opened up because someone did so about a contentious international issue. But I'll bring up FIBA WC again. I don't recall hearing any player on any team speaking up against China on anything. Basketball Without Borders Africa - same thing. Basketball Without Borders Europe - same thing. Is it that players were silenced or that their primary focus is spreading the game? What if they're just don't care enough to put themselves out there for the potential backlash?

Again, we can only go by what we know. You're assuming the league silenced everyone, and assuming they'd otherwise care enough to speak up. But there has been no precedent of players doing so when playing abroad; if they have, they've been exceptions. And whenever players have done so pertaining to issues at home, and now Morey about an international issue, the NBA has several times now repeated its stance on the issue, despite profits taking a hit.

I agree that it would be great if more said more about many issues. I don't agree that the only concern for the NBA is profit, or that there is evidence it is silencing its personnel. This is an unprecedented unfolding situation, and the stance the league took has room for any number of opinions and defended their right to express them.

EDIT to add: I'm just reading the ESPN article about LeBron asking Silver to do something about Morey. In it there's this:
"The issue of China's sovereignty had been drilled into Team USA players who traveled to China for the FIBA World Cup just weeks before. One player from USA Basketball told ESPN that he "couldn't believe" Morey would take on the issue with a tweet after the way Team USA was warned about its complications."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china

This actually makes your case stronger, though I'd still say that given the league's words and non-actions on Morey, the larger principle was upheld.

A bit later in the same article:
"One of the league's core values is freedom of expression, Silver said. "It's what you guys stand for." And to not speak, he said, could lead to criticism for staying silent."

And from another:
"Silver said the NBA was "apologetic" over the reaction to Morey's tweets and the actions that occurred afterward, but he refused to apologize, saying, "We are not apologizing for Daryl exercising his freedom of expression.""
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27846109/sources-adam-silver-had-tense-meeting-lakers-nets-players-china

[Drou]

He'll get fired by Fertita, you don't mess with an owner's dough.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-cancels-release-tarantinos-once-a-time-hollywood-1248652?utm_source=Direct

More China pettiness lol.

[jrask]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-cancels-release-tarantinos-once-a-time-hollywood-1248652?utm_source=Direct

More China pettiness lol.

KD level pettiness

I wonder how many burner accounts China has?

[the sea duck]

If David Stern was still the commissioner, I'm pretty sure Morey would have been gone already.

If David Stern was still the commissioner, he'd know where Morey's body is buried.

[RookieStar]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-cancels-release-tarantinos-once-a-time-hollywood-1248652?utm_source=Direct

More China pettiness lol.

KD level pettiness

I wonder how many burner accounts China has?

They have a toll army. Paid 50c per post. We have some here in realgm.. well one poster for sure l ol

[RookieStar]

Also, I forgot something... Silver keeps on saying the money lost on this china thing... did he keep in mind the consequence/dollars lost if he caved in to china's demands? Would normal everyday American fans be fine with it?

[Showdown]

Good on Silver for taking a strong stand here about Morey to the Chinese government.

This is like congratulating a prostitute for using a condom.

What's wrong with being a prostitute?

Everything about being prostitute is wrong

[slicedbread2]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-cancels-release-tarantinos-once-a-time-hollywood-1248652?utm_source=Direct

More China pettiness lol.

KD level pettiness

I wonder how many burner accounts China has?

When China gets mad, whoever receives the brunt of it gets CCP'ed.

[Pennebaker]

This is slick verbal acrobatics by Silver and totally misleading. China never asked for Morey to be fired and Silver actually never said that they did. Read Silver's words again:

"We made clear that we were being asked to fire him, by the Chinese government, by the parties we dealt with, government and business."

...WE MADE CLEAR THAT WE WERE BEING ASKED...

Lol. YOU made clear? So the Chinese weren't clear?

The Chinese government of course called Silver out on his clever wordsmithing - which was intended to make it look like the NBA took a bold stance in the face of commie pressure, but it never happened.

[Coachcavplaya23]

Sued for what? Tillman Fertita would be well within his rights to fire Morey. If any of us go to work and make a decision that costs our boss $50+ million dollars, we are getting fired and escorted out of the building on the SPOT

The only way Morey would have a case is if he’s not able to get another NBA job and can prove that the league is conspiring to blackball him. And even then , whatever the league would pay Morey in a settlement is waaay less than the money they’d be losing if the NBA China deal falls through.

I understand, but dislike when people are putting the blame on Morey. The blame should be on China for being so insecure and controlling. I think a decent owner could well side with a loyal employee if an irrational client is trying to burn down the building, because said employee disagreed with the client about politics.

Anyone/anything well balanced would have just looked at the tweet and not care. What power does Morey hold? He’s a GM on a basketball team, not some world leader. Will China start boycotting everything if just 1 employee disagrees with them?

You can’t give in, else what will it be next time? China will do everything it pleases and everyone will be too afraid to talk about it.

I’m not hating on Morey but we have to be objective here and examine his actions like anyone else.

Look, obviously everyone has freedom of speech and there’s nothing wrong with expressing that as a US citizen. But as an EMPLOYEE , freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences.

If I tell my boss I’m skipping work to go to a protest , yes it’s my right to protest if I choose to do that. But if my team has deadlines that day and I’m not there, my workplace has the right to hold me responsible because I knew damn well what my priorities were yet still chose to bail on my coworkers. You have to be reliable if you want others to work with you.


Daryl clearly didn’t understand the context of his tweet, because he quickly deleted it and released an apology. So to me, that indicates that he KNOWS he shouldn’t have sent it and probably didn’t think it through.You’re a 47yo grown man and you cannot be trusted to manage your social media account during a sensitive time? Yes that is grounds to be fired or reprimanded.

First, Morey most likely fully understood the context of the tweet. The tweet would be there if the owner did not say anything. He didnt use his social media account in a bad manner. This only blew up because China is so **** weak and easily offended over well anything. This isnt grounds for anything given he didn't do anything. One country just needs grow up a pair and learn how to react appropriately to things they don't like. There shouldn't of been any reaction anyways. This was a non isssue that blew up for no reason.

[kieferli]

I can tell you they will ban your WeChat Account,If you want to post something about free HK in WeChat . China only want the ppls I’m China know what the government want them to believe.

[kieferli]

Read on Twitter

[DaPessimist]

This is totally random, but I was just thinking, this might be the one time I'm actually interested in what Stephon Marbury has to say about the situation.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

Morey won't be fired right away, but if the Rockets get off to a slow start or have an underachieving season he is gone. He will probably be fired after the season unless they win the championship. That way the NBA can play both sides. I hate that the NBA is bowing to an oppressive regime when they have no problem standing up to our government. (which I'm fine with and support in many instances.)

But at the end of the day it isn't show friends, it is show business. The NBA and the Rockets aren't going to stand for the lost revenue and potential future trouble.

[reflex35]

Funny thing in this situation is that Morey just secured his job for another year or two at least.
Tilman can't fire him now as it will look really bad.
If we don't look at human rights and politics Morey's tweet will cost Rockets insane amount of money.
And I even think that he did the right thing but many business owners would still fire him as he should have known better than to tweet it..
But now Tilman is stuck with Morey because of optics.

What a great way to secure your job.

[psman2]

Funny thing in this situation is that Morey just secured his job for another year or two at least.
Tilman can't fire him now as it will look really bad.
If we don't look at human rights and politics Morey's tweet will cost Rockets insane amount of money.
And I even think that he did the right thing but many business owners would still fire him as he should have known better than to tweet it..
But now Tilman is stuck with Morey because of optics.

What a great way to secure your job.

Morey had already signed a five year contract extension for around 8 million a year earlier this year. If fired he will get all his money still. I don't think one of the best GM in the business did this to secure what was already secure.

[reflex35]

Funny thing in this situation is that Morey just secured his job for another year or two at least.
Tilman can't fire him now as it will look really bad.
If we don't look at human rights and politics Morey's tweet will cost Rockets insane amount of money.
And I even think that he did the right thing but many business owners would still fire him as he should have known better than to tweet it..
But now Tilman is stuck with Morey because of optics.

What a great way to secure your job.

Morey had already signed a five year contract extension for around 8 million a year earlier this year. If fired he will get all his money still. I don't think one of the best GM in the business did this to secure what was already secure.

I didn't know that.
This was just irony on my part and not a really serious post

[scrabbarista]

That's part of the point about free speech. Others may want them to, and I've tried making the case that some have been consistent about focusing on domestic issues (not enough, others have said), but we're now going from what they can say - and that has been supported - to what others think they ought to, and then imputing motives as to why they haven't (Is ass covering part of it? Of course. For some it may be all of it, but I can't say that with certainty about all of them and I've tried explaining why above). All of it is free speech despite how messy it is.

As this situation evolves, we'll see how it affects the league internally and externally. I have wondered now and again whether Morey actually wanted to get fired and thought this would be the most expedient bridges burned way to do it. Instead he's become the catalyst for an important ongoing discussion. What does a guy have to do to get fired around here?

You didn't understand my point and completely misrepresented what I was saying. My point was not to condemn anyone's stance or lack thereof or to speak on what they ought to say.

My point was: what are the odds that out of hundreds of public NBA employees, not a single one cares enough about this issue to venture a single comment against the CCP or in favor of Hong Kong while it is the biggest story in the their world and 90% of the people commenting on it feel that it's a very clear-cut case? If that doesn't strike you as an unbelievable coincidence, then I'm dumbfounded. To me, it says very clearly that there is not free speech in practice. People are very obviously scared to talk.

Of course, there are certain people whose comments have been incredibly hard to take seriously given their past views and opinions, but that's not my point here at all.

I really didn't intend to mischaracterize what you were saying, so thanks for clarifying. But if I understand your point correctly now, it's that the NBA does in fact silence those in it? Previously you said they weren't speaking out for the sole priority of the bottom line. I thought you were imputing motives then because the NBA stood by Morey and its stated values despite continuing to lose money and potentially being impacted financially more in the future.

I think you may be imputing motives again that those in the NBA are being silenced and working backwards to apply it. At any given point, NBA personnel have given opinions on various subjects. Now a can of worms has opened up because someone did so about a contentious international issue. But I'll bring up FIBA WC again. I don't recall hearing any player on any team speaking up against China on anything. Basketball Without Borders Africa - same thing. Basketball Without Borders Europe - same thing. Is it that players were silenced or that their primary focus is spreading the game? What if they're just don't care enough to put themselves out there for the potential backlash?

Again, we can only go by what we know. You're assuming the league silenced everyone, and assuming they'd otherwise care enough to speak up. But there has been no precedent of players doing so when playing abroad; if they have, they've been exceptions. And whenever players have done so pertaining to issues at home, and now Morey about an international issue, the NBA has several times now repeated its stance on the issue, despite profits taking a hit.

Thanks for your long response. Appreciated. To compare this to trips to Africa and Europe is unfair. Obviously, it's twenty times the story (in America) that any of those were. People weren't speaking up then because they weren't being asked about it then. Now, people have been asked. And there's been plenty of room for those who haven't been asked to also speak up, now that the subject has clearly been on everyone's minds.

You're also kind of saying, "at any point people have spoken up" and then following that with "at these certain points, people didn't speak up." It doesn't really prove anything that people have "said things" before or that they "didn't say things" before. This is clearly a new and different issue for the NBA, with new considerations.

I clearly stated that I thought the NBA keeping Morey was done for the longterm financial implications of the revenue that would be lost in America, et al., if they were seen to blatantly cave to the Chinese Communist Party. To bring up short term losses doesn't change that opinion.

My point was not that the NBA silences its players/coaches/etc.. It was that there must be an explanation for their unnatural silence; it is too universal within the league to be coincidence. It may very well be that they don't care enough to put themselves out there for the potential backlash. I never said anyone other than Silver (the representative of the league) was motivated by financial considerations. I used the phrase "cover their ass" as intentionally ambiguous.

I appreciate your cordiality. I'm not sure we're really getting anywhere in this convo, though. Nothing personal.