Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN

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Is it time for the GB to move on from this China stuff?

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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#161 » by Pennebaker » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:41 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
ChiCitySPORTS#1 wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldnt do the same thing if I was LeBron. I'd probably go into damage control mode too if I knew if it'd affect mine and my colleagues pockets. I think most people find issue with it because we thought of him as someone who wasn't afraid to speak out against this type of thing. I'd guess privately, he doesnt support China, I would've not commented at all if I were him. He's losing fans locally tbh


I don't think he cares if he loses fans because he's standing up for his brothers. To the players it looks like this:

    "Man, LeBron is risking his reputation to stand for our interests. He really does care about us like he says."

And I also don't think any of us can really appreciate where the players are coming from, but their initial reaction was not about money. They feel that if one of them caused all of this, they would've been cut and blacklisted. Silver denies it, but the players don't buy it.

The financial issue is also absolutely relevant because there are a lot of lower-to-mid tier guys who get 50% of their income (or more) from China. And for a GM to threaten their livelihood unilaterally without their consent, when that GM was warned about doing that, it just feels morally wrong to them.

Imagine if someone came to you and said this:

    "Hey, Bob from accounting just eliminated 50% of your income because he tweeted his opinion. He was warned about doing that, but he did it anyway knowing he'd threaten your livelihood. You should be okay with it because it's for a good cause, and besides, you don't really need 50% of your income because you make enough without it."

That's not right. You wouldn't accept that and nobody else would either. And that's the basis for LeBron's criticism of Morey and also why LeBron won't condemn China. He does not have the right to do that.


These are good points. Thing is, when you look at the big picture, it really isn’t a good thing that a large chunk of so many US citizens income is dependent on a country that doesn’t share our ideals and would do something like just yank that money away over a tweet. It’s actually really scary to think about.


Guess what? Your income can be taken away for a tweet right here at home and it actually happens all the time. So the American company you work for right now doesn't really share your ideals about liberty and freedom of speech either.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#162 » by Edumacated » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:59 pm

smallgains wrote:Lebron is so edumacted...


Please don't compare me to LeBron.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#163 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:02 pm

CIN-C-STAR wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
These are good points. Thing is, when you look at the big picture, it really isn’t a good thing that a large chunk of so many US citizens income is dependent on a country that doesn’t share our ideals and would do something like just yank that money away over a tweet. It’s actually really scary to think about.


Of course the counter is that nothing will protect us more from that, than more trade and more open economic markets between our countries.


And the counter to your counter is that is exactly what Americans were told in the late '90s when we normalized trade relations with China in the first place, and nothing that has happened since then has shown that to be true.
In fact, enriching the Chinese government through expanded trade seems to have strengthened their authoritarian grip and emboldened them to be more aggressive.


In terms of working with the US, I'd argue it has been anything but that. Mind you there have been setbacks, but nothing moves in a straight line.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#164 » by Ecmic » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:03 pm

At da end of da day, Morey’s tweet could end up being a net positive for the NBA.

Lean into it, NBA. Don’t be myopic.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#165 » by KrAzY3 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:20 pm

E-Balla wrote:And yeah everyone knows that, but Hong Kong isn't fighting for independence so everything you're saying is irrelevant. Hong Kong isn't even fighting to keep their current rights anymore, they got that. They're fighting against police corruption. Knowing someone that left doesn't mean you're updated in what's happening now and it doesn't mean my comment that people in HK are more free than people here is wrong, because by all objective measures they are.

The sad thing is you don't seem ignorant so much as a propagandist on this matter. Their slogan literally is that they want freedom, but you are like screw their slogan. Two of the five things they are asking for specifically are related to their freedom and autonomy, but you gloss over that to. Yes, this is about Hong Kong's freedom.

That is what hangs in the balance. Either Chinese encroachment continues or it is halted. Judging by China's actions surrounding the issue, as you would say "everyone knows" that China isn't just going to leave Hong Kong alone. You want to fixate on the present moment as though the now is forever, but that isn't how this works. This is about tomorrow, not just today. You speak like China is just going to go away and leave Hong Kong alone now, that's absurd and not at all how China acts when it feels it is entitled to something.

This is about a country that practiced forced abortions, and is reputed to be harvesting organs gaining control of a region that appreciates their freedom. That is what this is about and no amount of deflecting or downplaying that will change that basic fact. That's what triggered the protests, that's what motivates the protests, and that's why China is acting like a petulant child. They want to bring Hong Kong to heel.

Hong Kong's freedom is what is at stake! The fact that you use is as an excuse to downplay the concern is ridiculous. It's like saying a supermodel shouldn't be worried about a potential acid attack because she's pretty. Yeah, well she won't be after her face gets melted, that's the problem!
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#166 » by Mephariel » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:25 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
Why didn't Morey tweet about North korea? Or Burma? Or Congo? Does he not care about those people?


I do agree with this point, somewhat. I personally don't care about any of these conflicts and enjoy my amoral, hedonistic existence. I do nothing to help or hinder these conflicts and therefore shouldn't claim and moral agency, positive or negative, in having an opinion and for that reason find myself amoral in their regard.

But LBJ at least pretends to be a moral agent. The issue isn't Morey and his hypocrisy in terms of supporting what could be called the 'flavor of the week' conflict. Its LBJ espousing moral arguments for some issues but retreating like the self interested, money hungry whore he truly is when a conflict could effect his bottom line.

His dissatisfaction for Trump and support of BLM were financially incentivized stances to take, in that doing so likely made him more money. Similar to Nike and their Kap campaign. They know the demographic and have tremendous capital in algorithm that identify their likely, and unlikely, consumers. That campaign was greenlit with the knowledge it would be a financial plus. It would not have happened under any other circumstance.


That is true about Lebron. But is that necessary wrong? You fight for causes that you want and can fight for. Again, that doesn't mean you have to fight for every cause especially if it does effect your bottom line.

I think what is dumb is Lebron's assertion that Morey is uneducated on the issue. Morey made a tweet, he didn't write an essay about China and Hong Kong. It is not like you can pick apart a piece that he wrote for Time magazine. There is nothing in that tweet is makes him "uneducated." Lebron saying he is uneducated made it sound like he knows Morey's heart. And also, when you say you could be harm physically, spiritually...STFU.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#167 » by MrBigShot » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:28 pm

If something doesn't involve a community or people LeBron can relate with, he dgaf.
"They say you miss 100% of the shots you take" - Mike James
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#168 » by freethedevil » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:30 pm

jason bourne wrote:The question should be what to do about LeBron? Trade him back to the Cavs for Kevin Love, Darius Garland, Cedi Osman, and a slew of picks.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y35m7ykb

Actually wouldn't have been a ridiculous idea prior to the ad trade. Now? nah.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#169 » by MrCheerios » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:38 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Knicks7Tape wrote:
LBJ cares about police brutality when it is convenient I guess.

Read on Twitter


Or he was quoting Doctor King on MLK day?

Remember all this I can't breath stuff happened in 2014. That was 5 years ago. Lebron is 34-35 years old. You change as you get older. It's pretty natural for people in their 30's to become more selective of their issues and be less idealistic.

I swear...I'm not looking forward to the next 30 years of every politician having a tweet from their 20's put up to show them being hypocrites against their 40-50 year old selves.

Lebron tweeted that in 2018, which was just last year. If you're going to do an about face that quickly on speaking publicly on social issues expect to be called a hypocrite. And I fully expect Lebron to continue being outspoken on social issues anyway, he just wanted Morey punished for a tweet and called him uneducated on the issue on Hong Kong.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#170 » by Nate505 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:42 pm

MrCheerios wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Knicks7Tape wrote:
LBJ cares about police brutality when it is convenient I guess.

Read on Twitter


Or he was quoting Doctor King on MLK day?

Remember all this I can't breath stuff happened in 2014. That was 5 years ago. Lebron is 34-35 years old. You change as you get older. It's pretty natural for people in their 30's to become more selective of their issues and be less idealistic.

I swear...I'm not looking forward to the next 30 years of every politician having a tweet from their 20's put up to show them being hypocrites against their 40-50 year old selves.

Lebron tweeted that in 2018, which was just last year. If you're going to do an about face that quickly on speaking publicly on social issues expect to be called a hypocrite. And I fully expect Lebron to continue being outspoken on social issues anyway, he just wanted Morey punished for a tweet and called him uneducated on the issue on Hong Kong.

Hey man, it's been a year mean, he's gotten older man, lots of opinions change in a year man.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#171 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 pm

MrCheerios wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Knicks7Tape wrote:
LBJ cares about police brutality when it is convenient I guess.

Read on Twitter


Or he was quoting Doctor King on MLK day?

Remember all this I can't breath stuff happened in 2014. That was 5 years ago. Lebron is 34-35 years old. You change as you get older. It's pretty natural for people in their 30's to become more selective of their issues and be less idealistic.

I swear...I'm not looking forward to the next 30 years of every politician having a tweet from their 20's put up to show them being hypocrites against their 40-50 year old selves.

Lebron tweeted that in 2018, which was just last year. If you're going to do an about face that quickly on speaking publicly on social issues expect to be called a hypocrite. And I fully expect Lebron to continue being outspoken on social issues anyway, he just wanted Morey punished for a tweet and called him uneducated on the issue on Hong Kong.


That was a quote of MLK on MLK day.

Separately, when he ACTUALLY took a political stand that upset people, it was years ago. As we all age we find less outward things that we feel we need to voice an opinion on. That's just natural.

I doubt lebron ever stops speaking on issues he cares about. I however don't expect him to speak up on every single injustice he sees. Who has time for that?
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#172 » by E-Balla » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:45 pm

KrAzY3 wrote:The sad thing is you don't seem ignorant so much as a propagandist on this matter. Their slogan literally is that they want freedom, but you are like screw their slogan. Two of the five things they are asking for specifically are related to their freedom and autonomy, but you gloss over that to. Yes, this is about Hong Kong's freedom.

That is what hangs in the balance. Either Chinese encroachment continues or it is halted. Judging by China's actions surrounding the issue, as you would say "everyone knows" that China isn't just going to leave Hong Kong alone. You want to fixate on the present moment as though the now is forever, but that isn't how this works. This is about tomorrow, not just today. You speak like China is just going to go away and leave Hong Kong alone now, that's absurd and not at all how China acts when it feels it is entitled to something.

One question for you, are the people in HK fighting for independence from China? If they aren't what is being discussed here? Tomorrow is tomorrow, China and HK have a deal that come 2047 they'll be 100% reintegrated. China wants to push that date up, and Hong Kong successfully fought against that, but it's coming no matter what.

The idea that China's encroaching when they decide to govern their own city is similar to the "state's rights" mantra you hear in the US and it's just as absurd. China doesn't just feel they're entitled to Hong Kong, Hong Kong also knows China DOES contain Hong Kong. This isn't like Taiwan.

This is about a country that practiced forced abortions,

We're talking China not the US.

Hong Kong's freedom is what is at stake! The fact that you use is as an excuse to downplay the concern is ridiculous. It's like saying a supermodel shouldn't be worried about a potential acid attack because she's pretty. Yeah, well she won't be after her face gets melted, that's the problem!

Freedom from what exactly? Again Hong Kong isn't fighting for independence. They're fighting against police corruption. I already posted the damn link.

I'll ask one question, to you what's the logical ending here. What are you hoping to accomplish with all this ranting. WWIII? Convincing the vast majority of people in Hong Kong that don't want independence to want independence (polls have found only 11% of people in HK want independence, compared to 13% that want to be 100% integrated into China, and the rest who want the 2 government deal to continue)? What exactly are you doing besides saying words? What's the actual meaning in all this?
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#173 » by ATLTimekeeper » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:46 pm

It's possible he took Morey's comments as "supporting" violent protests, but I think it's more likely that he's pissed that the management class cost players money.

I don't have an ounce of sympathy for Morey, who willingly courted Chinese money for most of his career. To grow a conscience now doesn't make him much of a hero here. LeBron really seems out to lunch with how he's handled this as well. What a mess.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#174 » by G35 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:57 pm

E-Balla wrote:
G35 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Why has he never tweeted about America, or Texas more specifically, or Houston even more specifically?

In my own county (Cobb County, GA) there's been 4 people that died in police custody this year, most prisoners are only allowed 15 minutes a day outside their 8x12 cells, and these are in the jails so most of the people haven't even seen a courtroom yet and plenty are totally innocent. Where's everyone spazzing on Morey for not tweeting about this?



That's the whole point about every single social justice issue, there are social justice issues everyday, in every city.

Those who have a platform and feel the need to preach to others about their particular favorite cause to others that have no idea what is going on in that area.

Some issues get more burn and reaction than others, that's the bottom line.

You can see that in sports with the whole fight for breast cancer issue. They make the players have to wear pink for a whole month to highlight the issue. Why don't we see something similar for testicular cancer, or prostate cancer, or if you want to stick with women cervical cancer.

Some things get highlighted more than others. Humans cannot be expected to know or care about everything going on in the world. But those who have large platforms are forcing down everyone's throat to make sure the conversation is had.....

Of course, so what's the issue with LeBron saying the same. That's not his fight and he said as much. He can't fight everything. I don't see how he's being a hypocrite to admit that.



He's a hypocrite because he's been acting like he knows everything and is this social justice champion.

And the thing about social justice is you can't just stop at your cause...you have to fight for all causes.

Take race, black people can't just fight for only black rights, or black oppression and stop if you get what you want. If you want universal support then you have to fight for everyone's rights.

Social justice is not "some" situation, because once you put qualifiers on social justice then you open the floodgates for people not to care. Your reason not to care does not trump my reason not to care. So when minorities, LGBTQ, females, etc complain about something and people say they do not care here in America, it should be okay with everyone. But we all know that is not true, because in recent years, if you do not support social justice then you are apart of the problem.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/shawn-windsor/2019/10/16/lebron-james-china-hong-kong-protests/3991430002/

LeBron James was once told to shut up and dribble. He didn’t like it. Nor should he have.

"I get to sit up here and talk about social injustice,” he said, responding to comments from Fox News’ Laura Ingraham in 2018, a right-wing opinion-maker who didn’t like James’ description of President Trump as “laughable” and “scary.”

"We will definitely not shut up and dribble,” James promised.



As he said after Ingraham ripped him for not sticking to sports, when he explained he couldn’t shut up and dribble because he owed “too much to society, too much to the youth, too much to so many kids who feel like they don't have a way out.”


Yet moving forward, his off-court endeavors will be viewed more cynically, as a money play, and that’s too bad. Whether you have agreed with James’ views and causes, few have questioned his sincerity.

Well, the benefit of the doubt is gone. On Monday, in the span of a few minutes, he made clear that it’s about the money.

That’s fine. This is America.

But you either believe in social justice or you don’t.


The writer says it plainly and he defended Lebron and said his past social justice remarks still hold weight. But now, moving forward, Lebron and what he says will hold less weight because its based on money and not social justice.

Social justice does not have a specific country, race, religion, sex, gender attached to it. Lebron himself said he owed "too much to society" to not take a stand. Lebron set the standards and it was easy when there were no negative consequences. But now his words are very empty sounding the next time he decides to use his platform. He should have followed in Jordan's footsteps and stayed neutral.

Whenever you take a side you have to stand up for that side in all situations, you can't flip flop back and forth, it looks weak......
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#175 » by KrAzY3 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:58 pm

E-Balla wrote:The idea that China's encroaching when they decide to govern their own city is similar to the "state's rights" mantra you hear in the US and it's just as absurd. China doesn't just feel they're entitled to Hong Kong, Hong Kong also knows China DOES contain Hong Kong. This isn't like Taiwan.

Do you get paid by the hour?

You have moments where you speak with candor and knowledge of the subject, then it becomes how clearly you are working to deflect on the issue. You are on one hand saying the Hong Kong protestors got everything they wanted in terms of freedom, then the next you are like yeah well of course China is going to take over Hong Kong.

Not only that, but you flippantly describe China taking over Hong Kong as though is it their right to do so, yet at another you admit how screwed up China is. What about the right to basic freedoms?

Can you at least admit that the best way to describe the situation is like an abusive parent regaining parental rights? We know Hong Kong is going to get abused, but who cares because it's their child, right? In this case it's like a child that will be subjected to all imaginable forms of wrongs. Chained up, tortured, sexually abused, beaten, maimed, brainwashed... I'm describing things China does to their own citizens.

But you, knowing full well what you are defending have chosen to do so anyway. You and LeBron have that in common, kudos to you.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#176 » by StatLine » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:58 pm

Get ethered, LeBron. More than an athlete when you have nothing to lose, but when you have something on the line, you shut up and crab dribble around the topic. Sellout halfway social activist.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#177 » by TimRobbins » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:59 pm

Synciere wrote:Have you ever an NBA contract? There are literally DOZENS of clauses that point to players publicly saying or doing anything that can, will, or may have a negative effect on a public relations and/or financial level. So when you say players or Morey did not break any rules, that's only true on the surface, but if you really don't think there's a clause there that would apply to causing an international incident with China, then you're being naïve.


I don't think a clause which covers Morey's tweet exists. Silver said that and I don't think he's lying.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#178 » by G R E Y » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:01 pm

I wonder how many people read the whole article? This isn't to support LeBron's stance that a player would have been treated differently in the same situation. LBJ did make a case for backing the players beyond how this affected him personally, but to the point of a player being reprimanded in the same situation, he didn't cite any examples. Good for Silver for pushing back. It's a relationship between the players and management, and there's a give and take, but there is a line. I don't mean that players should fall in line, but that Silver expressed a general principle that applies to all, regardless of position or if others don't like it.

But the article does present a nuanced situation that the players found themselves in. They knew nothing about it, they landed in China, and suddenly it's WTF moments of cameras and questions and cancellations. Sure people can say 'oh nobody feels sorry for millionaires' or why should people care if they lose money, but there is a human element to their experience. They were there to spread the game, and sure, their own brands, but they were not prepared for all of this ahead of time so I can understand why they'd feel blindsided and want some protection from the NBA as the NBA was figuring out how to handle a new situation.

The article makes two points that broaden the context: one was that if any other GM said the same thing, the backlash would not have been as severe. The other is that for FIBA WC, Team USA was informed of implications of discussions of Chinese sovereignty beforehand. So it's not like Morey of all people went into it not expecting some kind of reaction. Still, the league defended his right to say it.

Yes it suddenly cost players money, and yes Morey could have thought about the impact on others before tweeting. I do wonder what was going through his head. LeBron did make some good points on behalf of the players in that article, though the argument that something ought to be done about Morey on the hypothetical that a player surely would have been reprimanded does not stand.

In a way this is a good opportunity for the league to get some clarity and consensus among ownership, FOs, and players about how to handle international engagements, and perhaps which ones to participate in, be it games or endorsements.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#179 » by E-Balla » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:08 pm

G35 wrote:

He's a hypocrite because he's been acting like he knows everything and is this social justice champion.

And the thing about social justice is you can't just stop at your cause...you have to fight for all causes.

Well no... You're literally arguing that everyone who's ever cared about anything is a hypocrite. This is some strong nihilism...

Take race, black people can't just fight for only black rights, or black oppression and stop if you get what you want. If you want universal support then you have to fight for everyone's rights.

Social justice is not "some" situation, because once you put qualifiers on social justice then you open the floodgates for people not to care. Your reason not to care does not trump my reason not to care. So when minorities, LGBTQ, females, etc complain about something and people say they do not care here in America, it should be okay with everyone. But we all know that is not true, because in recent years, if you do not support social justice then you are apart of the problem.

There's a gap between domestic social justice and international politics. The main difference being LeBron can do something about one of those things and not the other. Nothing LeBron can do will change the situation in Hong Kong. Period. Meanwhile him making more people aware in the US makes a difference.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/shawn-windsor/2019/10/16/lebron-james-china-hong-kong-protests/3991430002/

LeBron James was once told to shut up and dribble. He didn’t like it. Nor should he have.

"I get to sit up here and talk about social injustice,” he said, responding to comments from Fox News’ Laura Ingraham in 2018, a right-wing opinion-maker who didn’t like James’ description of President Trump as “laughable” and “scary.”

"We will definitely not shut up and dribble,” James promised.



As he said after Ingraham ripped him for not sticking to sports, when he explained he couldn’t shut up and dribble because he owed “too much to society, too much to the youth, too much to so many kids who feel like they don't have a way out.”


Yet moving forward, his off-court endeavors will be viewed more cynically, as a money play, and that’s too bad. Whether you have agreed with James’ views and causes, few have questioned his sincerity.

Well, the benefit of the doubt is gone. On Monday, in the span of a few minutes, he made clear that it’s about the money.

That’s fine. This is America.

But you either believe in social justice or you don’t.


The writer says it plainly and he defended Lebron and said his past social justice remarks still hold weight. But now, moving forward, Lebron and what he says will hold less weight because its based on money and not social justice.

And the writer is a damn fool that probably doesn't care about either issue.

Social justice does not have a specific country, race, religion, sex, gender attached to it. Lebron himself said he owed "too much to society" to not take a stand. Lebron set the standards and it was easy when there were no negative consequences. But now his words are very empty sounding the next time he decides to use his platform. He should have followed in Jordan's footsteps and stayed neutral.

Whenever you take a side you have to stand up for that side in all situations, you can't flip flop back and forth, it looks weak......

But he didn't flip flop. At all. You can't explain to me how he flip flopped or how his stance was because of the money or what he was supposed to do about HK. Like he said that's a fight for them, not him. He's an American, I don't think its hypocritical to want to clean your home before projecting your values onto other societies.
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Re: Lebron asked Silver what he would do about Morey - ESPN 

Post#180 » by TheNG » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:16 pm

It's very interesting how words can have consequences. I mean the only thing that happened is that a few people actually spoke their mind. So words can actually affect reality.
So here is my own little way to affect reality:
From now on, I will never go to watch a game if LeBron is a part of it.
In addition, I think it's a good time for me to drop LeBron a few places down in my all time GOAT list. It just doesn't feel right to me to think about such a weak personality as one of the greatest.
If you have more "Posts" than "And1", don't feel bad if I didn't reply to you - I just don't like to speak with people who argue a lot :beer:

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