It’s Only Preseason, But Clipss are stinking it up

[og15]

I honestly don't think the Clippers are in their final form. Jerry West and Doc Rivers are too smart to go into the playoffs with what they have at Point Guard and Center. I fully expect them to either upgrade at PG (Lowry) or Center (Gasol or Adams) in order to compete against the Lakers, Bucks or 76ers

The raptors would at least ask for a 1st round pick. Oh wait .... The clippers went all in, and this will be their actual roster for the year. They're not as talent as last year's Toronto team.

Oh wait... The Clippers didn't trade their own upcoming picks. The 76ers and Heat picks made up much of the deal. They have their own 2020 and 2021 picks.

Yup, Clippers still own 2020 and 2021, but 2021 can't be traded since 2022 was already traded to the Thunder, so 2020 pick is available. That will be the only available one for some time.

[lakerz12]

Funny how everyone overlooks them losing Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and he was arguably the most impactful rookie last season. They don’t have that 6’6 dynamic playmaker that can defend multiple positions anymore.

Big factor imo too

Clippers fans have not overlooked Shai.



This is from some Clippers forum.

Well those fans are clearly more rational and realistic.

It seems like the Clips fans we have on the General Board (though I know they do not represent the whole Clipper fan base) have already handed themselves the Title. And they say illogical things like, "we were a Playoff team last year and we added PG13 and Kawhi!"

[XxIronChainzxX]

Settle down sparky. I'm not a Clippers fan.

It still doesn't make sense for the Raptors to send the other part of their title team to LA for nothing, which is all that the Clippers have left at this point. I don't even know how they could match salaries for Lowry or Gasol without PG or Kawhi going back.

They shrewdly kept their own upcoming picks, in the Paul George deal. Most of the picks they traded were either 76er or Heat picks. They can still trade their own 1st rounder and they have multiple good players on value contracts.

Two quality players and 1st can get you a quality player. Don't tell me they can't get a Steven Adams, Valenciunus or expiring Gasol for that.

What good players? And those players on value contracts need to match salary. A 25-28th pick isn't an asset.

Maybe they can get JV - but that won't make them better. The Raptors are better off letting Gasol expire, even ignoring the issues between the teams. Same with the Thunder.

[LloydFree]

It still doesn't make sense for the Raptors to send the other part of their title team to LA for nothing, which is all that the Clippers have left at this point. I don't even know how they could match salaries for Lowry or Gasol without PG or Kawhi going back.

They shrewdly kept their own upcoming picks, in the Paul George deal. Most of the picks they traded were either 76er or Heat picks. They can still trade their own 1st rounder and they have multiple good players on value contracts.

Two quality players and 1st can get you a quality player. Don't tell me they can't get a Steven Adams, Valenciunus or expiring Gasol for that.

What good players? And those players on value contracts need to match salary. A 25-28th pick isn't an asset.

Maybe they can get JV - but that won't make them better. The Raptors are better off letting Gasol expire, even ignoring the issues between the teams. Same with the Thunder.

Come on, stop it. JayMichael Green, Zubac, Harkless, Mcgruder... are good bench players that are on good contracts.

JV is significantly better than Zubac. They could get him easily. And with OKC in rebuild, they likely get Steven Adams for almost nothing, just so OKC can shed salary.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Generally, teams who know what they are doing...don't start like this.

They don't have the option to sleep in on the season.

Don't start what like this? The pre-season where three of your starters and 4 of your best players aren't even in your top 10 in minutes played? The Clippers are sleeping on the season because of their pre-season record?

This BS that it's only pre season...like they are a team that's won in the past and know how to do it. No, they don't.

The overgrown sense of accomplishment is something we saw in the "lob city" days. It's not what championship teams do.

[Barnzy]

I expect the Lakers to outrebound them by at least 10-15 boards opening night.

Will be an very nteresting game.

[LakerLegend]

Preseason is a step above pickup, it means nothing for the players that matter.

[Pennebaker]

Preseason is a step above pickup, it means nothing for the players that matter.

The 2012-13 Dwight-Nash Lakers went 0-8 in the preseason and that mess translated.

[XxIronChainzxX]

They shrewdly kept their own upcoming picks, in the Paul George deal. Most of the picks they traded were either 76er or Heat picks. They can still trade their own 1st rounder and they have multiple good players on value contracts.

Two quality players and 1st can get you a quality player. Don't tell me they can't get a Steven Adams, Valenciunus or expiring Gasol for that.

What good players? And those players on value contracts need to match salary. A 25-28th pick isn't an asset.

Maybe they can get JV - but that won't make them better. The Raptors are better off letting Gasol expire, even ignoring the issues between the teams. Same with the Thunder.

Come on, stop it. JayMichael Green, Zubac, Harkless, Mcgruder... are good bench players that are on good contracts.

JV is significantly better than Zubac. They could get him easily. And with OKC in rebuild, they likely get Steven Adams for almost nothing, just so OKC can shed salary.

"[G]ood bench players" aren't headliners to trade a piece that would put a team over the top. And if they're not even as good as JV - a very flawed player in terms of his strength and weaknesses, they're not exactly worth a ton.

Plus, you still haven't explained how the Clippers are matching salary. Gasol and Adams make 26 million. Lowry makes 33 million each. I think you'd have to trade the entire team for them.

Just ballpark the salaries. Zubac makes 6 and is expiring. Harkless makes 11. Hazel makes 6. Green makes 4.5. Mcgrunder makes 4.5. That's 32 million give or take.

You'd have to trade all of them for Lowry and most of them for Gasol / Adams.

Even if OKC or Toronto liked the package for one guy and the Clippers gave up their pittance of picks, they'd have to utterly gut the team to do it.

[LloydFree]

What good players? And those players on value contracts need to match salary. A 25-28th pick isn't an asset.

Maybe they can get JV - but that won't make them better. The Raptors are better off letting Gasol expire, even ignoring the issues between the teams. Same with the Thunder.

Come on, stop it. JayMichael Green, Zubac, Harkless, Mcgruder... are good bench players that are on good contracts.

JV is significantly better than Zubac. They could get him easily. And with OKC in rebuild, they likely get Steven Adams for almost nothing, just so OKC can shed salary.

"[G]ood bench players" aren't headliners to trade a piece that would put a team over the top. And if they're not even as good as JV - a very flawed player in terms of his strength and weaknesses, they're not exactly worth a ton.

Plus, you still haven't explained how the Clippers are matching salary. Gasol and Adams make 26 million. Lowry makes 33 million each. I think you'd have to trade the entire team for them.

Just ballpark the salaries. Zubac makes 6 and is expiring. Harkless makes 11. Hazel makes 6. Green makes 4.5. Mcgrunder makes 4.5. That's 32 million give or take.

You'd have to trade all of them for Lowry and most of them for Gasol / Adams.

Even if OKC or Toronto liked the package for one guy and the Clippers gave up their pittance of picks, they'd have to utterly gut the team to do it.

I don't know if you know the salary matching rules or not (my instinct says you do but you're purposely being obtuse for some reason), but you only need to get up about 20m to get a 26m dollar player.

[jehosafats]

Funny how everyone overlooks them losing Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and he was arguably the most impactful rookie last season. They don’t have that 6’6 dynamic playmaker that can defend multiple positions anymore.

Addendum: now they don't have any playmakers

[og15]

Generally, teams who know what they are doing...don't start like this.

They don't have the option to sleep in on the season.

Don't start what like this? The pre-season where three of your starters and 4 of your best players aren't even in your top 10 in minutes played? The Clippers are sleeping on the season because of their pre-season record?

This BS that it's only pre season...like they are a team that's won in the past and know how to do it. No, they don't.

The overgrown sense of accomplishment is something we saw in the "lob city" days. It's not what championship teams do.

I think you have a conclusion you want to get to already and are getting carried away. It's only pre-season is true, and the record is irrelevant. The reasons are obvious, one main guy is out, the main rotation guys did not played much, and they were trying out young guys to see what they have.

So yes, it's just the pre-season, and it's not the pre-season that's going to prepare them to be a championship team, it's those 82 games before the playoffs, not the pre-season that's key. In fact it is absolutely irrelevant.

Let's look at the pre-season records of the recent conference finals teams:

18-19:
Raptors: 4-1
Bucks: 3-1
Warriors: 1-4
Blazers: 3-2

17-18:
Cavs: 1-4
Celtics: 4-0
Warriors 2-2
Rockets: 4-1

16-17:
Cavs: 2-4
Celtics: 5-2
Warriors: 6-1
Spurs: 4-2

15-16:
Cavs: 1-6
Raptors: 5-2
Warriors: 3-4
Thunder: 5-1

14-15:
Cavs: 5-2
Hawks: 4-3
Warriors: 6-2
Rockets: 6-2

13-14:
Heat: 5-3
Pacers: 3-5
Spurs: 3-4
Thunder: 4-3

12-13:
Heat: 4-4
Pacers: 4-3
Spurs: 4-3
Grizzlies: 4-4

11-12:
Heat: 1-1
Celtics: 2-0
Thunder: 2-0
Spurs: 1-1

10-11:
Heat: 3-4
Bulls: 4-4
Mavs: 4-4
Thunder: 4-3

No correlation to pre-season record and making the conference finals, winning the conference finals, making the finals or winning the finals, and that includes teams who have never won a championship before such as the 10-11 Heat and Mavs.

Btw, here's the record of the "lob city" Clippers in pre-season.
2-0, 5-3, 5-3, 2-6, 3-3, 3-3

Looks like they were winning their pre-season games initially, no "overgrown sense of accomplishment", 12-6 their first 3 seasons, then I don't know, maybe they realized it didn't matter and rested guys / tried out possible end of roster guys more. Not like those teams weren't putting effort in the regular season, they won 40/66 when they were initially put together and a much weaker team, then 56, 57 56.

Those teams lost because they weren't good enough, they had the smallest and least defensive talented wing rotation among top WC teams, one or both of the top guys had a significant playoff injury in 3/6 seasons they were together and their bench rarely had quality players; well, unless you consider having Crawford and Rivers as your 6th and 7th men for most of those seasons, "quality". If so, I'd be interested to know what team people would peg as a championship team with those two guys based on those years getting the 5-7th most minutes on a team.

[PhilBlackson]

Crazy how this is happening with Kawhi & PG playing big minutes...oh wait.

[Forte IV]

*Looks at who started the thread*

Ahh checks out.

*leaves*


Also before I really go I'll say this: I love how no one wanted to call Shai good when he was on the Clippers, but now that he's gone, he's some Steve Nash level play maker? Did y'all watch Clipper games????????? Stop spouting nonsense you have no business talking lol. Shai's skill set is his scoring not his play making. He was never some elite play maker that made the Clippers great. What made their offense great was the team effort. Stop embarrassing yourselves.

I've gotta say it's getting pretty funny seeing you complain in every thread that takes shots at the Clippers all while you surreptitiously do your own fair share of sniping (and sniper co-signing) towards other teams.

If it's embarrassing for guys to mindlessly throw slugs at the Clippers isn't it just as embarrassing (and hypocritical) for you to complain about it while on the low doing the same thing yourself?

Are you confusing me with someone else? Who exactly am I criticizing? I constantly praise tons of teams.

[Not Suave Rico]

The whole playmaking thing is overblown. I have much love for SGA, but really he was much better creating for himself than for others. Clippers moving Gallo/SGA for PG13/Kawhi actually gives us more playmaking.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Come on, stop it. JayMichael Green, Zubac, Harkless, Mcgruder... are good bench players that are on good contracts.

JV is significantly better than Zubac. They could get him easily. And with OKC in rebuild, they likely get Steven Adams for almost nothing, just so OKC can shed salary.

"[G]ood bench players" aren't headliners to trade a piece that would put a team over the top. And if they're not even as good as JV - a very flawed player in terms of his strength and weaknesses, they're not exactly worth a ton.

Plus, you still haven't explained how the Clippers are matching salary. Gasol and Adams make 26 million. Lowry makes 33 million each. I think you'd have to trade the entire team for them.

Just ballpark the salaries. Zubac makes 6 and is expiring. Harkless makes 11. Hazel makes 6. Green makes 4.5. Mcgrunder makes 4.5. That's 32 million give or take.

You'd have to trade all of them for Lowry and most of them for Gasol / Adams.

Even if OKC or Toronto liked the package for one guy and the Clippers gave up their pittance of picks, they'd have to utterly gut the team to do it.

I don't know if you know the salary matching rules or not (my instinct says you do but you're purposely being obtuse for some reason), but you only need to get up about 20m to get a 26m dollar player.

I think we're quibbling. Harkless / Hazel / (Zubac / Green / Mcgrunder) would get you a salary match for Gasol / Adams but that's most of your role players not counting a pick. I think you'd need everyone for Lowry.

Anyways, my point is that I just don't see how this works out.

[GuyverX]

Funny how everyone overlooks them losing Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and he was arguably the most impactful rookie last season. They don’t have that 6’6 dynamic playmaker that can defend multiple positions anymore.

Addendum: now they don't have any playmakers

The kid averaged 3 asst per game. He was great and I loved his game when he was on the team but his play-making was nothing to write home about. His poise, ability to create for himself and play D was where he shined. Beverley was the better overall PG and Lou Will was by far their best play-maker last year.

[KingFox]

They should blow it up and concede the conference to the Lakers who have looked sooooo good because they've managed to beat a not-the-same-not-nearly-as-good-injured Warriors team twice in preseason. The Lakers should then concede the league title to the Nets because they lost to them twice in preseason.

LOL

[spikeslovechild]

Pelicans are 5-0. AD who?

[Not Suave Rico]

I'd like to congratulate the Lakers on being such a good pre-season team.