Adrian Dantley - Isolation Master

[70sFan]

Meh...Durant is still the master of isolation

He's better shooter but also worse ball handler, post player and he can't draw fouls nearly as well.

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

When people talk about the greatest ISO scorer, they usually mention greats like Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Harden. There was one player who played in the 1980s that was arguably better than all of them and he rarely gets mentions.

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Watch on YouTube

When people talk about the greatest ISO scorer, they usually mention greats like Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Harden. There was one player who played in the 1980s that was arguably better than all of them and he rarely gets mentions.

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

[70sFan]

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

And yet, all 4 of those guys are known as isolation scorers, who had higher individual scoring seasons with 3 of them having more total points scored over their careers. You didn't start this thread by saying he was a more efficient scorer, you said he was arguably the best when compared to KD, Kobe, Jordan and Harden and that is flat out wrong. You're using your own parameters to determine who is the best iso scorer, when I'm simply pointing to the scoreboard.

Are you really going to ask what's so impressive about KD's handles in a thread where you're impressed by the defense being played against Dantley? Why is there such a disconnect between the things you say, and the things you post in video that are supposed to be impressive. You're not impressed by someone KD's size handling the ball the way he does, but you're impressed by a 10 foot cushion, 8 jab steps followed by a jumper? I guess you're a secret Carmelo Anthony fan then

[LloydFree]

Watch on YouTube

When people talk about the greatest ISO scorer, they usually mention greats like Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Harden. There was one player who played in the 1980s that was arguably better than all of them and he rarely gets mentions.

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

I appreciate your passion for the Era, because I grew up watching late 70's, 80's basketball, but you're going way overboard. Adrian Dantley was great in his era. Leave it at that. He wasn't better in isolation than players that came later. Today, at his size, he'd be a smarter Shabaz Muhammad, and fighting to stay on the court. He was great then, I doubt he would be great now, unfortunately.

[70sFan]

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

And yet, all 4 of those guys are known as isolation scorers, who had higher individual scoring seasons with 3 of them having more total points scored over their careers. You didn't start this thread by saying he was a more efficient scorer, you said he was arguably the best when compared to KD, Kobe, Jordan and Harden and that is flat out wrong. You're using your own parameters to determine who is the best iso scorer, when I'm simply pointing to the scoreboard.

Are you really going to ask what's so impressive about KD's handles in a thread where you're impressed by the defense being played against Dantley? Why is there such a disconnect between the things you say, and the things you post in video that are supposed to be impressive. You're not impressed by someone KD's size handling the ball the way he does, but you're impressed by a 10 foot cushion, 8 jab steps followed by a jumper? I guess you're a secret Carmelo Anthony fan then

If you think that I'm only impressed about jab steps from triple threat, then you haven't watched the whole video.

Dantley played less games than Kobe but his PPG average is basically the same (on much better efficiency). Durant has slightly higher average but he doesn't have any post-prime years in his legacy.

It still doesn't matter because you can't just look at PPG and conclude who's better iso scorer. There are more ways to score than just from isolation.

If you like raw stats though:

Dantley has 6 seasons with 28+ppg on 62+TS%
Durant has 3 such seasons.
Jordan, Kobe and Harden have 0 such seasons.

It's arbitrary, but it also shows how spectacular Dantley was as a scorer. He averaged 30 ppg on 63%TS in 7 seasons in Utah. It's not worse than any of these players.

[70sFan]

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

I appreciate your passion for the Era, because I grew up watching late 70's, 80's basketball, but you're going way overboard. Adrian Dantley was great in his era. Leave it at that. He wasn't better in isolation than players that came later. Today, at his size, he'd be a smarter Shabaz Muhammad, and fighting to stay on the court. He was great then, I doubt he would be great now, unfortunately.

He was small for his era too. He wasn't athletic for his era either. It doesn't make sense, he developed his game to thrive against much bigger and more athletic players than himself. He consistently faced big power forwards and dominated them. Size and athleticism didn't bother him and players aren't even bigger today than they used to be in the 1980s.

Again, respect to your opinion but this argument is illogical.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It still doesn't matter because you can't just look at PPG and conclude who's better iso scorer. There are more ways to score than just from isolation.

Yes we can, because the 4 people you named are known as isolation scorers which is exactly why you brought them up. You can't have it both ways, you can't set your own parameters after the fact, not when you said he was arguably the best isolation scorer after naming 4 prominent iso scorers. If your argument was that he was a more efficient isolation scorer, ok, maybe you can have that discussion but best? Nah.


If it were simply about scoring then LeBron would be in the discussion, but we're talking about isolation, which explains why you named 4 of the best isolation scorers ever. You can't change it up and try to play it off like they were/are doing things other than scoring in isolation now. Kobe and Jordan weren't using any screens to score the bulk of their points

[LloydFree]

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

I appreciate your passion for the Era, because I grew up watching late 70's, 80's basketball, but you're going way overboard. Adrian Dantley was great in his era. Leave it at that. He wasn't better in isolation than players that came later. Today, at his size, he'd be a smarter Shabaz Muhammad, and fighting to stay on the court. He was great then, I doubt he would be great now, unfortunately.

He was small for his era too. He wasn't athletic for his era either. It doesn't make sense, he developed his game to thrive against much bigger and more athletic players than himself. He consistently faced big power forwards and dominated them. Size and athleticism didn't bother him and players aren't even bigger today than they used to be in the 1980s.

Again, respect to your opinion but this argument is illogical.

All of that makes sense, but you're leaving out the rule changes and how the game is played now.

1. There was an illegal defense back then, so he could go to work down low 1-on-1 for half the 24 second clock. He can't do that now. That was over in 2002. Barkley, Moses, and bunch of guys would struggle with today's rules also.

2. Dantley wasn't a 3 point shooter, and he wouldn't be deployed on offense the same way at 6'5. The players you mentioned, could play both ways because they were bigger, faster and better shooters from the perimeter.

[mynameKIM]

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

Watch on YouTube

Play #1 and #2

He's 6'11 in shoes.

[Pennebaker]

Here's praise for Dantley's scoring prowess from 1986:



The best low post player in the league in 1986?
One of the best pivotmen ever?

On top of that, at the same time, Alex English dubbed Dantley the best scorer in the league.

Consider who was playing in 1986.

Dantley's game was subtle but pure. His style didn't change from 1969 to 1991 and the only thing that could stop him was time. So I believe Dantley would be great in any era.

[pr0wler]

1980's James Harden

[Roscoe Sheed]

It is sad people always have to denigrate the past. He was a great scorer in his era- let’s give him props. How he would fare in today’s game is a mystery nobody could solve because there is no such thing as a time machine. He had every conceivable skill you’d want from a scorer besides 3 point shooting. What is there to criticize?

[DoItALL9]

Nah.

You can disagree with that, but he definitely has a case over anybody in history in that aspect.

I appreciate your passion for the Era, because I grew up watching late 70's, 80's basketball, but you're going way overboard. Adrian Dantley was great in his era. Leave it at that. He wasn't better in isolation than players that came later. Today, at his size, he'd be a smarter Shabazz Muhammad, and fighting to stay on the court. He was great then, I doubt he would be great now, unfortunately.

Shabazz Muhammad? You believe a prime AD would possibly not make it in the league?
Secondly, what're your thoughts on prime Carmelo? prime DeMar DeRozan?

[70sFan]

It still doesn't matter because you can't just look at PPG and conclude who's better iso scorer. There are more ways to score than just from isolation.

Yes we can, because the 4 people you named are known as isolation scorers which is exactly why you brought them up. You can't have it both ways, you can't set your own parameters after the fact, not when you said he was arguably the best isolation scorer after naming 4 prominent iso scorers. If your argument was that he was a more efficient isolation scorer, ok, maybe you can have that discussion but best? Nah.


If it were simply about scoring then LeBron would be in the discussion, but we're talking about isolation, which explains why you named 4 of the best isolation scorers ever. You can't change it up and try to play it off like they were/are doing things other than scoring in isolation now. Kobe and Jordan weren't using any screens to score the bulk of their points

Jordan and Kobe certainly used a lot other ways to score than isolations, have you ever watched their games?

What do you define as "better"? If Dantley is more efficient on comparable volume, then he is better. You mean better as more pleasent to watch? More skilled? Objectively, someone who scores more efficient is better, even if you don't like watching him.

[70sFan]

I appreciate your passion for the Era, because I grew up watching late 70's, 80's basketball, but you're going way overboard. Adrian Dantley was great in his era. Leave it at that. He wasn't better in isolation than players that came later. Today, at his size, he'd be a smarter Shabaz Muhammad, and fighting to stay on the court. He was great then, I doubt he would be great now, unfortunately.

He was small for his era too. He wasn't athletic for his era either. It doesn't make sense, he developed his game to thrive against much bigger and more athletic players than himself. He consistently faced big power forwards and dominated them. Size and athleticism didn't bother him and players aren't even bigger today than they used to be in the 1980s.

Again, respect to your opinion but this argument is illogical.

All of that makes sense, but you're leaving out the rule changes and how the game is played now.

1. There was an illegal defense back then, so he could go to work down low 1-on-1 for half the 24 second clock. He can't do that now. That was over in 2002. Barkley, Moses, and bunch of guys would struggle with today's rules also.

2. Dantley wasn't a 3 point shooter, and he wouldn't be deployed on offense the same way at 6'5. The players you mentioned, could play both ways because they were bigger, faster and better shooters from the perimeter.

First point is true, but Dantley played before illegal defense era and he was still extremely efficient scorer (and he was before prime). He didn't need to play that way, in Lakers he didn't kill the shotclock. I'm sure someone as skilled as him would adjust to this change.

Second point is weak in my opinion, because players didn't shoot threes back then. He was elite midrange and FT shooter, he was one of the most refined scorers ever. Do you really think that adding three point shot would be impossible for him? This guy had legendary work ethic and was known for working years on his game. Three point shot wouldn't be a problem for him.

[70sFan]

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

Watch on YouTube

Play #1 and #2

He's 6'11 in shoes.

On #2 play he almost lost the ball during dribbling, then carried the ball heavily to avoid losing the ball.
#1 play is a clear example of carrying that isn't called anymore. Yeah, it's impressive for his size but it's nothing impressive for a 6'5 forward. Do you really think that Dantley couldn't make these moves? With 2010s handle rules? Don't be a fool...

[CIN-C-STAR]

He has no case over those 4 guys, you named 4 people who each have higher individual scoring seasons, 3 of which have scored more total points in their careers and Harden should pass him next season barring injury.

Saying he had a better handle than Durant doesn't make any type of sense either, post game sure, better handle? On what planet?

Dantley averaged 30 ppg on 64% TS in 1980-84 period. Durant had only 2 seasons over 30 ppg and he was less efficient in both cases than AD. Kobe was far less efficient, so was Jordan. I'm also not saying overall scorer, but isolation scorer only.

What is so impressive about KD handles? Show me things he can do that Dantley wasn't able to do. KD handles is a mistery for me, every time I watch him I come out as unimpressed. Yet people marvel at it when in fact it's probably his biggest offensive weakness. Dantley had efficient handles, he got the ball rarely stolen and he couls beat you off the dribble.

And yet, all 4 of those guys are known as isolation scorers, who had higher individual scoring seasons with 3 of them having more total points scored over their careers. You didn't start this thread by saying he was a more efficient scorer, you said he was arguably the best when compared to KD, Kobe, Jordan and Harden and that is flat out wrong. You're using your own parameters to determine who is the best iso scorer, when I'm simply pointing to the scoreboard.

Are you really going to ask what's so impressive about KD's handles in a thread where you're impressed by the defense being played against Dantley? Why is there such a disconnect between the things you say, and the things you post in video that are supposed to be impressive. You're not impressed by someone KD's size handling the ball the way he does, but you're impressed by a 10 foot cushion, 8 jab steps followed by a jumper? I guess you're a secret Carmelo Anthony fan then

I've no skin in this fight, but I've never been too impressed by KD's handles either tbh.
He can do a basic crossover to either side, which is nice. Maybe a very basic in-and-out dribble into a shot. That's good.
Not a whole lot past that though.
You did say "for his size," and yeah sure he has good handles for a center, but he doesn't play center. He's got OK handles for a wing, and good handles for a stretch 4, which is where he really plays. But it's not like he's some GOAT ball handler out there slicing ankles and making dudes look silly. People rave about his ball handling though like it's so epic or something i don't get it tbh

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

When people talk about the greatest ISO scorer, they usually mention greats like Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Harden. There was one player who played in the 1980s that was arguably better than all of them and he rarely gets mentions.

Listed at 6'5, Dantley was never the fastest or most athletic player on the floor. He didn't even try to dunk the ball and had one of the slowest releases in NBA history. It's even more suprising that he made his career as a post up scoring forward, who consistently faced much bigger, stronger and more athletic players.

Instead of overpowering or outquicking opponents, Dantley used his mind to break down defenses. Patience is his strength, he could wait years for one opening, one minor mistake and after that you couldn't have done anything to stop him. That along with unmatched ability to use his wide frame enabled him to make the best defenders in the league look like complete fools.

When thinking of ability to draw fouls, most people immediatly think about James Harden. Dantley was Harden 30 years before Harden in that aspect - he used his arms and elbows to draw contact, he dribbled the ball very high to fool defenders that they could steal it, he mastered the pump fake better than anybody in NBA history.

The video is splitted into three categories - midrange game, drives and post ups. Enjoy the master in work!

Do you feel he was used properly during his career?

The Pistons won their title after he was traded. Is this notable in your opinion?

Is there a particular team you would've liked to have seen him with such as the Kings, Suns, Spurs, Blazers, Pacers, Nets, or Cavaliers?

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It's tough to say, he had different roles in different teams. The Pistons won the title without him because they faced much weaker competition in 1989 than in 1988. Dantley was Pistons best offensive player in 1988 finals and they almost won it anyway. In 1989 they played much weaker Lakers team with injured Magic and nothing like 1988 Celtics in the East.

I just think that Dantley was unlucky. He spent most of his career in very weak Jazz team and he deserved a ring as a Piston.