Matisse Thybulle Defense

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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#61 » by knuckles862 » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:26 pm

I keep seeing his on ball defense is just average but that's not true he struggles to get around screens that part is true but without screens defenders cannot blow by him and if they aren't protecting the ball he will find a way to pick it
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#62 » by Bologna Smasher » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:36 pm

Not surprised by this. His numbers were a bit of an enigma in college, plus he passed the eye test.

Funny seeing this, was just taking a look at NBA 2K20's roster last night and decided to fix the 76ers ratings, tendencies and badges. It's a bit of a problem trying to fix Thybulle's defense ratings and badges without his overall blowing up.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#63 » by IAMZOOTED2 » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:40 pm

youngcrev wrote:From Lowe's latest article:

But he is already special on defense. I can't remember the last rookie wing to move with such liquid grace and speed. Maybe Kawhi? Thybulle is barely logging 20 minutes per game, and he leads the league in both steals and deflections


He's got a long way to go offensively (shot actually looks good, so we'll see if it starts falling), but man, this kid is impressive on defense. He reads passing lanes like nothing I've ever seen, yet has the recovery ability to get back in position when he misses (those blocks from behind must drive guys crazy). And it's not like he's just wreaking havoc off ball, as he's been tasked with guarding guys like Kemba and Trae from day 1.

I'm legitimately wondering if he's got a shot at making an all defensive team as a rookie bench player.



This rookie class in general has been impressive.


So... there are folks who claim the sixers got fleeced in the Shamet trade. I am not one of them, but critics have said it... Anyhow, if Thybulle pops, does that let Brand off the hook sort of for letting Shamet go in what some have called a heist. I think Brand low-key has done a pretty kick ass job. Also, was he the foo that opted to keep Korky around? Well done, AGAIN
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#64 » by youngcrev » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:42 pm

Bologna Smasher wrote:Not surprised by this. His numbers were a bit of an enigma in college, plus he passed the eye test.

Funny seeing this, was just taking a look at NBA 2K20's roster last night and decided to fix the 76ers ratings, tendencies and badges. It's a bit of a problem trying to fix Thybulle's defense ratings and badges without his overall blowing up.


Just make his layups like a 4 overall.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#65 » by kuclas » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:49 pm

He’s like Andre Roberson who was an excellent defender before his injuries.

Would that be the accurate comparison?

I know Roberson sucks at free throws. But he was excellent defender. And what could have been with okc and Westbrook/George. Okc could have used him in the 2018 playoffs.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#66 » by Jabroni Lames » Sun Nov 3, 2019 2:58 pm

His ORTG is 70 and he's shooting 25% from 3. In the playoffs, it would be a challenge to play Thybulle and Ben Simmons together on offense, unless you had a big lead.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#67 » by youngcrev » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:02 pm

IAMZOOTED2 wrote:
So... there are folks who claim the sixers got fleeced in the Shamet trade. I am not one of them, but critics have said it... Anyhow, if Thybulle pops, does that let Brand off the hook sort of for letting Shamet go in what some have called a heist. I think Brand low-key has done a pretty kick ass job. Also, was he the foo that opted to keep Korky around? Well done, AGAIN


I mean, Tobias Harris was clearly the best player in the deal, so it feels awkward to refer to it as the "Shamet trade" in the first place. That's like calling the other deal the Clippers made the "Shai Gilgeous-Alexander trade."

The Sixers overpaid for a pending FA who they had to overpay to keep. It would of been great if they could of negotiated better trade terms that kept Shamet on the team, as he'd be perfect off the bench right now, but I don't think they'd flat out undo the deal either if they could given the spot they are in right now.

Overpays are fine if they work out. The trade to move up to get Thybulle was seen as an overpay at the time too. Not picking up Korkmaz rookie option was seen as a bone headed move too, and then he got him to come back for less money with an extra cost controlled year. He's done some anti-process type stuff, but the bottom line is that this is a results driven business, and if he puts together a winning team, that trumps everything.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#68 » by youngcrev » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:10 pm

Jabroni Lames wrote:His ORTG is 70 and he's shooting 25% from 3. In the playoffs, it would be a challenge to play Thybulle and Ben Simmons together on offense, unless you had a big lead.


Through 5 game. On 19 attempts. We'll see if the shot starts to fall. But yes, he'd be difficult to play a lot of minutes if his offense doesn't come together. He wasn't able to stay on the floor last night against a Portland team that couldn't miss.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#69 » by sixerswillrule » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:13 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Bologna Smasher wrote:Not surprised by this. His numbers were a bit of an enigma in college, plus he passed the eye test.

Funny seeing this, was just taking a look at NBA 2K20's roster last night and decided to fix the 76ers ratings, tendencies and badges. It's a bit of a problem trying to fix Thybulle's defense ratings and badges without his overall blowing up.


Just make his layups like a 4 overall.


The play at the 1 minute mark is a good example of his defense + offense

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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#70 » by youngcrev » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:16 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Bologna Smasher wrote:Not surprised by this. His numbers were a bit of an enigma in college, plus he passed the eye test.

Funny seeing this, was just taking a look at NBA 2K20's roster last night and decided to fix the 76ers ratings, tendencies and badges. It's a bit of a problem trying to fix Thybulle's defense ratings and badges without his overall blowing up.


Just make his layups like a 4 overall.


The play at the 1 minute mark is a good example of his defense + offense



:lol:
The exact play I had in mind
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#71 » by draftnightsuit » Sun Nov 3, 2019 4:38 pm

freethedevil wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:His on ball defense is average. He’s a defensive playmaker that cuts lanes and gets steals and blocks.

His defensive IQ is high though.

man defense<<<<<defensive playmaking


Agreed.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#72 » by PockyCandy » Sun Nov 3, 2019 4:49 pm

So after watching the game, I can say I was surprised by what I saw. Like everyone seems to be saying in this thread, his man-to-man defense was pretty average (although he got screwed over by his big-man leaving him to dry on the high ball screen at least a few times). But damn, his ability to blow up plays away from the ball was pretty fantastic. He's like a larger Marcus Smart in that regard.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#73 » by blargh » Sun Nov 3, 2019 5:15 pm

I thought he got a bit of a rookie lesson guarding Lillard in the 4th quarter, but there’s no shame in that on your 5th game. He still needs to learn to navigate those high screens against guys who can launch from anywhere: James Ennis did a better job for the Sixers last night in those same situations.

This Sixers D will be very good, but I think truly dominating defenses take some time to gel: you can see they’re still talking through some of the coverages during the games. If they keep this group through next year, it could be legendary.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#74 » by robbie84 » Sun Nov 3, 2019 8:53 pm

SkyHookFTW wrote:
robbie84 wrote:Kids a stud but he's got nothing on Marcus Smart.

Maybe he'll work on his flopping skills.


Maybe he'll get NBA All-Defensive first team like Marcus one day. Probably not, but one can dream.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#75 » by robbie84 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 1:15 am

Marcus wrote:Just the mere fact that he wants it this bad and legit takes pride in making these kinds of plays is the most impressive part to me. He legit wants to be this guy. It's Rodman esque in that sense.



You guys really need to watch a Marcus Smart highlight reel. He's even better than Thybulle.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#76 » by abark » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:11 am

jpengland wrote:
abark wrote:
HotelVitale wrote: Love Thybulle but I'd pump the brakes--a big chunk of his steals come from a few moves that ballhandlers should be able to get wise to, even if many of them just come from great anticipation and quick hands. I think he's still a really good defender beyond the stats but I'd caution against hyperbole based just on his steal/block, which is generally a bad way to measure defense anyway.

I understand there's a lot more to defense than blocks and steals, but I don't think it's hyperbole. He is simply a great all around defender, whether we are talking man or help D.

He currently has the highest DBPM in the league at +9.1 right now.

I know he has a long way to go on the offensive end to get to the point where he isn't a significant liability.

But I've seen all his preseason and regular season games, and truly believe this guy is special on the defensive end.


I think the key difference (other than making smart gambles) is his recovery ability. Most guys with large steals/blocks and poor overall defensive impact are those guys who gamble and put themselves out of the play. This guy gambles and has the ability to recover that well that he's still in the play and sometimes even more dangerous as the offense doesn't know where he is.

It's obviously a tiny sample size but he looks like something we haven't really seen before.

Exactly. He's definitely a gambler, but he also calculates when to do it well. Even when he misses he often remains a threat.

I've seen him miss on a steal, only to recover and block the shot from behind multiple times.

These are not the empty Allen Iverson type steals numbers that many players put up.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#77 » by Clay Davis » Mon Nov 4, 2019 6:35 am

abark wrote:
jpengland wrote:
abark wrote:I understand there's a lot more to defense than blocks and steals, but I don't think it's hyperbole. He is simply a great all around defender, whether we are talking man or help D.

He currently has the highest DBPM in the league at +9.1 right now.

I know he has a long way to go on the offensive end to get to the point where he isn't a significant liability.

But I've seen all his preseason and regular season games, and truly believe this guy is special on the defensive end.


I think the key difference (other than making smart gambles) is his recovery ability. Most guys with large steals/blocks and poor overall defensive impact are those guys who gamble and put themselves out of the play. This guy gambles and has the ability to recover that well that he's still in the play and sometimes even more dangerous as the offense doesn't know where he is.

It's obviously a tiny sample size but he looks like something we haven't really seen before.

Exactly. He's definitely a gambler, but he also calculates when to do it well. Even when he misses he often remains a threat.

I've seen him miss on a steal, only to recover and block the shot from behind multiple times.

These are not the empty Allen Iverson type steals numbers that many players put up.


I think he's a really good defender and a lot of that comes from his tendency to use his really quick hands. A lot of players kind of fumble for steals but it seems like he has this ability to get right into the pocket and immediately start a live dribble.

It's really hard to play handy defense against extremely savvy offensive players who know how to draw fouls. It'll be interesting to see how he plays against guys like Harden or Derozan who know how to make a living at the line. It'll also be interesting to see how he's able to deal with someone with god-tier handles, such as Kyrie, or who is strong enough to always maintain a strong grip on the ball, like Giannis, Lebron, or Kawhi.

Needless to say, any primary or secondary ball-handler who isn't elite will be very easily neutralized by him. He's nimble enough to not get destroyed by screens and has a very, very good ability to know WHEN to attack.

At first I was thinking that he's kind of like an OG Anunoby-type defender (very switchable, primary assignment type of guy who can effectively play passing lanes), which is a great sign for him since he's like 6 games into the season and being compared to someone who I think is a very good defender, but I think they're actually quite different. OG isn't as good with his hands but he's more physical and able to be more imposing closer to the rim. He can pressure with his mass. I think Thybulle has to mature a bit physically. Another thing that's really important is for him to become a decent offensive player. If you're a step slow in getting a good read, the ability of your defense to turn into good offense will be severely hamstrung since by the time you've made your read, the opposing team has had a step or two to get back to their net. His finishing is not very good, so it's not like he can reliably just run to the rim. Hopefully he develops some good chemistry with Simmons.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#78 » by HotelVitale » Mon Nov 4, 2019 1:19 pm

abark wrote:
jpengland wrote: I think the key difference (other than making smart gambles) is his recovery ability. Most guys with large steals/blocks and poor overall defensive impact are those guys who gamble and put themselves out of the play. This guy gambles and has the ability to recover that well that he's still in the play and sometimes even more dangerous as the offense doesn't know where he is. It's obviously a tiny sample size but he looks like something we haven't really seen before.

Exactly. He's definitely a gambler, but he also calculates when to do it well. Even when he misses he often remains a threat. I've seen him miss on a steal, only to recover and block the shot from behind multiple times. These are not the empty Allen Iverson type steals numbers that many players put up.


You can be not a fake stats guy and still be overrated by stats, seems like you might be doing some reductio ad absurdum. Thybulle is clearly a good defensive player but I don't think he's been a league-best guy this year, don't even think he's been as good as Simmons or Richardson at most times. He's not strong and his lateral quickness isn't elite and he's still learning his way around picks (which often destroy him), and he doesn't really smother perimeter guys. He's very active and tries to think ahead in the play a move or two but I don't think he has the sort of overall effect people are talking about here. Thinks it better to give him some time to develop that.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#79 » by Marcus » Mon Nov 4, 2019 1:25 pm

robbie84 wrote:
Marcus wrote:Just the mere fact that he wants it this bad and legit takes pride in making these kinds of plays is the most impressive part to me. He legit wants to be this guy. It's Rodman esque in that sense.



You guys really need to watch a Marcus Smart highlight reel. He's even better than Thybulle.


Been watching Marcus since ok state. Well aware of how good he is.
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Re: Matisse Thybulle Defense 

Post#80 » by Ballings7 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 1:17 am

intriguing, no doubt.. love uniquely attributed wing defenders -- heard about him from the draft and thats it.. honestly haven't seen any footage of him yet. Will be a great role player to Philly's main guys.

Going to keep an eye on him... but this talk of "best perimeter defender in league" and "all-defensive team as rookie" is ridiculous. Until he starts making a real impact weekly in the 4th quarter, and then in the playoffs? Can't take that seriously.
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