MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

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Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?

Antetokounmpo
253
51%
James
53
11%
Walker
4
1%
Doncic
117
24%
Harden
27
5%
Siakam
12
2%
Jokic
4
1%
Leonard
5
1%
Davis
17
3%
Towns
5
1%
 
Total votes: 497

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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#181 » by LikeABosh » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:57 am

RB34 wrote:I don’t think there is any way LBJ wins the MVP when there is someone averaging 26/10 on his team.


It doesn't completely rule it out. I don't think it's similar to KD never being able to win a MVP with Golden State because unlike that situation, the Lakers are still really dependent on LeBron. It's a great supporting cast, but I doubt they would be a playoff team without him. If he can win 2 MVP's in Miami with Wade and Bosh then he can win one in LA
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#182 » by WarriorGM » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:59 am

RB34 wrote:I don’t think there is any way LBJ wins the MVP when there is someone averaging 26/10 on his team.


You greatly underestimate the media love affair with him.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#183 » by Triples333 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:06 am

WarriorGM wrote:
RB34 wrote:I don’t think there is any way LBJ wins the MVP when there is someone averaging 26/10 on his team.


You greatly underestimate the media love affair with him.

For sports bettors out there, this is fact. Do not underestimate the late career/LA LeBron narrative. Giannis will have to be clearly/massively better than a well rested LeBron to win. The thing is, he already is. And LeBron is off the biggest vacation of his life. He will tire soon enough. Giannis isn't going anywhere.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#184 » by SeniorWalker » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:33 am

LBJ has the "old and still great" narrative on his side. If the lakers finish with a better record than the bucks or clippers he is getting it. I'm quite sure of that. But its early and the lakers havent faced many tests yet, including their own endurance.

If the bucks have the better record and Giannis keep up his current level, he'll go back to back.

I dont think AD can get it with LeBron being considered the better player. Kawhi will miss too many games. Nobody else will have the individual production.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#185 » by jehosafats » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 am

LeVideo Game James = MVP 19-'20
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#186 » by Infinite Llamas » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:19 am

No way giannis wins if the Bucks don't win the east. That's all I'm gonna say.

Whichever team comes out of the west will have the best narrative since that conference is a bloodbath
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#187 » by Perseus1966 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:32 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:No way giannis wins if the Bucks don't win the east. That's all I'm gonna say.

Whichever team comes out of the west will have the best narrative since that conference is a bloodbath

yes ,Spurs look so dangerous west is bloodpath
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#188 » by Buzzard » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:55 am

I think its between LeBron and Giannis right now. I picked LeBron; and like SVG's take on Kawhi, Embiid, and anyone else who misses a lot of games. How can you be most valuable if you have no impact for 20 missed games ( 25% of the season )?
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#189 » by Heej » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:56 am

Will be interested to see if Giannis keeps it up. He generally starts the season strong, and we consistently see this with the guys who play in FIBA stuff over the summer. They come in already in game shape or close enough to it and blow up the first few months of the season, then the rest of the league catches up and gets into the swing of things. As far as I remember, Giannis has yet to complete an entire season playing as well as he does the first 3 months. AD and Paul George are two other notoriously hot starters that I've observed over the years.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#190 » by Dupp » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:13 am

Harden on the other hand is a slow starter. He will enter the conversation for sure. Dudes numbers are pretty insane anyway and he’s not yet considered.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#191 » by LikeABosh » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:24 am

Heej wrote:As far as I remember, Giannis has yet to complete an entire season playing as well as he does the first 3 months.


First 3 months (33 games) : 26.6 pts | 12.8 reb | 6.1 ast | .636 TS%

Last 4 months ( 39 games) : 28.6 pts | 12.3 reb | 5.7 ast | .651 TS%

Seems like he had a pretty complete season last year. You don't win MVPs by cooling off for the last 4 months of the year
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#192 » by XTraderXL » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:51 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:No way giannis wins if the Bucks don't win the east. That's all I'm gonna say.

Whichever team comes out of the west will have the best narrative since that conference is a bloodbath



The votes are cast before conference finals so winning the East has nothing to do with MVP.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#193 » by ken6199 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:00 am

In reality I would write off Embiid's chance even before the season starts. That Philly team is 1) too stacked to have that "this dude is carrying them" feel - sometimes some other guy will step up and win a game for them here and there, and 2) honestly I either don't have confidence on his durability, or Philly will start load manage him as the season progresses. That's not a knock on Embiid in any way, it's just how voters approach this whole thing.

I would put my money on Jokic or Doncic over Embiid with the hope that one of Denver/Dallas goes on an insane run in the 2nd part of the season to put them in contention.

Also it's funny to see Harden goes the same 18-19 route all over again. Start slow, team sucks, hovering in that 5-10 range while keep filling that stat sheet, then the same old story of "ahhh he turned it around for them".
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#194 » by LoneyROY » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:25 am

ken6199 wrote:In reality I would write off Embiid's chance even before the season starts. That Philly team is 1) too stacked to have that "this dude is carrying them" feel - sometimes some other guy will step up and win a game for them here and there, and 2) honestly I either don't have confidence on his durability, or Philly will start load manage him as the season progresses. That's not a knock on Embiid in any way, it's just how voters approach this whole thing.

I would put my money on Jokic or Doncic over Embiid with the hope that one of Denver/Dallas goes on an insane run in the 2nd part of the season to put them in contention.

Also it's funny to see Harden goes the same 18-19 route all over again. Start slow, team sucks, hovering in that 5-10 range while keep filling that stat sheet, then the same old story of "ahhh he turned it around for them".


Rockets are in the 3rd seed right now. All James needs to do is get his overall efficiency back to his normal rates and he'll be right there.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#195 » by LeBird » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:31 am

Dupp wrote:Harden on the other hand is a slow starter. He will enter the conversation for sure. Dudes numbers are pretty insane anyway and he’s not yet considered.


Harden is a pretender who utilises his lack of shame to abuse the game for numbers. Giving him something for his, still, admittedly great numbers was an acceptable narrative push at one point. But he got anointed and went to the playoffs and did f-all, multiple times. If he was the offensive juggernaut Morey et al think he is he would breeze it and and would have won a ring by now. He had the narrative before but what now? He's ugly to watch, ineffective when it counts, and has already won the award so there is no push for him as if they are denying a transcendent talent.

If the Lakers get 1-2 seed, LeBron should get it if he continues in the same vein of the last decade. Doing what he is doing at his age and milage is no joke. This isn't some Duncan thing where he is playing great for his age on limited minutes or what have you. He is legit top 2-3 players in the league, playing leading star minutes and having leading star influence.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#196 » by Triples333 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:09 pm

Heej wrote:Will be interested to see if Giannis keeps it up. He generally starts the season strong, and we consistently see this with the guys who play in FIBA stuff over the summer. They come in already in game shape or close enough to it and blow up the first few months of the season, then the rest of the league catches up and gets into the swing of things. As far as I remember, Giannis has yet to complete an entire season playing as well as he does the first 3 months. AD and Paul George are two other notoriously hot starters that I've observed over the years.

Just checked his career pre/post All Star and they appear to be very similar.

Last season through his first 41 games he averaged 26.7/12.6/5.9 with 4.1 TO on 58/17/70.
Through his last 41 games he averaged 28.9/12.1/5.8 with 3.3 TO on 58/33/76. So, better in the 2nd half.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#197 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:10 pm

I think people overreact on the narrative aspect. Giannis didn't win mvp last year because he had the best narrative. It was because he was on of the best two players last year and the narrative gave him the tie breaker. You still need a ticket to the show. Yeah James has the best narrative this year but he still has to put these numbers for another 60 games without getting injured. That's the hard part.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#198 » by Triples333 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:08 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:I think people overreact on the narrative aspect. Giannis didn't win mvp last year because he had the best narrative. It was because he was on of the best two players last year and the narrative gave him the tie breaker. You still need a ticket to the show. Yeah James has the best narrative this year but he still has to put these numbers for another 60 games without getting injured. That's the hard part.

James being LeBron? In reality I don't think he has a very good narrative unless AD goes down for a period and he carries them. As is his best narrative is simply how popular he is and how many more ABC/TNT/ESPN games the Lakers have. Not to say he has not been playing great, he has. But that's a separate topic.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#199 » by Triples333 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:31 pm

I'd also throw in that while the Blazers have a terrible D and CJ has been abysmal, Lillard has been putting up elite MVP production. You could argue he has been the best offensive player in the league in the early going. Basically 33/5/5+ 50/40/90 and leads all players in WinShares/Obpm. We'll see if the team around him can lend a hand, we know they're capable of much better than this.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#200 » by MisterHibachi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:15 pm

Lakers were widely predicted to be a middle tier playoff team before the season. Some people even had them in the lower seeds or even out of the playoffs. If they finish with a top 3 record, that's wildly outperforming expectations and that kind of stuff is usually rewarded in MVP votes.
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