MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I]

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Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?

Harden
11
4%
LeBron
89
29%
Davis
15
5%
Embiid
7
2%
Giannis
90
29%
Kawhi
29
9%
Jokić
3
1%
KAT
6
2%
Lillard
7
2%
Dončić
52
17%
 
Total votes: 309

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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#81 » by juju14 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 5:22 am

Crives wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Crives wrote:
I could argue against your numbers... but I will just point out that you named 6 players in a 10 person poll. Booker absolutely deserves to be in the conversation after his performance these first 7 games.


Booker has a PER of 21.4, a BPM of 3.2, and is a poor defender. His on/off is +0.7. He’s not even close to being close to being an MVP candidate. Honestly, Aron Baynes has probably been the MVP of the Suns this far.


Have you watched Booker this year? Calling Booker a poor defender leads me to believe that you have not.

He led the suns to victory against the supposed best team in each conference with an amazing performance. And has been the best player on one of the most impressive teams these first 7 games. I already posted the team/individual stats..

Please don’t try to use all in one regression stats this early in the season. Baynes has been great but he’s far from Books level. Please read up on collinearity if you want to know why stats like BPM are silly, especially after 7 games. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&source=hp&ei=NlXCXcXpH5TD0PEP_LOOwAQ&q=collinearity&oq=colinearity&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i10l8.2213.6639..7630...0.0..0.127.1067.6j5......0....1.......0..0j46i131j0i131j46j46i275j0i131i155.ugrmIqjlsio

Booker hsmas been a better defender, but i doubt hea plus. Bpm and when RAPM comes out i doubt he will be a + either. Bpm does got him playing better defense through, but he was coming from teally bad to bad now.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#82 » by Crives » Wed Nov 6, 2019 5:27 am

juju14 wrote:
Crives wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Booker has a PER of 21.4, a BPM of 3.2, and is a poor defender. His on/off is +0.7. He’s not even close to being close to being an MVP candidate. Honestly, Aron Baynes has probably been the MVP of the Suns this far.


Have you watched Booker this year? Calling Booker a poor defender leads me to believe that you have not.

He led the suns to victory against the supposed best team in each conference with an amazing performance. And has been the best player on one of the most impressive teams these first 7 games. I already posted the team/individual stats..

Please don’t try to use all in one regression stats this early in the season. Baynes has been great but he’s far from Books level. Please read up on collinearity if you want to know why stats like BPM are silly, especially after 7 games. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&source=hp&ei=NlXCXcXpH5TD0PEP_LOOwAQ&q=collinearity&oq=colinearity&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i10l8.2213.6639..7630...0.0..0.127.1067.6j5......0....1.......0..0j46i131j0i131j46j46i275j0i131i155.ugrmIqjlsio

Booker hsmas been a better defender, but i doubt hea plus. Bpm and when RAPM comes out i doubt he will be a + either. Bpm does got him playing better defense through, but he was coming from teally bad to bad now.


BPM is worthless with a 7 game sample size.

Eye test shows Booker is holding his own on defense. And as a team we have a top 10 defense while playing one of the toughest schedules to date.

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#83 » by Barnzy » Wed Nov 6, 2019 5:28 am

LeBron James clear cut mvp right now.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#84 » by juju14 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:51 am

Crives wrote:
juju14 wrote:
Crives wrote:
Have you watched Booker this year? Calling Booker a poor defender leads me to believe that you have not.

He led the suns to victory against the supposed best team in each conference with an amazing performance. And has been the best player on one of the most impressive teams these first 7 games. I already posted the team/individual stats..

Please don’t try to use all in one regression stats this early in the season. Baynes has been great but he’s far from Books level. Please read up on collinearity if you want to know why stats like BPM are silly, especially after 7 games. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&source=hp&ei=NlXCXcXpH5TD0PEP_LOOwAQ&q=collinearity&oq=colinearity&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i10l8.2213.6639..7630...0.0..0.127.1067.6j5......0....1.......0..0j46i131j0i131j46j46i275j0i131i155.ugrmIqjlsio

Booker hsmas been a better defender, but i doubt hea plus. Bpm and when RAPM comes out i doubt he will be a + either. Bpm does got him playing better defense through, but he was coming from teally bad to bad now.


BPM is worthless with a 7 game sample size.

Eye test shows Booker is holding his own on defense. And as a team we have a top 10 defense while playing one of the toughest schedules to date.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Finding a clip of someone playing defense on one possession doesn't mean they are good. Lmao you realize their is like over 40+ defensive possessions a game right? You know 1 on 1 defense isn't the only thing right. Defense is denying, fighting over screens, recovering, not losing your man on cuts,pnr defense etc.... also no my eye test doesn't show Devin has a + defender because i actually watch defense not one play. He is showing more effort on that side of the ball through.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#85 » by asdfgh » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:20 am

LeBird wrote:
asdfgh wrote:Lebron? Seriously? He's still useful, but he has clearly regressed and is the 2nd option on his own team. How the hell is he going to be the MVP?
I'm sure there will be some challengers who are not listed in the poll.


Your opinion is about as half-assed as your username. LeBron is still at least on par with any player in the league.


Do you even know what that means?
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#86 » by RB34 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:21 am

Barnzy wrote:LeBron James clear cut mvp right now.


Why is that?

Giannis is averaging 27/14/7 and is only 1 game back overall.

Luka is averaging 26/10/9 and doesn’t have someone that put up 40/20.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#87 » by Triples333 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:41 am

There is no clear cut MVP 6/7 games into the season lol. Especially when a host of players are putting up absurd numbers for winning teams. It's honestly super silly/meaningless to even have this thread in the first month of the season, but it's fun enough to discuss that who cares.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#88 » by TheHartBreakKid » Wed Nov 6, 2019 10:30 am

This thread is getting fun.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#89 » by Knosh » Wed Nov 6, 2019 12:11 pm

Crives wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Crives wrote:
I could argue against your numbers... but I will just point out that you named 6 players in a 10 person poll. Booker absolutely deserves to be in the conversation after his performance these first 7 games.


Booker has a PER of 21.4, a BPM of 3.2, and is a poor defender. His on/off is +0.7. He’s not even close to being close to being an MVP candidate. Honestly, Aron Baynes has probably been the MVP of the Suns this far.


Have you watched Booker this year? Calling Booker a poor defender leads me to believe that you have not.

He led the suns to victory against the supposed best team in each conference with an amazing performance. And has been the best player on one of the most impressive teams these first 7 games. I already posted the team/individual stats..

Please don’t try to use all in one regression stats this early in the season. Baynes has been great but he’s far from Books level. Please read up on collinearity if you want to know why stats like BPM are silly, especially after 7 games. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&source=hp&ei=NlXCXcXpH5TD0PEP_LOOwAQ&q=collinearity&oq=colinearity&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i10l8.2213.6639..7630...0.0..0.127.1067.6j5......0....1.......0..0j46i131j0i131j46j46i275j0i131i155.ugrmIqjlsio


Please read up on what BPM is if you want to critize others for using it.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

Box Plus/Minus (BPM) is a box score-based metric

it is NOT a version of Adjusted Plus/Minus, which is a play-by-play regression metric.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#90 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Wed Nov 6, 2019 12:17 pm

Too early. We need 10 games in for first takes. Embiid takes it methinks this year due to record. Giannis will lose out due to team record and last years playoffs being in everyone's mind {will change if Bucks top the league though}. LeBron will not get it due to AD being on the Lakers and he will inevitably take some games lightly due to the length of the season. Butler has an outside shot if HEAT top the EC.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#91 » by Colbinii » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:03 pm

RB34 wrote:
Barnzy wrote:LeBron James clear cut mvp right now.


Why is that?

Giannis is averaging 27/14/7 and is only 1 game back overall.

Luka is averaging 26/10/9 and doesn’t have someone that put up 40/20.


Giannis has a great argument.

Luka does not as his defense is significantly worse.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#92 » by LukaV » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:38 pm

Unless one of LBJ and AD, Westbrook and Harden or Kawhi and PG13 is derailed by injuries, neither of those pairs should be in the running for MVP. Having such a tremendous teammate simply makes the game so much easier for you compared to other top players who don't have a such a great (MVP/All NBA top level) teammate. That's why I thought KD&Curry canceled each other out when both on Warriors and that's why LBJ and DWade canceled each other out in 2011.

So for me the top candidates will most likely be Giannis, Embiid and Jokić, since their three teams will most likely have lots more wins in the regular season than Minny, Dallas or Portland. Given their defensive prowess, Giannis and Embiid will be my two favourites if both remain healthy enough.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#93 » by Crives » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:39 pm

Knosh wrote:
Crives wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Booker has a PER of 21.4, a BPM of 3.2, and is a poor defender. His on/off is +0.7. He’s not even close to being close to being an MVP candidate. Honestly, Aron Baynes has probably been the MVP of the Suns this far.


Have you watched Booker this year? Calling Booker a poor defender leads me to believe that you have not.

He led the suns to victory against the supposed best team in each conference with an amazing performance. And has been the best player on one of the most impressive teams these first 7 games. I already posted the team/individual stats..

Please don’t try to use all in one regression stats this early in the season. Baynes has been great but he’s far from Books level. Please read up on collinearity if you want to know why stats like BPM are silly, especially after 7 games. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&source=hp&ei=NlXCXcXpH5TD0PEP_LOOwAQ&q=collinearity&oq=colinearity&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i10l8.2213.6639..7630...0.0..0.127.1067.6j5......0....1.......0..0j46i131j0i131j46j46i275j0i131i155.ugrmIqjlsio


Please read up on what BPM is if you want to critize others for using it.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

Box Plus/Minus (BPM) is a box score-based metric

it is NOT a version of Adjusted Plus/Minus, which is a play-by-play regression metric.


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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#94 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Nov 6, 2019 3:45 pm

Only thing we know at this point is it won't be Leonard. No way he gets enough votes if he has 15 healthy scratches during the year. He is already at 2 8 game into the season.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#95 » by mademan » Wed Nov 6, 2019 4:46 pm

I got Lebron as the front runner right now, though its still early
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#96 » by Colbinii » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:28 pm

LukaV wrote:Unless one of LBJ and AD, Westbrook and Harden or Kawhi and PG13 is derailed by injuries, neither of those pairs should be in the running for MVP. Having such a tremendous teammate simply makes the game so much easier for you compared to other top players who don't have a such a great (MVP/All NBA top level) teammate. That's why I thought KD&Curry canceled each other out when both on Warriors and that's why LBJ and DWade canceled each other out in 2011.

So for me the top candidates will most likely be Giannis, Embiid and Jokić, since their three teams will most likely have lots more wins in the regular season than Minny, Dallas or Portland. Given their defensive prowess, Giannis and Embiid will be my two favourites if both remain healthy enough.


So you agree that Curry should be void of his MVP in 2016 due to Draymond Green, Jordan in 1996 and Shaq in 2000?
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#97 » by 49erhokie » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:57 pm

Aron Baynes the real MVP.
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#98 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:05 pm

Lebron with early mvp start
Kobe for President of Operations
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#99 » by The High Cyde » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:10 pm

49erhokie wrote:Aron Baynes the real MVP.

Dude is playing out of his mind no doubt. Love how he shoots his threes :lol:
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Re: 2019-20 MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 1) 

Post#100 » by 49erhokie » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:19 pm

The High Cyde wrote:
49erhokie wrote:Aron Baynes the real MVP.

Dude is playing out of his mind no doubt. Love how he shoots his threes :lol:


I honestly don't know how he goes back to the bench if he's still playing at this rate and say suns are like 16-9 or better. Heard rumors they may play Ayton and Baynes together but iono how that would work really.

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