Why can't Knicks just be a good team?

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#21 » by RoxSteady » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:37 pm

tribulations wrote:I honestly feel like they were turning a corner before they gutted the team to trade for Melo. Maxing him out when he was a free agent wasn't particularly bright either. The trade though.. just so impatient and short sighted.

I'd like to see them do well again but hey, Knicks gonna Knick. They are the Clippers of Gen Z.

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Don't forget they won 54 games with 'Melo once... I thought it looked bad at the time, but now I'm not sure how much better off they would've been had they kept Wilson Chandler, Gallinari, and a first rounder (plus Mozgov and Felton, who they got back).
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#22 » by chitownsalesmen » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:37 pm

Problem is obviously from the top down, the last 3 builds or interations of the knicks all where plagued by terrible asset management and trades.

They drafted a very talented guy in Porzingis, they couldn't even hold onto him through his rookie contract. Porzingis and RJ Barrett could have been a nice 1-2 punch to build on, even with paying Porzingis they would have had cap and some decent young guys around them didn't even get that going.

Back in 2011, they gutted their team for Melo when they in all likely-hood would have gotten him that very next off-season, I do understand there would be a chance they don't get Melo, but in all honestly the deal they did do was so bad not getting him probably would have been a better option they still would have had all those young guys they dealt around Amare and cap, obviously Amare fell of, but rolling the dice would have been the smart play. Imagine if they had signed Melo then could have either just had more talent around him or maybe they could have still been in the running for another deal maybe they could have gotten CP3, Melo and Amare, Idk if that breaks through those Heat teams but they would have easily been the 2nd best team in that conference for a few years.

The rebuild before that with Isaiah Thomas running the ship, he burned through sooo many picks and assets wind up with a 30 win team consisting of Starbury, Steve Francis, Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Renaldo Balkman. The only solid moves Thomas ever made in his 5 or so years in NYK, was drafting David Lee and Nate Robinson. Multiple bad trades like the Bulls trade that result in sending 2 lotto picks that ended up being Aldridge and Noah for Eddy Curry, and then paying at that time, relatively big dollars too Curry.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#23 » by E-Balla » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:40 pm

James Dolan. It's literally just him. It all trickles down from there.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#24 » by Knicks7Tape » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:41 pm

The team is actually playing with some tenacity this season. I love Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett. Knox is so **** young and I think is coming along nicely. Overall I think the current front office is doing an ok so far and I hope they give Fizdale some time.

Hopefully Dolan sticks to his **** music and the basketball people can do their jobs.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#25 » by Buckeye-NBAFan » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:42 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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That's insane.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#26 » by Jcity08 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:44 pm

You look to the top when a ream is failing, Ownership, Management and Coaching help solidify a team culture/system that amplifys the effectiveness & contribution to winning for players within that system, so long as they buy in.

When your team is made up of talented individuals lacking a good system, a less talented team with a good to great system wins every time.

Thats why the Spurs can compete most of the time with or without identifiable star power.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#27 » by Buckeye-NBAFan » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:44 pm

Phish Tank wrote:problems were sown were long before Dolan too:

1) Lack of interest in young players
2) Never surrounding Ewing with real sidekicks
3) Refusal to modernize late 90s to 2000s

the list goes on.


How is anything in the late 90s to 2000s "long before Dolan"?
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#28 » by Sixerscan » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:46 pm

robillionaire wrote:trust the process lol

the 76ers are a good team, they had to lose for a long ass time to get there. We got RJ who is looking nice and now we need to cash in on about 4 more years of first round picks hope to get lucky on a couple more and we'll see where we are

Issue is they aren’t as diligent with collecting assets as the Sixers were or teams like the Hawks Grizzlies or even the Suns are now. Or the Pelicans or Thunder that also traded stars. They skipped out on a lot of opportunities this summer to make some questionable signings. A team this bad should not have had only 2 picks in the 19 draft and 2 picks as of now in the 20 draft.

It seems like the Knicks have the ESPN level view of tanking that it’s just about being bad and getting good draft picks. They’re trying to walk a much skinnier tight rope than a lot of those other teams that have more fulsome plans.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#29 » by Knicks7Tape » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:46 pm

Ferulci wrote:

This song is so revolting.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#30 » by hundreth » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:47 pm

It's Dolan x Steve Mills. The common denominator for most of our awful seasons has been Steve Mills in charge of basketball operations. Who placed him there? Dolan. Any other owner would realize Mills is horrible at what he does and move on. We've had Mills in charge for 20 years now...

Dolan puts Mills in charge. Mills hires the GM and sets the direction in motion. It's never going to change until both Dolan and Mills are excised from this franchise.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#31 » by Laimbeer » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:47 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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That is unbelievable. :o
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#32 » by NPZ » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:48 pm

Weis was pretty good. Just sayin.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#33 » by E-Balla » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:50 pm

Also why is Raymond Felton the best PG we've had this decade?
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#34 » by Michael Jordan » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:55 pm

How about the NBA adopts a McDonald's system of franchise ownership?

You get to LEASE (but not own) a team for 10 years. Every decade your performance as an owner is reviewed and if its really poor then you're forced to sell. This would prevent disasters like the Kings/Knicks with no end in sight.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#35 » by djsunyc » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:56 pm

Phish Tank wrote:problems were sown were long before Dolan too:

1) Lack of interest in young players
2) Never surrounding Ewing with real sidekicks
3) Refusal to modernize late 90s to 2000s

the list goes on.


since 1980 - basically 40 years ago, the knicks had only 1 sustained period of success, ewing years w/ riley & jvg (from 92-2000). before and after that has been bad to horrifically bad.

dolan rehired one of the worst sports execs of all time in steve mills.

they will never do anything good as long as dolan is running the show.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#36 » by Sark » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:57 pm

Knicks7Tape wrote:
Ferulci wrote:

This song is so revolting.



Not as revolting as his song about Harvey Weinstein



https://deadline.com/2018/08/msg-networks-chairman-james-dolan-writes-song-about-harvey-weinstein-1202444129/
#KnicksTank4Lyfe
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#37 » by dakomish23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:57 pm

Starts and ends with the FO. People can blame Dolan if they want but we've actually had multiple winning seasons with him as the owner.

It stems back to summer 2017 and they've felt the aftershocks of those decisions ever since. They chose to "compete" instead of taking their time and doing things like a normal rebuild. The THJ contracts, playing the vets for useless wins in a top heavy 2018 draft, refusing to use cap space to gain assets, etc.

Whoever hog tied Mills allowing the Knicks to play the kids and live with the results last year should be lauded.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#38 » by Sark » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:01 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Starts and ends with the FO. People can blame Dolan if they want but we've actually had multiple winning seasons with him as the owner.

It stems back to summer 2017 and they've felt the aftershocks of those decisions ever since. They chose to "compete" instead of taking their time and doing things like a normal rebuild. The THJ contracts, playing the vets for useless wins in a top heavy 2018 draft, refusing to use cap space to gain assets, etc.

Whoever hog tied Mills allowing the Knicks to play the kids and live with the results last year should be lauded.



Steve Mills is James Dolan by proxy. That's why he's been here the whole time.
#KnicksTank4Lyfe
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#39 » by dakomish23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:01 pm

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Starts and ends with the FO. People can blame Dolan if they want but we've actually had multiple winning seasons with him as the owner.

It stems back to summer 2017 and they've felt the aftershocks of those decisions ever since. They chose to "compete" instead of taking their time and doing things like a normal rebuild. The THJ contracts, playing the vets for useless wins in a top heavy 2018 draft, refusing to use cap space to gain assets, etc.

Whoever hog tied Mills allowing the Knicks to play the kids and live with the results last year should be lauded.



Steve Mills is James Dolan by proxy. That's why he's been here the whole time.


Didn't he get kicked out of the FO when they brought on Walsh?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#40 » by Sark » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:03 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Starts and ends with the FO. People can blame Dolan if they want but we've actually had multiple winning seasons with him as the owner.

It stems back to summer 2017 and they've felt the aftershocks of those decisions ever since. They chose to "compete" instead of taking their time and doing things like a normal rebuild. The THJ contracts, playing the vets for useless wins in a top heavy 2018 draft, refusing to use cap space to gain assets, etc.

Whoever hog tied Mills allowing the Knicks to play the kids and live with the results last year should be lauded.



Steve Mills is James Dolan by proxy. That's why he's been here the whole time.


Didn't he get kicked out of the FO when they brought on Walsh?


That was the only time he was gone, and the only time the Knicks were decent. Basically Dolan's least level of involvement.
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