Why can't Knicks just be a good team?

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#41 » by DaGawd » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:12 pm

Knicks7Tape wrote:The team is actually playing with some tenacity this season. I love Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett. Knox is so **** young and I think is coming along nicely. Overall I think the current front office is doing an ok so far and I hope they give Fizdale some time.

Hopefully Dolan sticks to his **** music and the basketball people can do their jobs.

Uhhhh what tenacity... We've been getting punked at home for the most part, and it took a massive run sparked by Bobby Portis not being able to miss to reverse one of those into a win. This team is trash... It all def starts with Dolan. He has to go and I wish Adam Silver would try harder to make him sell, step down or what ever
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#42 » by Darth Celtic » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:26 pm

Romeiro Celtic wrote:Mainly James Dolan + bad front office, bad management, constantly giving away assets, bad management of players, drama, Melo situation etc.

I mean, how can we not get this? Game of zones predicted the Unicorn trade and made fun of Dolan so bad. It's funny because it wasn't even a joke, it was all true. Real free agents won't sign there, and haven't in decades. Just guys who want to get paid who aren't really worth what they would be making on the Knicks.

If he sells the team, they can start over. Until then, they won't be a serious team.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#43 » by Karate Diop » Mon Nov 4, 2019 6:42 pm

Percentsign wrote:How can they be so bad for so long?


Joke ownership. Consistently bad management. Horrendous organizational culture. Zero accountability among players.

The above have been Knicks Staples for about 2 decades now... Them being bad really isn't a surprise. People thinking they have a shot at being good anytime soon is.

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#44 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:00 pm

robillionaire wrote:trust the process lol

the 76ers are a good team, they had to lose for a long ass time to get there. We got RJ who is looking nice and now we need to cash in on about 4 more years of first round picks hope to get lucky on a couple more and we'll see where we are


They missed the playoffs for 4 straight years...not all that long.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#45 » by jbeachboy » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:04 pm

lack of player development, poor front office hire plus james dolan as owner, it all trickles down. they have been looking for a quality point guard for years.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#46 » by jbeachboy » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:09 pm

superstar players dont want to stay or come to the knicks nowadays.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#47 » by Illuminatos » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:20 pm

They had a decent team the first few years of the decade.

I never saw Ewing play so those were "good old days" for me.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#48 » by The_Hater » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:26 pm

Percentsign wrote:How can they be so bad for so long?


It really does start at the top with James Dolan. If he’s not the worst owner in the league, he’s on the short list.

He’s a terrible owner who continually hires poor management teams and then meddles in the decisions they make. And top players don’t sign there as free agents because the team is rarely good and the culture seems toxic most of the time. Players around the league talk so this is no secret.

The lack of direction for the team has also been a viscous cycle for the past 20 years. Every time they seem to want to take a step back and rebuild slowly and properly, it seems that impatience creeps in and they change direction not long afterwards. Again, this seems to come straight from Dolan.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#49 » by Danny1616 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:42 pm

Awful management under Isiah Thomas for the mid-late 2000s.

Traded way too much for Melo.

Amare got hurt.

Resigned Melo for way too much when he was past his prime.

Melo is an awful leader who did not make his teammates better and even stifled the development of other teammates.

The end.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#50 » by KnicksFTW » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:43 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:We never built through the draft (until now) and Knicks management always been a step behind in terms of adjusting to the evolution of the game (still valid today). This franchise loves old narratives and doesn’t value analytics nearly enough to build a culture and a system that are conducive to winning.

Draft one franchise player though, and the wins will come one day or another.

Donnie Walsh, Phil Jackson and Scott Perry are basketball conservatives. Perry’s more rational than Phil, but he’s not a forward-thinking visionary either. His free agent signings would tend to prove that.


This 100.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#51 » by dc » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:54 pm

Danny1616 wrote:Traded way too much for Melo.

Amare got hurt.

Resigned Melo for way too much when he was past his prime.


Yeah, they traded for Melo when they could've just waited for free agnecy and got him without giving up all those assets. He obviously wanted to go to NY the same way Kahwi wanted to go to LA.

When Amare underwent microfracture surgery in 2005, the Suns medical staff predicted that he had about 5 more good years left in his knee. It was a deadly accurate prediction, and that's why they didn't bother to re-sign him when he became a FA in 2010. He went on to have 1 good year for the Knicks, and that was it.

Their biggest mistake wasn't re-signing Melo for big money, it was giving him a no trade clause on top of it. That pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't get squat for him in any trade. I still don't get that one.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#52 » by dakomish23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 7:56 pm

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:

Steve Mills is James Dolan by proxy. That's why he's been here the whole time.


Didn't he get kicked out of the FO when they brought on Walsh?


That was the only time he was gone, and the only time the Knicks were decent. Basically Dolan's least level of involvement.


Maybe he didn't want to break up the duet

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#53 » by TheDoors24 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:01 pm

bad management plus living in NY is overrated IMO.

In the sense that at the end of the day most players would rather be in warm climates so the allure of NY isn't worth it.

So a badly managed team with a vicious fanbase/media along with bad weather and probably high taxes.

so you get around this by building smartly through the draft but that goes back to the bad management part with a little bit of bad luck from the basketball gods.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#54 » by Bill Bradley » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:02 pm

hundreth wrote:It's Dolan x Steve Mills. The common denominator for most of our awful seasons has been Steve Mills in charge of basketball operations. Who placed him there? Dolan. Any other owner would realize Mills is horrible at what he does and move on. We've had Mills in charge for 20 years now...

Dolan puts Mills in charge. Mills hires the GM and sets the direction in motion. It's never going to change until both Dolan and Mills are excised from this franchise.


Ding ding ding we have a winner. It’s as simple as this.

And also the fact that fans don’t hold the team accountable. I ditched the Knicks, personally. Maybe I can root for them again when these two are gone.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#55 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:08 pm

As cliche as it sounds, it all trickles down from the top. The knicks have had one 50 win season and got past the first round of the playoffs once in almost two decades. Unfortunately, for knicks fans, it does not look like things will change anytime soon. Knicks fans sound optimistic but how many times have they said that in recent years with Melo, KP, and now barrett?

I feel like people dislike working for the knicks, and players just go there for a payday but otherwise would avoid that organization, especially Dolan.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#56 » by dc » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:30 pm

hundreth wrote:It's Dolan x Steve Mills. The common denominator for most of our awful seasons has been Steve Mills in charge of basketball operations. Who placed him there? Dolan. Any other owner would realize Mills is horrible at what he does and move on. We've had Mills in charge for 20 years now...

Dolan puts Mills in charge. Mills hires the GM and sets the direction in motion. It's never going to change until both Dolan and Mills are excised from this franchise.


Yep, when you're that bad for that long, you can basically point to the people up top.

Also, incompetent owners tend to hire and keep around incompetent management. The situation is two fold. 1) Smart and capable people don't like working for people like Dolan and 2) people like Dolan often feel threatened/insecure by having much smarter people than them around them. Essentially, Dolan and smart people tend to avoid each other.

That's why Dolan has kept Mills around for 20 years. People like that are essentially attracted to each other.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#57 » by Lalouie » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:35 pm

we don't have to rehash nyk's horrific FO. it rivals the sterling clippers.

everything you want to know about the knicks is encapsulated in the kyrie/kd fiasco.
the problem is that nyk has had no significant stretch other than the holzman knicks. the ewing knicks were a facade. it wasn't a glamourous team. it was a klutsy team built on brawn, and when pitino/riley left, their stretch was done. riley made that team from virtually nothing. that's RILEY not ewing. jvg tried to keep it going - he couldn't. the glamour is in manhattan, in msg, in broadway, it's NOT in the knick org

so what are we talkin', maybe 8 years in 50, compounded by the fact that it's NEW YORK CITY. one would think there's an advantage there.

today, there's a starbucks in every city. every city has a bit of big city vibe. nyk is a big market team that thinks it deserves big market recognition, but it never really earned it. THE LAKERS have "glamour and draw" and recognition, if you want to draw a comparison. players, if you haven't noticed, are no longer drawn to glitz and glamour. they prefer to WIN.

it is also not attractive to coaches and gm's, which might be even worse
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#58 » by dantas » Mon Nov 4, 2019 10:34 pm

Yes, we all know knicks is a joke organization. But I really expected more from Melo and Amare times. Sometimes they also have bad luck.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#59 » by LibertyKnicks00 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 11:22 pm

Canadian6ersFan wrote:NYC too distracting.
Wrong, the Rangers have been one of the most successful NHL organizations playing in about 150 playoff games in a ten year span. Who is their owner? James Dolan.

Since ‘14, our HC’s have been Derek Fisher, Jeff Hornacek, now David Fizdale. Well Phil Jackson didn’t help. Added another debacle in the last 20 years storyline of dysfunction with the Porzingis situation. Our last ‘decent’ HC was Woodson, and well, he wasn’t any good. I mean, we haven’t had a stable HC at all in the last 20 years. And in those 20 years asides from coaching without getting into the mistakes with trading FRP’s, and the contracts we’ve sent out.

It seems we’ve learned from that. I don’t know, maybe, just maybe we can one day hire a HC that can develop young players, and have an actual offensive/defensive scheme. Now that’s our biggest problem.

What’s odd is, yeah, Dolan is one of the worst owners in history. With basketball. He’s one of the best in the NHL. Young top NCAA FA’s flock over to sign with the Rangers. And NCAA FA can be elite in the NHL. It’s a completely different.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#60 » by BallSacBounce » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:08 am

Percentsign wrote:How can they be so bad for so long?

James Dolan + Steve Mills = Close Thread

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