Why can't Knicks just be a good team?

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#61 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:11 am

*puts on tinfoil hat*

They cheated the league with the rigged Ewing lottery and karma has come back to haunt them.

*takes off tinfoil hat*
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#62 » by DaPessimist » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:12 am

ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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Still can't believe that guy went undrafted (NFL) after winning the Heisman.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#63 » by Slim Charlez » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:33 am

Favorite Knick era

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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#64 » by robillionaire » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:37 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:trust the process lol

the 76ers are a good team, they had to lose for a long ass time to get there. We got RJ who is looking nice and now we need to cash in on about 4 more years of first round picks hope to get lucky on a couple more and we'll see where we are


They missed the playoffs for 4 straight years...not all that long.


I checked and it was 5 years. But anyway all it took was them hitting on 2 good picks Embiid and Simmons. They missed on a few high lotto picks too in carter williams, Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor, and Fultz(traded another first rounder to move up and pick him when Tatum was available at 4). Then they signed on some complimentary pieces. So I mean we still have some work to do and margin for error but really it's as simple as tanking your ass off until you get lucky and get 2 all stars out of the draft and build around that. Losing KP hurt since we thought he could be the first piece we needed but unfortunately with our bad luck he tore an ACL and then wanted out, we did get 2 first rounders out of that so we have to just hope for the best.

But the reasons this has taken so long is that 1. the knicks never kept our draft picks before this making stupid trades to get rid of the picks, and 2. they never would fully commit to the tank in the years they actually had a pick, won meaningless games because of "culture" and missed on every mid lotto pick. and 3. absolutely zero luck in the draft lottery. I mean we didn't even have our #7 pick in 2016 which ended up being Jamal Murray which would have immensely helped this team out since we still don't have a PG.

As far as I'm concerned we are still in year 2. Last year was year 1 and we hope RJ can be the first step in the right direction. Need another top 5 this year.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#65 » by Nazrmohamed » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:45 am

Why couldn't we just ignore KPs brother like teams have learned to ignore Lavaar Ball? SMH.

I just have the feeling that if KP were forced to stay he wouldve met this Barrett kid and hit it off. Mills and Perry panicked. If that's even what happened
In the first place. Did KP ever confirm his trade request? Last words #stay woke
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#66 » by Nazrmohamed » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:48 am

DaPessimist wrote:
ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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Still can't believe that guy went undrafted (NFL) after winning the Heisman.


To be fair though all anybody does is convince us that everybody we draft sucks and that we overrate everybody.....till they arent here and then the narrative changes to how impatient we are. I've yet to hear the collective NBA fanbase come to the conclusion that we have awesome prospects.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#67 » by robillionaire » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:49 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:Why couldn't we just ignore KPs brother like teams have learned to ignore Lavaar Ball? SMH.

I just have the feeling that if KP were forced to stay he wouldve met this Barrett kid and hit it off. Mills and Perry panicked. If that's even what happened
In the first place. Did KP ever confirm his trade request? Last words #stay woke


The Lakers traded Lonzo :lol:

KP is on a max contract for 5 years and to be honest I'm still pretty shaky about that contract if I'm Dallas as he's never been healthy for an entire season and from what I've seen still hasn't played quite to the level he was pre-injury. Add to that him allegedly straight up saying hey I don't want to be here. Our timeline is still in the distance. Hope those 2021 and 2023 first rounders pan out.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#68 » by robillionaire » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:53 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:
DaPessimist wrote:
ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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Still can't believe that guy went undrafted (NFL) after winning the Heisman.


To be fair though all anybody does is convince us that everybody we draft sucks and that we overrate everybody.....till they arent here and then the narrative changes to how impatient we are. I've yet to hear the collective NBA fanbase come to the conclusion that we have awesome prospects.


the narrative follows the logic that the knicks are bad, so everything the knicks do must be bad, because the knicks are bad. it's a tautology but that's going to be the logic across the league about anything we do until we ever get good and prove it wrong
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#69 » by Pointgod » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:55 am

The Knicks never built an organizational culture. They’ve continually taken short cuts to building a team and every time it’s blown up in their face. Literally their only pitch in free agency is some made up media narrative that everyone wants to play in the Garden which is bull. Dolan needs to go, Mills needs to go and they need to commit to an actual rebuild instead of just being plain bad.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#70 » by LKN » Tue Nov 5, 2019 1:31 am

The early to mid 90s Knicks were really good. They came the closest (IMO) to having a real shot to knock off those great Bulls teams.

Ewing unfortunately never had enough offensive help and was asked to do a bit too much on offense.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#71 » by LOUiS-D » Tue Nov 5, 2019 1:53 am

Ferulci wrote:

Can I just draw attention to the lyrics

James Dolan wrote:Feel the joy, like you would a little boy


C'mon man. You can't slide an 'as' in there somewhere? You got no one editing you?

This is a dude who surrounds himself with 'yes' men.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#72 » by Capn'O » Tue Nov 5, 2019 2:42 am

ankle420breaker wrote:The Knicks haven't re-signed a first round pick beyond their rookie contract since Charlie Ward in the mid 90's.

Mismanagement at the highest level.

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I agree, that's the biggest reason. Draft capital and rookie contracts have been seen as a means to the end of acquiring "superstars" and they never build up a base. IMO, that impatience must come from Dolan since every GM since 2000 has followed that model, and there have been quite a few.

Worst thing is their drafting hasn't been bad, considering the picks they've had.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#73 » by BoogieTime » Tue Nov 5, 2019 3:10 am

I was surprised that there was a notion they were supposed to be good before they played the Kings last night. Reading New York comments, it’s as if they thought the Knicks were competitive now that was a “sure win”.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#74 » by andyo » Tue Nov 5, 2019 3:17 am

They have very incompetent management and they can never build a sustained core (not even a core of solid role-players) and retain them. Other teams like Miami have already done it seamlessly with less pressure, and on the fly. In today's NBA, you need to draft or at least sign some undrafted guys that can be developed/elevated to some semblance of a core.

The Knicks actually probably had it in easy in hindsight, they've not only had higher picks but they simply needed to draft and develop a solid framework of good role-players to attract the stars entering UFA to sign with them. Not necessarily draft or develop a star even. Being NYC, they already have a incredible market advantage for 1A/B caliber players, and they had a perfect storm of guys available just this last off-season.

Instead they completely botched it and have to reset once again
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#75 » by Richard4444 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 7:00 am

Knicks have a power that is also a curse. Its the power to attract Free Agents stars due to New York big market.

They keep betting in use cap space to sign stars instead of building a team slowly by drafting, developing players and collecting assets.

The problem is that power is not so great when we have a weak roster. They only can attract second and third tier stars. Usually players with almost thirty years old and bad health: Marbury, Ed Curry, Stat and Melo.

After signing a semi star and fail to archive great goals. They usually double, triple the bet and overpay role players to help theirs imperfect stars. Trade picks to get Bargnani, overbid themselves to get Tim Hardway Jr, overpay to get Calderon. All awful deals. Nobody wants to play for old treadmills teams that tends to get weaker and weaker. They neeed to overpay to get reinforcements.

At least after Melo trade, they are starting to develop young players and are not burning steps.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#76 » by RHODEY » Tue Nov 5, 2019 7:38 am

Lalouie wrote:we don't have to rehash nyk's horrific FO. it rivals the sterling clippers.

everything you want to know about the knicks is encapsulated in the kyrie/kd fiasco.
the problem is that nyk has had no significant stretch other than the holzman knicks. the ewing knicks were a facade. it wasn't a glamourous team. it was a klutsy team built on brawn, and when pitino/riley left, their stretch was done. riley made that team from virtually nothing. that's RILEY not ewing. jvg tried to keep it going - he couldn't. the glamour is in manhattan, in msg, in broadway, it's NOT in the knick org

so what are we talkin', maybe 8 years in 50, compounded by the fact that it's NEW YORK CITY. one would think there's an advantage there.

today, there's a starbucks in every city. every city has a bit of big city vibe. nyk is a big market team that thinks it deserves big market recognition, but it never really earned it. THE LAKERS have "glamour and draw" and recognition, if you want to draw a comparison. players, if you haven't noticed, are no longer drawn to glitz and glamour. they prefer to WIN.

it is also not attractive to coaches and gm's, which might be even worse


Superficial glamour doesnt trump ny grit. Rival cities hate ny because they cant be ny. The Knicks are still relevant even though we suck, we have the attention. When we do rise again no one will have a reason to mention your plain vanilla pueblo. Go ny go ny go!
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#77 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Tue Nov 5, 2019 7:48 am

BTW Dolan actually squelched a Kyle Lowry to the knicks trade when Masai was intentionally tanking and giving away BCs assets for very little (though he ended up backing into some success soon after this botched trade). So Dolan basicly had one of the better talents in the league in the bag (thought not at the time) and killed the deal.
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#78 » by Lalouie » Tue Nov 5, 2019 7:52 am

RHODEY wrote:
Lalouie wrote:we don't have to rehash nyk's horrific FO. it rivals the sterling clippers.

everything you want to know about the knicks is encapsulated in the kyrie/kd fiasco.
the problem is that nyk has had no significant stretch other than the holzman knicks. the ewing knicks were a facade. it wasn't a glamourous team. it was a klutsy team built on brawn, and when pitino/riley left, their stretch was done. riley made that team from virtually nothing. that's RILEY not ewing. jvg tried to keep it going - he couldn't. the glamour is in manhattan, in msg, in broadway, it's NOT in the knick org

so what are we talkin', maybe 8 years in 50, compounded by the fact that it's NEW YORK CITY. one would think there's an advantage there.

today, there's a starbucks in every city. every city has a bit of big city vibe. nyk is a big market team that thinks it deserves big market recognition, but it never really earned it. THE LAKERS have "glamour and draw" and recognition, if you want to draw a comparison. players, if you haven't noticed, are no longer drawn to glitz and glamour. they prefer to WIN.

it is also not attractive to coaches and gm's, which might be even worse


Superficial glamour doesnt trump ny grit. Rival cities hate ny because they cant be ny. The Knicks are still relevant even though we suck, we have the attention. When we do rise again no one will have a reason to mention your plain vanilla pueblo. Go ny go ny go!


bro,,,i'm a manhattanite born in lenox hill.
i don't know how you define "relevance" but it's not what's been since holzman or riley. THE CITY is relevant. the culture is relevant, the people are relevant. kyrie and kd will tell you nyk is not relevant - that was such a blow to the nyk EGO. the nba players don't think nyk is relevant. i'll wait for when stars start opting for nyk. right now, nyk can't BUY a star.

i'm sorry brudda but I KNOW,,,i've been living with the post wooden era @UCLA for 35yrs
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#79 » by Garbagelo » Tue Nov 5, 2019 8:55 am

Different narrative every year

Corporate culture encourages back stabbing and power grabbing

Zero focus on basketball

They can literally suit up a g-league team and have great attendance (they're the second lowest payrolled team in the NBA if you can believe that)
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Re: Why can't Knicks just be a good team? 

Post#80 » by Wolfgang630 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:17 am

It’s the same garbage **** year after year. Nothing will change. All these dudes rooting and hoping will still be doing the same **** 5 years from now. Dolan is pos who needed to go forever ago

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