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So your not going to say that Gobert was a +9?

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

PharmD wrote:I'd say Gobert is outplaying him tonight

I wouldn't say that...

Embiid: 27pts (on 56.44 TS%), 16 rbs and 3 asts
Gobert: 14 pts (on 60.76 TS%), 16 rbs and 3 asts

Even in a loss Embiid was +7 on the court. More of the same from the big man.

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NO-KG-AI wrote:

bulliedog8 wrote:Modern day Shaq but with a better shot. Both on and off the court.

Yea, the version of Shaq that shoots 48% instead of 60%.

And yet their scoring efficiency is pretty much the same

Hikari wrote:So your not going to say that Gobert was a +9?

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

PharmD wrote:I'd say Gobert is outplaying him tonight

I wouldn't say that...

Embiid: 27pts (on 56.44 TS%), 16 rbs and 3 asts
Gobert: 14 pts (on 60.76 TS%), 16 rbs and 3 asts

Even in a loss Embiid was +7 on the court. More of the same from the big man.

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+9 on the winning team when the entire Jazz lineup was positive

Edit) with the exception of Mitchell

Thought Gobert was the best player on the court tonight. Embiid played well, but 27 on 25 shooting possessions is not the most amazing thing ever. He made some defensive plays, but the Jazz also got a lot of buckets against him in drop. Gobert was making more plays and was a more consistent force on defense before it came off the rails with the late fouling.

Gobert was everywhere and the clear MVP for the Jazz. If you’re looking for the best Sixer tonight, I’d actually give that to Josh Richardson who was very efficient and made lots of plays on defense.

KqWIN wrote:Thought Gobert was the best player on the court tonight. Embiid played well, but 27 on 25 shooting possessions is not the most amazing thing ever. He made some defensive plays, but the Jazz also got a lot of buckets against him in drop. Gobert was making more plays and was a more consistent force on defense before it came off the rails with the late fouling.

Gobert was everywhere and the clear MVP for the Jazz. If you’re looking for the best Sixer tonight, I’d actually give that to Josh Richardson who was very efficient and made lots of plays on defense.

Using the same approach, Gobert had 14 on 12 shooting possessions (which were limited to bunnies outside of his FTs). I think fans in general are less inclined to value FT shooting which Embiid was able to capitalize on.

Richardson was great but I'd still give the edge to Embiid. Need Horford/Tobias to play better (and Ben to get healthy).

Solid win by the Jazz though. Big fan of that team.

I hate his personality on the court but love the player. He's by far the best Center in the game. Not to start a Jokic vs. Embiid thing, but he just does so much more than score and pass. Unlike Jokic, he's elite on the defensive side of the floor. A monster on both sides.

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

KqWIN wrote:Thought Gobert was the best player on the court tonight. Embiid played well, but 27 on 25 shooting possessions is not the most amazing thing ever. He made some defensive plays, but the Jazz also got a lot of buckets against him in drop. Gobert was making more plays and was a more consistent force on defense before it came off the rails with the late fouling.

Gobert was everywhere and the clear MVP for the Jazz. If you’re looking for the best Sixer tonight, I’d actually give that to Josh Richardson who was very efficient and made lots of plays on defense.

Using the same approach, Gobert was 14 on 12 shooting possessions (which were limited to bunnies outside of his FTs). I think fans in general are less inclined to value FT shooting which Embiid was able to capitalize on.

Richardson was great but I'd still give the edge to Embiid. Need Horford/Tobias to play better (and Ben to get healthy).

Solid win by the Jazz though. Big fan of that team.

You should use the same approach because that’s the correct way. Neither had and1’s or technical FT’s.

Gobert wasn’t the best player tonight because of his scoring. He also didn’t get to go up against probably one of the worst defenders in the league in Tony Bradley. I say probably because he’s only played 26 real NBA minutes after tonight (-21 in those minutes).

The Real Dalic wrote:I hate his personality on the court but love the player. He's by far the best Center in the game. Not to start a Jokic vs. Embiid thing, but he just does so much more than score and pass. Unlike Jokic, he's elite on the defensive side of the floor. A monster on both sides.

I get why you'd hate his on court personality. Trust me, I do. But I think what a lot of people don't realize is that he does what he does for show. When it comes to the real stuff like taking responsibility for losses, supporting his teammates/coaches at all times, and giving back to the community he gets an A+. I know that sounds like a homer response (and it is) but I think a lot of people misinterpret his antics a bit.

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

The Real Dalic wrote:I hate his personality on the court but love the player. He's by far the best Center in the game. Not to start a Jokic vs. Embiid thing, but he just does so much more than score and pass. Unlike Jokic, he's elite on the defensive side of the floor. A monster on both sides.

I get why you'd hate his on court personality. Trust me, I do. But I think what a lot of people don't realize is that he does what he does for show. When it comes to the real stuff like taking responsibility for losses, supporting his teammates/coaches at all times, and giving back to the community he gets an A+. I know that sounds like a homer response (and it is) but I think a lot of people misinterprets his antics a bit.

Note that I said "on the court." I don't think he's a DBag or anything. He goes too far sometimes, like the KAT fight on the court then taking it to twitter, but I don't think he's an ahole or anything. More like an immature kid.

KqWIN wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

KqWIN wrote:Thought Gobert was the best player on the court tonight. Embiid played well, but 27 on 25 shooting possessions is not the most amazing thing ever. He made some defensive plays, but the Jazz also got a lot of buckets against him in drop. Gobert was making more plays and was a more consistent force on defense before it came off the rails with the late fouling.

Gobert was everywhere and the clear MVP for the Jazz. If you’re looking for the best Sixer tonight, I’d actually give that to Josh Richardson who was very efficient and made lots of plays on defense.

Using the same approach, Gobert was 14 on 12 shooting possessions (which were limited to bunnies outside of his FTs). I think fans in general are less inclined to value FT shooting which Embiid was able to capitalize on.

Richardson was great but I'd still give the edge to Embiid. Need Horford/Tobias to play better (and Ben to get healthy).

Solid win by the Jazz though. Big fan of that team.

You should use the same approach because that’s the correct way. Neither had and1’s or technical FT’s.

Gobert wasn’t the best player tonight because of his scoring. He also didn’t get to go up against probably one of the worst defenders in the league in Tony Bradley. I say probably because he’s only played 26 real NBA minutes after tonight (-21 in those minutes).

Well yeah I wasn't arguing your approach, although it was essentially reflected in the TS percentages. I don't think Gobert distinguished himself enough defensively to have an advantage over JoJo but we can agree to disagree.

What's his impact when he has to stand at the top of the key and Simmons gravitates to the dunker's spot lol.

Such a horrible fit, limiting a generational big man.

MikeM wrote:What's his impact when he has to stand at the top of the key and Simmons gravitates to the dunker's spot lol.

Such a horrible fit, limiting a generational big man.

Embiid is really tough in the post up game...but he would be an absolute monster if he got the ball in more positions when the defense wasn’t set and loaded up on him.

I think he has another level to his game that will be unlocked if he ever gets a strong PnR partner that can draw attention with his scoring.

KqWIN wrote:

MikeM wrote:What's his impact when he has to stand at the top of the key and Simmons gravitates to the dunker's spot lol.

Such a horrible fit, limiting a generational big man.

Embiid is really tough in the post up game...but he would be an absolute monster if he got the ball in more positions when the defense wasn’t set and loaded up on him.

I think he has another level to his game that will be unlocked if he ever gets a strong PnR partner that can draw attention with his scoring.

This is true, they don't mix it up and get him any easy buckets, it's all tough post ups against set defenses or threes. It's shocking how little they do PnR, even when Simmons went out they still wouldn't do it and their offense just grind to a halt.

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:It's a shame he's paired with Simmons to be honest, I don't think we'll ever get to see a prime Embiid with a team built to maximize his talent, and it's really because of Simmons at this point. You remove Ben from that lineup and place any number of all-star PGs in his place and the roster is immediately balanced. It's his 4th playing year in the NBA and one faucet of his game is still left under wraps because you can't run a pick and roll with Simmons as the primary ball handler, just imagine Lillard curling around Embiid's picks.

It also mean he gets to play defense with a guy like Simmons who makes him a more impactful defender as he doesn't have to constantly worry about blown coverage. And lets be honest 70% of basketball is defense for big men!

Embiid was an excellent defender his rookie season without Simmons, and almost all of the best defensive teams are anchored by great defensive bigs, he doesn't need Simmons on that side of the ball.

The Sixers are going to be playing 4 vs 5 offensively until Simmons expands his game, and in no way does his defense makeup for his offensive shortcomings, not when he's going to be a max player.

Wow, my point went WAY over your head. Of course Embiid is a good defender either way. Simmons makes Embiid a BETTER defender, just like an elite shooter can make a big man a better offensive player. And Simmons is not remotely as poor offensively as you're comically implying.

He won’t be the MVP. He won’t be really in the conversation, although he should benefit from Philly being the best in the east if they actually live up to expectations for once.

And as for the shaq comparisons, nobody could shut Shaq down. Same can’t be said for Embiid.

NoDopeOnSundays wrote: one faucet of his game

You're all wet.

The crazy thing is that if you repeat the exercise with Simmons, the opposite picture emerges— the Sixers have been better with him sitting since the end of his Rookie year

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

Myth wrote:I'd love to see him MVP.

You and me both brother. If he can stay on the court for 70+ games then he'll be in the conversation. The suspension didn't help

I think he's a worthy Paul George to giannis's Lebron.

dhsilv2 wrote:

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:
It also mean he gets to play defense with a guy like Simmons who makes him a more impactful defender as he doesn't have to constantly worry about blown coverage. And lets be honest 70% of basketball is defense for big men!

Embiid was an excellent defender his rookie season without Simmons, and almost all of the best defensive teams are anchored by great defensive bigs, he doesn't need Simmons on that side of the ball.

The Sixers are going to be playing 4 vs 5 offensively until Simmons expands his game, and in no way does his defense makeup for his offensive shortcomings, not when he's going to be a max player.

Wow, my point went WAY over your head. Of course Embiid is a good defender either way. Simmons makes Embiid a BETTER defender, just like an elite shooter can make a big man a better offensive player. And Simmons is not remotely as poor offensively as you're comically implying.

No, your point didn't go over my head, Embiid will be elite on defense with or without Simmons, how much better Simmons makes him on defense is minuscule compared to how much Simmons hampers him on offense. And Simmons offense is terrible against elite teams, you can't sugarcoat that, go to the Sixers board and they're already talking about trading him, as a PG getting shut down by Aron Baynes is a real eye opener.

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Embiid was an excellent defender his rookie season without Simmons, and almost all of the best defensive teams are anchored by great defensive bigs, he doesn't need Simmons on that side of the ball.

The Sixers are going to be playing 4 vs 5 offensively until Simmons expands his game, and in no way does his defense makeup for his offensive shortcomings, not when he's going to be a max player.

Wow, my point went WAY over your head. Of course Embiid is a good defender either way. Simmons makes Embiid a BETTER defender, just like an elite shooter can make a big man a better offensive player. And Simmons is not remotely as poor offensively as you're comically implying.

No, your point didn't go over my head, Embiid will be elite on defense with or without Simmons, how much better Simmons makes him on defense is minuscule compared to how much Simmons hampers him on offense. And Simmons offense is terrible against elite teams, you can't sugarcoat that, go to the Sixers board and they're already talking about trading him, as a PG getting shut down by Aron Baynes is a real eye opener.

It isn't miniscual and you're grossly missing how much more important Embiid's defense is to his impact that his offense.

And I'll avoid a team board...