Annual Embiid Impact Thread

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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#41 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Nov 7, 2019 9:03 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Wow, my point went WAY over your head. Of course Embiid is a good defender either way. Simmons makes Embiid a BETTER defender, just like an elite shooter can make a big man a better offensive player. And Simmons is not remotely as poor offensively as you're comically implying.


No, your point didn't go over my head, Embiid will be elite on defense with or without Simmons, how much better Simmons makes him on defense is minuscule compared to how much Simmons hampers him on offense. And Simmons offense is terrible against elite teams, you can't sugarcoat that, go to the Sixers board and they're already talking about trading him, as a PG getting shut down by Aron Baynes is a real eye opener.


It isn't miniscual and you're grossly missing how much more important Embiid's defense is to his impact that his offense.

And I'll avoid a team board...



As it stands, the Sixers need Embiid's offense just as much as his defense, they need him to have the spacing necessary to develop into a closer because their PG can't do it, Harris isn't up for it and neither is Richardson. You're not going to win playoff games with Simmons out there passing up wide open looks.

Why avoid the people who watch him the most? Until Simmons starts shooting he will be a liability in the halfcourt against good teams, their defense isn't good enough to make up for playing 4 on 5 on the other end with horrible spacing. Just wait until they play the Lakers, what the Suns did with Baynes on Simmons will be magnified when the Lakers go with LeBron on Horford, Howard on Embiid and Davis on Simmons, allowing Davis to just roam around on defense. That will be on national TV and it will be embarrassing.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#42 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Nov 7, 2019 10:54 pm

Such a shame Simmons is holding Embiid back.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#43 » by Hikari » Thu Nov 7, 2019 11:52 pm

Just for last night:

Philly players shot 4/15 when directly guarded by Gobert

In contrast

Utah players shot 9/12 when directly guarded by Embiid.


It is a single game but in a 2 pts margin a pretty big deal.



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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#44 » by PushDaRock » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:11 am

I keep thinking he should be far more dominant as an offensive player. He's still very efficient overall, but that's propped up by getting to the line a ton and making his FT's along with being an elite finisher at the rim. It's pretty incredible he puts up the numbers he does considering he takes like 70% of his FGA's from areas where he has terrible efficiency from. He shoots a lot of jumpers for someone that can't really shoot basically.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#45 » by mudsak » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:24 am

He's a beast. There's no other player like him in the NBA.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#46 » by mudsak » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:26 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:Such a shame Simmons is holding Embiid back.


As someone who doesn't watch a lot of Sixers games... can you elaborate? I would have assumed that Simmons is a great compliment to Embiid. Lack of shooting/spacing?
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#47 » by kuclas » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:46 am

Embiid is not Shaq. No one is like Shaq. That’s get that straight. Man I wished if Shaq could have shoot free throws.

Saying that. Embiid is a load to handle now on offense. Obviously he doesn’t have great stamina. But While gobert has always given embiid trouble. Embiid strength is improving. And he literally backed down gobert on a couple of possessions. And it’s like. Man. I’ve never seen gobert just get backed down like that. People try to out maneuver gobert cause he’s so long and tall. But no one ever truly backs him down.

Than again the stamina comes in and embiid settled for a lot of jumpers last night. Simply cause backing down a player. Waiting for the double team that may or may not come. It take a lot of energy. And embiid simply can’t do that for entire game. He was much better in first half than second half. He had his usual stat line. But it was a tell of 2 halves and he disappeared for many parts of the second half. Embiid. That’s just him. He needs to play regularly. Cause when he’s been out 1 or more weeks. The rust sets in.

But saying that. There is not many more impactful players in the nba than embiid. He just needs to stay healthy. It’s a big reason why he was passed over for 1st team all nba in both the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 season.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#48 » by Lalouie » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:47 am

"annually speaking", he's better this year than last year
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#49 » by GeorgeMarcus » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:35 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:The crazy thing is that if you repeat the exercise with Simmons, the opposite picture emerges— the Sixers have been better with him sitting since the end of his Rookie year


Simmons certainly doesn't impact the game like Embiid, but he's still a career +2.3 on/off despite being staggered against Embiid much of the time. I think if we're going to question the impact of any big name Sixer it should be Tobias.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#50 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Nov 8, 2019 4:20 am

mudsak wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:Such a shame Simmons is holding Embiid back.


As someone who doesn't watch a lot of Sixers games... can you elaborate? I would have assumed that Simmons is a great compliment to Embiid. Lack of shooting/spacing?



They are a very poor fit together, because of his lack of jumpshot the Sixers invert their offense a lot of the time with Horford and Embiid being the ones spotting up outside the 3 point line while Simmons tries to post up. Embiid & Simmons generally speaking don't really play off one another either, they exist on the court together but because of Brown's offense and Simmons limitations they don't run any PnR between Simmons and Embiid. Almost all of Embiid's offense is either a post up or a spot up, he gets very little from being the rollman, it's really a waste of potentially easy buckets.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#51 » by mudsak » Fri Nov 8, 2019 11:20 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
mudsak wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:Such a shame Simmons is holding Embiid back.


As someone who doesn't watch a lot of Sixers games... can you elaborate? I would have assumed that Simmons is a great compliment to Embiid. Lack of shooting/spacing?



They are a very poor fit together, because of his lack of jumpshot the Sixers invert their offense a lot of the time with Horford and Embiid being the ones spotting up outside the 3 point line while Simmons tries to post up. Embiid & Simmons generally speaking don't really play off one another either, they exist on the court together but because of Brown's offense and Simmons limitations they don't run any PnR between Simmons and Embiid. Almost all of Embiid's offense is either a post up or a spot up, he gets very little from being the rollman, it's really a waste of potentially easy buckets.


I've noticed in the little bit that I've watched them that there didn't really seem to be much of a "system" in terms of offense. Strange that they wouldn't utilize the p/r. I would have to imagine that combo could destroy other teams. Both of those guys can finish at the rim.

I've thought Simmons would be an issue for Philly. He's an amazing player, but being a PG and unable to shoot is REALLY tough on any team in the NBA today. Even more so for this Philly roster who's obviously going to garner the majority of points in the paint. Looking at Simmons' shot stats for the season you can see he's hardly shot anything beyond 8ft form the basket. Paint is clogged on this team.

It would be interesting to see what kind of impact CP3 would have on this Philly team. I know they'd never make that move, but win-now-mode?... it could potentially be the difference maker for them in the playoffs.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#52 » by syrus3 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:35 am

Embiid versus Jokic tonight. Joel leads the H2H 3-0 despite Jokic outscoring him 22 to 19 in those contests.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#53 » by syrus3 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:32 am

Jokic gets his first win against Embiid and outplays him once again, 26 to 19.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#54 » by MrGoat » Sat Nov 9, 2019 8:32 am

After seeing that game Embiid needs a thicker bottom to bang down low with Jokic, I recommend some eating sessions with Raymond Felton at all you can eat buffets to offset the Joker's size advantage.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#55 » by mcmurphy » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:30 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:The crazy thing is that if you repeat the exercise with Simmons, the opposite picture emerges— the Sixers have been better with him sitting since the end of his Rookie year


Simmons certainly doesn't impact the game like Embiid, but he's still a career +2.3 on/off despite being staggered against Embiid much of the time. I think if we're going to question the impact of any big name Sixer it should be Tobias.


George the reality is much different...

In the last 3 season

Simmons (ON) Embiid (ON) 2819mins NetRtg= +11.5
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (ON) 1388mins NetRtg= +5.5
Simmons (ON) Embiid (OFF) 2836mins NetRtg= -2.41
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (OF) 1258mins NetRtg= -1.2


Simmons it does not have this great impact unlike Joel... indeed without Joel the team has a slightly better NetRtg without Ben
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#56 » by GeorgeMarcus » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:47 am

mcmurphy wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:The crazy thing is that if you repeat the exercise with Simmons, the opposite picture emerges— the Sixers have been better with him sitting since the end of his Rookie year


Simmons certainly doesn't impact the game like Embiid, but he's still a career +2.3 on/off despite being staggered against Embiid much of the time. I think if we're going to question the impact of any big name Sixer it should be Tobias.


George the reality is much different...

In the last 3 season

Simmons (ON) Embiid (ON) 2819mins NetRtg= +11.5
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (ON) 1388mins NetRtg= +5.5
Simmons (ON) Embiid (OFF) 2836mins NetRtg= -2.41
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (OF) 1258mins NetRtg= -1.2


Simmons it does not have this great impact unlike Joel... indeed without Joel the team has a slightly better NetRtg without Ben


How is the reality different? The data shows that Embiid with Simmons is significantly better than Embiid without Simmons. The sample where they are both "off" is mostly a compilation of garbage minutes, where both teams play end of bench guys.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#57 » by GeorgeMarcus » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:54 am

syrus3 wrote:Jokic gets his first win against Embiid and outplays him once again, 26 to 19.


I'll give Jokic this one but it was the only time he outplayed Embiid of the 3 H2H games. We'll see how the big Serb holds up when they play in Philly :wink:
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#58 » by mcmurphy » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:59 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Simmons certainly doesn't impact the game like Embiid, but he's still a career +2.3 on/off despite being staggered against Embiid much of the time. I think if we're going to question the impact of any big name Sixer it should be Tobias.


George the reality is much different...

In the last 3 season

Simmons (ON) Embiid (ON) 2819mins NetRtg= +11.5
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (ON) 1388mins NetRtg= +5.5
Simmons (ON) Embiid (OFF) 2836mins NetRtg= -2.41
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (OF) 1258mins NetRtg= -1.2


Simmons it does not have this great impact unlike Joel... indeed without Joel the team has a slightly better NetRtg without Ben


How is the reality different? The data shows that Embiid with Simmons is significantly better than Embiid without Simmons. The sample where they are both "off" is essentially a compilation of garbage minutes, where both teams are playing end of bench guys.


IMHO you can't talk about an impact player if in all conditions where Embiid is OFF and Simmons is ON, the team has a this noticeable drop ... from competitor to below average team
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#59 » by GeorgeMarcus » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:03 am

mcmurphy wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
George the reality is much different...

In the last 3 season

Simmons (ON) Embiid (ON) 2819mins NetRtg= +11.5
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (ON) 1388mins NetRtg= +5.5
Simmons (ON) Embiid (OFF) 2836mins NetRtg= -2.41
Simmons (OFF) Embiid (OF) 1258mins NetRtg= -1.2


Simmons it does not have this great impact unlike Joel... indeed without Joel the team has a slightly better NetRtg without Ben


How is the reality different? The data shows that Embiid with Simmons is significantly better than Embiid without Simmons. The sample where they are both "off" is essentially a compilation of garbage minutes, where both teams are playing end of bench guys.


IMHO you can't talk about an impact player if in all conditions where Embiid is OFF and Simmons is ON, the team has a this noticeable drop ... from competitor to below average team


A noticeable drop because Embiid is off the court. That's what I was saying about being staggered against Embiid's minutes, and the effect that has on on/off. Embiid is by far the best on the team.
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Re: Annual Embiid Impact Thread 

Post#60 » by WestGOAT » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:12 am

mudsak wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
mudsak wrote:
As someone who doesn't watch a lot of Sixers games... can you elaborate? I would have assumed that Simmons is a great compliment to Embiid. Lack of shooting/spacing?



They are a very poor fit together, because of his lack of jumpshot the Sixers invert their offense a lot of the time with Horford and Embiid being the ones spotting up outside the 3 point line while Simmons tries to post up. Embiid & Simmons generally speaking don't really play off one another either, they exist on the court together but because of Brown's offense and Simmons limitations they don't run any PnR between Simmons and Embiid. Almost all of Embiid's offense is either a post up or a spot up, he gets very little from being the rollman, it's really a waste of potentially easy buckets.


I've noticed in the little bit that I've watched them that there didn't really seem to be much of a "system" in terms of offense. Strange that they wouldn't utilize the p/r. I would have to imagine that combo could destroy other teams. Both of those guys can finish at the rim.

I've thought Simmons would be an issue for Philly. He's an amazing player, but being a PG and unable to shoot is REALLY tough on any team in the NBA today. Even more so for this Philly roster who's obviously going to garner the majority of points in the paint. Looking at Simmons' shot stats for the season you can see he's hardly shot anything beyond 8ft form the basket. Paint is clogged on this team.

It would be interesting to see what kind of impact CP3 would have on this Philly team. I know they'd never make that move, but win-now-mode?... it could potentially be the difference maker for them in the playoffs.


They don't have a system cause Simmons can't shoot :lol:. Opposing teams can safely switch their p/r with no worries. Even Rondo coould hit a jumper if left wide-open.

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