If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then...

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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#81 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:06 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Whats would be the point of this? Ainge finally has a team that looks like they gel on and off the court and Hayward is still takes up a sizable portion of any team's cap. I just dont see the point of this honestly.

I get calling him a snake and all that other talking points and stuff, but the IT trade was a legit smart move. Sold IT at his highest value, unless Hayward starts playing at all nba level, hes not going to have a high trade value with his contract.


The point is to get a legitimate big. Their current biggest 5 is a Taco and Kanter, and neither are getting you the big man presence they need to go deep in the playoffs.

IT trade was smart. Exactly why I say that Ainge will do this. They have Brown and Tatum, why hang on to Hayward who is older and more expensive?


Hayward actually moves the ball around. Good luck with ball movement with just Kemba/Tatum/Brown out there on the perimeter for you, that's less than 8 assists total per game from those 3 guys. And like you said, he is older and expensive, what kind of value could he get back, what defensive big could Hayward get back in return? Also people continue to bash the Celtics big man rotation, yet somehow Boston has the 3rd best defense in the league right now. Trading away Hayward makes zero sense right now.


Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#82 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:08 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
The point is to get a legitimate big. Their current biggest 5 is a Taco and Kanter, and neither are getting you the big man presence they need to go deep in the playoffs.

IT trade was smart. Exactly why I say that Ainge will do this. They have Brown and Tatum, why hang on to Hayward who is older and more expensive?


Hayward actually moves the ball around. Good luck with ball movement with just Kemba/Tatum/Brown out there on the perimeter for you, that's less than 8 assists total per game from those 3 guys. And like you said, he is older and expensive, what kind of value could he get back, what defensive big could Hayward get back in return? Also people continue to bash the Celtics big man rotation, yet somehow Boston has the 3rd best defense in the league right now. Trading away Hayward makes zero sense right now.


Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Yup. Taking that away from this team would be beyond dumb to do.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#83 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:15 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
The point is to get a legitimate big. Their current biggest 5 is a Taco and Kanter, and neither are getting you the big man presence they need to go deep in the playoffs.

IT trade was smart. Exactly why I say that Ainge will do this. They have Brown and Tatum, why hang on to Hayward who is older and more expensive?


Hayward actually moves the ball around. Good luck with ball movement with just Kemba/Tatum/Brown out there on the perimeter for you, that's less than 8 assists total per game from those 3 guys. And like you said, he is older and expensive, what kind of value could he get back, what defensive big could Hayward get back in return? Also people continue to bash the Celtics big man rotation, yet somehow Boston has the 3rd best defense in the league right now. Trading away Hayward makes zero sense right now.


Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#84 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:18 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Hayward actually moves the ball around. Good luck with ball movement with just Kemba/Tatum/Brown out there on the perimeter for you, that's less than 8 assists total per game from those 3 guys. And like you said, he is older and expensive, what kind of value could he get back, what defensive big could Hayward get back in return? Also people continue to bash the Celtics big man rotation, yet somehow Boston has the 3rd best defense in the league right now. Trading away Hayward makes zero sense right now.


Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.



No the comparison stops at offense. Horford defense is going to be severely missed, but in terms of running the offense, playmaking and creating - Hayward is our horford this year
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#85 » by lordjeff05 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:33 pm

I’m glad Hayward is playing better but what do you see that changes the expectation for them?

In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#86 » by CoP » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:50 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:I’m glad Hayward is playing better but what do you see that changes the expectation for them?

In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers

With Middleton: Pressure the ball and force Middleton to pass it or create his own shot, where he is not as strong. With Embiid: Double him and force Simmons to shoot or hope that someone like Richardson doesn't go off.

I don't think that Hayward really changes the calculus much on the defensive end. His improved play has mostly been at the offensive end with ball movement, good playmaking, and reliable shooting.

The Celtics would rightly be underdogs to both teams, but Hayward playing better would give them a better chance to steal more wins from them.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#87 » by IgorK » Fri Nov 8, 2019 8:55 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Hayward actually moves the ball around. Good luck with ball movement with just Kemba/Tatum/Brown out there on the perimeter for you, that's less than 8 assists total per game from those 3 guys. And like you said, he is older and expensive, what kind of value could he get back, what defensive big could Hayward get back in return? Also people continue to bash the Celtics big man rotation, yet somehow Boston has the 3rd best defense in the league right now. Trading away Hayward makes zero sense right now.


Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.


This is what the other posters are missing - Cs don't need Hayward as much as they need interior help. If he's truly playing well, other teams WILL want him.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#88 » by MagicBagley18 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:01 pm

IgorK wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.


This is what the other posters are missing - Cs don't need Hayward as much as they need interior help. If he's truly playing well, other teams WILL want him.


What you’re missing is that if you take away his playmaking for a big, a big reason of the team’s success will turn back into last years problem, guys go iso and my turn your turn shots. Hayward allows for another ball handler on the court when kemba isn’t and another creator.

Tatum isn’t that and brown isn’t either. While your point about wings being our strength and abundance- you’re completely disregarding his importance to the flow of the entire team he has and his connection to Stevens who won’t want him traded.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#89 » by IgorK » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:05 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.


This is what the other posters are missing - Cs don't need Hayward as much as they need interior help. If he's truly playing well, other teams WILL want him.


What you’re missing is that if you take away his playmaking for a big, a big reason of the team’s success will turn back into last years problem, guys go iso and my turn your turn shots. Hayward allows for another ball handler on the court when kemba isn’t and another creator.

Tatum isn’t that and brown isn’t either. While your point about wings being our strength and abundance- you’re completely disregarding his importance to the flow of the entire team he has and his connection to Stevens who won’t want him traded.


Sorry, I doubt Ainge cares about the Brad/Gordon bromance.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#90 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:10 pm

IgorK wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Hayward’s playmaking is basically horford 2.0 this year offensively, except he can create his own offense better than AL. His ball handling and ability to create has been key,


Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.


This is what the other posters are missing - Cs don't need Hayward as much as they need interior help. If he's truly playing well, other teams WILL want him.


So what the Celtics need is to destroy their offense (ranked 15th) to help their defense (ranked 3rd)? Why not just flip Jaylen Brown if they're going to flip someone (I dont think they should)? Jaylen is the worst out of the starters when it comes to facilitating and he is the worst shooter out of the group as well.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#91 » by Colbinii » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:11 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:
In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers


While the Celtics don't have anyone on paper who can match-up with Embiid the route to beating the 76ers isn't going to be "Shut Down Embiid". The 76ers are a flawed team in that they don't really have anyone who can create their own shot in space. Embiid is solid offensively but expecting him to average something like 30/15/5 with all-time defense simply isn't possible for 30+ minutes per game for Embiid. So far the 76ers have struggled to get the offense going in the half-court and maximize Horford/Embiid together.

Everything said above, the 76ers are an extremely talented team and a defensive juggernaut. I can see the Celtics struggling to score more than 75-80 points against this 76ers in a playoff series.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#92 » by Hikari » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:14 pm

I wonder how long it is before they deal for Favors
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#93 » by DaddyCool19 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:16 pm

Hikari wrote:I wonder how long it is before they deal for Favors


Don't think that will happen. Matching salarys seems unlikely, as Boston wouldn't give up Smart for him.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#94 » by Joshyjess » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:27 pm

Some posters are saying that they should trade Hayward because he is older than the other starters. First of all, he's not that old, in fact he's at pretty much the prime age for a player. Secondly, a team needs good "veterans" who can help guide them. You really couldn't ask for a much better veteran player to have on your team than a healthy Hayward. He plays extremely smart ball (not solely depending on athletic ability which is something you can't teach) and this is a huge plus for teaching a young team like the C's. Horford, for example, is a great guy, and a great teammate, but you never really hear much about him being a great tutor for younger players (he's more stand-offish). From what I've seen so far, Hayward has become a really good mentor for the younger guys. You don't just get rid of a player like that.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#95 » by IgorK » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:46 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Hayward is back to being a REALLY good offensive player. He's rebounding alertly. Defensively he's good enough, but nothing like Horford, especially the Horford of a couple of years ago.


This is what the other posters are missing - Cs don't need Hayward as much as they need interior help. If he's truly playing well, other teams WILL want him.


So what the Celtics need is to destroy their offense (ranked 15th) to help their defense (ranked 3rd)? Why not just flip Jaylen Brown if they're going to flip someone (I dont think they should)? Jaylen is the worst out of the starters when it comes to facilitating and he is the worst shooter out of the group as well.


But they're not playing for the regular season, right? This lack of interior size might be ok in the regular season, but they'll need more than the Enes Taco in the middle to advance beyond the first round.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#96 » by timO » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:49 pm

All star in the east, middelton, russel etc its not a big deal.

Celtics gonna fall again in ECSF.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#97 » by lordjeff05 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:58 pm

CoP wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:I’m glad Hayward is playing better but what do you see that changes the expectation for them?

In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers

With Middleton: Pressure the ball and force Middleton to pass it or create his own shot, where he is not as strong. With Embiid: Double him and force Simmons to shoot or hope that someone like Richardson doesn't go off.

I don't think that Hayward really changes the calculus much on the defensive end. His improved play has mostly been at the offensive end with ball movement, good playmaking, and reliable shooting.

The Celtics would rightly be underdogs to both teams, but Hayward playing better would give them a better chance to steal more wins from them.


First off I completely agree with your last paragraph. But if you have to double Middleton with Giannis on the court you have a problem.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#98 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:59 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:I’m glad Hayward is playing better but what do you see that changes the expectation for them?

In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers


Kanter, while defensively dubious against smaller players, seems pretty reasonable against bulky post scorers. I'd expect Philly to be one of the few teams he starts against.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#99 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Nov 8, 2019 10:03 pm

CoP wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:I’m glad Hayward is playing better but what do you see that changes the expectation for them?

In the playoffs, what do you do when Middleton switches on Kemba? Who is guarding Embiid? Those questions don’t have answers

With Middleton: Pressure the ball and force Middleton to pass it or create his own shot, where he is not as strong. With Embiid: Double him and force Simmons to shoot or hope that someone like Richardson doesn't go off.

I don't think that Hayward really changes the calculus much on the defensive end. His improved play has mostly been at the offensive end with ball movement, good playmaking, and reliable shooting.

The Celtics would rightly be underdogs to both teams, but Hayward playing better would give them a better chance to steal more wins from them.


Well, one counter to forced switches is to scramble back as soon as practical. The Cs have been pretty good at that under Stevens.
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Re: If Gordon Hayward is an All-Star-level player this year then... 

Post#100 » by jsleesl28 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 10:45 pm

BigTrade92 wrote:Celtics will make a trade for a Center by the deadline.


There is an underrated guy who plays for the bulls that would fit Celtics real well.

Celtics should try to swing a trade for Wendall Carter jr. 3 way deal so the bulls can also unload otto porter and maybe get some draft picks.

Not gonna happen, but WCJ would be a great fit there.

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