Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore

Moderators: Domejandro, bwgood77, zimpy27, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus, PockyCandy, Prez, Yuri Vaultin, ken6199, Dirk

User avatar
PlatinumState
Senior
Posts: 624
And1: 641
Joined: Jul 26, 2016
       

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#41 » by PlatinumState » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:09 am

Lets hope he turned a corner, but its too early to get hyped.
User avatar
WHITE_HOT_HEAT
Sophomore
Posts: 116
And1: 164
Joined: Sep 28, 2019
Location: Brussels, Belgium
   

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#42 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:19 am

leolozon wrote:Would I be an a**hole if I pointed out that even while scoring 40 pts, he still had below average efficiency?

I’m more impress by the 7 assists considering he too often had tunnel vision.


I despise Wiggins because of his attitude, but could you tell me how 17/33 is below average efficiency?

Edit:
Ahh ok TS% with the FTs. Got it!
"And a Man?... A Man provides... And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it.... Because he's a Man...."
Dez
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,012
And1: 4,387
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#43 » by Dez » Sat Nov 9, 2019 10:26 am

The 7 assists and no turnovers is a really good development but I can't be impressed by a guy needing 33 shots to get 40 points.
User avatar
RaptorsLife
RealGM
Posts: 48,294
And1: 82,152
Joined: Feb 16, 2015
Location: Brampton
   

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#44 » by RaptorsLife » Sat Nov 9, 2019 11:57 am

Dez wrote:The 7 assists and no turnovers is a really good development but I can't be impressed by a guy needing 33 shots to get 40 points.

Kobe used to do this all the time...
Raptors til death
Dez
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,012
And1: 4,387
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#45 » by Dez » Sat Nov 9, 2019 12:23 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:
Dez wrote:The 7 assists and no turnovers is a really good development but I can't be impressed by a guy needing 33 shots to get 40 points.

Kobe used to do this all the time...


And? It wasn't impressive then either.
User avatar
RaptorsLife
RealGM
Posts: 48,294
And1: 82,152
Joined: Feb 16, 2015
Location: Brampton
   

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#46 » by RaptorsLife » Sat Nov 9, 2019 12:52 pm

Dez wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:
Dez wrote:The 7 assists and no turnovers is a really good development but I can't be impressed by a guy needing 33 shots to get 40 points.

Kobe used to do this all the time...


And? It wasn't impressive then either.

Damn you a hater like that ...
Raptors til death
Rubio9Guy
Rookie
Posts: 1,085
And1: 819
Joined: Dec 31, 2011

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#47 » by Rubio9Guy » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:06 pm

He definitely looks different. This hasn't been just the random annual surge from Wiggins.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using RealGM mobile app
Stillwater
General Manager
Posts: 9,834
And1: 2,525
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#48 » by Stillwater » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:09 pm

never been trash this is a bad take, but his motor given his obvious skill level has always been in question even before he was drafted #1.
if he was not in Minnesota his rep wouldnt be so bad as most of it is based on being overpaid and way to laid back
water aint the mirror unless you steal it
2019 REALGM draft contest winner
abark
Analyst
Posts: 3,507
And1: 1,594
Joined: May 21, 2003
Location: Miami
   

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#49 » by abark » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:31 pm

manlisten wrote:
leolozon wrote:
LeMasta wrote:
he shot 17/33 which isn't bad at all especially after playing 45 minutes


No, not bad, but if you include the 4/8 from the FT line, it’s below average.

Wiggins always had some good games from time to time, but he never sustained it. I’ll have too see more good games before I change my opinion.


It's funny how people value stats. A player can shoot over 50% from the field but leave 4 points at the free throw line and some consider it inefficient. Whereas another player could shoot just under 40% on the same attempts and leave 40-60 points from the field but shoot 100% for an extra 4 points at the line and it's considered more efficient.

Um, they are just looking at math and facts. Your example is pretty hyperbolic, but yes, it is very possible to shoot 50% from the field and score at a below average rate.

The average TS% is just over 55%. Very few players can hit that mark in their raw FG%, which means hitting a good deal of FT's and/or threes is very important to being an efficient scorer.

FG% is very misleading in evaluating scoring efficiency, especially in today's NBA.
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 43,105
And1: 28,762
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#50 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:56 pm

leolozon wrote:Would I be an a**hole if I pointed out that even while scoring 40 pts, he still had below average efficiency?

I’m more impress by the 7 assists considering he too often had tunnel vision.


40 points on 33 shots isn't bad efficiency.
leolozon
Veteran
Posts: 2,865
And1: 2,806
Joined: Nov 08, 2009

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#51 » by leolozon » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:13 pm

manlisten wrote:
leolozon wrote:
LeMasta wrote:
he shot 17/33 which isn't bad at all especially after playing 45 minutes


No, not bad, but if you include the 4/8 from the FT line, it’s below average.

Wiggins always had some good games from time to time, but he never sustained it. I’ll have too see more good games before I change my opinion.


It's funny how people value stats. A player can shoot over 50% from the field but leave 4 points at the free throw line and some consider it inefficient. Whereas another player could shoot just under 40% on the same attempts and leave 40-60 points from the field but shoot 100% for an extra 4 points at the line and it's considered more efficient.


I didn’t say he was inefficient, I said “below average” and “not bad”.

Do you want to argue that someone potentially going 0/10 from the FT line is being efficient?

4/8 FT is bad.
2/7 3pt is bad.
15/26 2pt is good.

Overall : below average.

Efficiency includes FT, I can’t believe we have to argue about it.
leolozon
Veteran
Posts: 2,865
And1: 2,806
Joined: Nov 08, 2009

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#52 » by leolozon » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:18 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
leolozon wrote:Would I be an a**hole if I pointed out that even while scoring 40 pts, he still had below average efficiency?

I’m more impress by the 7 assists considering he too often had tunnel vision.


40 points on 33 shots isn't bad efficiency.


I didn’t say bad, I said below average, as in Pretty close to average. I wouldn’t qualify that as bad.

Funny how some people want to argue that missing FTs isn’t being inefficient.
vagelis
Pro Prospect
Posts: 866
And1: 264
Joined: Jan 04, 2015
 

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#53 » by vagelis » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:49 pm

Some people stay with the stats, but anyone who watched the game saw Wiggins blowing the defense play after play and scoring big baskets.
He played pg and had 7 assists and zero turnovers.
He sent the game in overtime with the last drive and he scored the game winning 3.
He was clutch for third time this season with game winning shots in all 3 of them.
NotMyKawhi
Starter
Posts: 2,005
And1: 2,585
Joined: Jul 13, 2018

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#54 » by NotMyKawhi » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:52 pm

vagelis wrote:Some people stay with the stats, but anyone who watched the game saw Wiggins blowing the defense play after play and scoring big baskets.
He played pg and had 7 assists and zero turnovers.
He sent the game in overtime with the last drive and he scored the game winning 3.
He was clutch for third time this season with game winning shots in all 3 of them.


wiggins has always been lowkey clutch. made many big shots down the stretch during his short career

The key w Wiggins is just how bad he wants it bc he's legit unstoppable when he's on. Has NBA moves that can't be stopped.
Jabroni Lames
Senior
Posts: 591
And1: 708
Joined: Apr 08, 2018

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#55 » by Jabroni Lames » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:54 pm

life_saver wrote:Biggest change so far this season is that he is taking way less midrange, long 2's and instead driving more to the rim & more 3's.

% of midrange(including long 2's) shot attempts for Wiggins by season -
14-15: 39%
15-16: 38%
16-17: 39%
17-18: 33%
18-19: 31%
19-20: 20%

That's such a big decline in % of midrange attempts this season which is what everyone wanted to see from Wiggins from a long time..instead he is taking more 3 pointers this ssn (35% of his FGA are 3 pointers now and this is his career best when it comes % of 3PA).


Morey Ball
jlokine
Starter
Posts: 2,221
And1: 2,029
Joined: Jun 08, 2013
     

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#56 » by jlokine » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:05 pm

maple jordan has arrived...
karkinos
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,203
And1: 1,459
Joined: Nov 06, 2009

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#57 » by karkinos » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:09 pm

glad realgm has records of all my "buying your andrew wiggins stock" posts :lol:
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 22,548
And1: 6,292
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#58 » by Worm Guts » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:26 pm

Roddy wrote:Wait, a 24 years old kid is still improving ?

Image


Considering he spent the last 3 seasons getting worse,it kind of is surprising
Showdown
Rookie
Posts: 1,169
And1: 767
Joined: Feb 15, 2019

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#59 » by Showdown » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:58 pm

He and RJ should change their nicknames because Wiggins always had mamba mentality
TheZachAttack
Senior
Posts: 628
And1: 485
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
       

Re: Is Andrew Wiggins not so trash anymore 

Post#60 » by TheZachAttack » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:28 pm

A lot of his improvement is structural. Under Thibs he was primarily playing off of Butler with 2 bigs in the paint. Picture this, Butler drives bringing his man to the paint and gets cut off by the 2 bigs and his man...kicks to Andrew who tries to drive and runs into 4 men in the paint. Mid range 2 or contested 10 footer.

The new scheme with Cov and Towns pulls bigs away from the rim and spaces the floor. Wiggins is the primary ball handler and can take advantage of the space and the fewer bodies in the paint and has outlets in each corner to kick too if he gets cut off.

It does look like his handle has improved a little bit, it’s tighter and it’s allowing him to get all the way to the rim creatively and utilize his athleticism, but a lot of that is also having to dribble through fewer bodies that last dribble.

Wiggins was like Goff under Jeff Fisher with Thibs or Dalvin Cook under DeFillipo.

Wiggins has definitively improved, especially in his on court awareness of his passing outlets and his shot selection. However a lot of it structural. The efficiency and volume is not far off from where he was before Thibs when he was averaging 23.5 on ~54-55% TS (IIRC). Wiggins in his 3rd year with a better shot selection would have been similar to now.

Scheme matters. Role matters. Confidence matters. Wiggins is in a system and role perfect for him to really succeed if he takes it. He has so far and to his credit he’s been aggressive when called upon.

I hope he keeps it up. I think it will because a lot of the imrovement is just due to structural improvement in the system and role around him.

Return to The General Board