Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#141 » by Karmaloop » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:51 pm

Trey24 wrote:Regarding Ingrams jump in NOLA, I think one needs to look at the situation he was in with the Lakers. He was constantly in trade rumors from day one and can imagine he would have wanted to separate himself from that environment. It is no secret that the Magic Johnson Lakers were a **** show. That mixed with obvious hard work and dedication to the game and you see what he is capable of as a top 2 scoring option.

I am hoping that the Hornets tnder him a max offer. One this is for certain, SOMEBODY is going to tender him the max offer sheet. The big question is: Will the Pels match?


Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#142 » by Trey24 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:55 pm

He is a big time improved shooter in NOLA. Volume doesn't always equal better numbers. He has definitely stepped it up in NOLA. So yeah it is different.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#143 » by ragesincemdxvi » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:13 pm

Karmaloop wrote:
Trey24 wrote:Regarding Ingrams jump in NOLA, I think one needs to look at the situation he was in with the Lakers. He was constantly in trade rumors from day one and can imagine he would have wanted to separate himself from that environment. It is no secret that the Magic Johnson Lakers were a **** show. That mixed with obvious hard work and dedication to the game and you see what he is capable of as a top 2 scoring option.

I am hoping that the Hornets tnder him a max offer. One this is for certain, SOMEBODY is going to tender him the max offer sheet. The big question is: Will the Pels match?


Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.


For real some of these people act like the Pels are some kind of miracle workers :lol:

BI showed incremental improvement every year in LA specially in the second half towards the end of the season.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#144 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:16 pm

Karmaloop wrote:
Trey24 wrote:Regarding Ingrams jump in NOLA, I think one needs to look at the situation he was in with the Lakers. He was constantly in trade rumors from day one and can imagine he would have wanted to separate himself from that environment. It is no secret that the Magic Johnson Lakers were a **** show. That mixed with obvious hard work and dedication to the game and you see what he is capable of as a top 2 scoring option.

I am hoping that the Hornets tnder him a max offer. One this is for certain, SOMEBODY is going to tender him the max offer sheet. The big question is: Will the Pels match?


Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.

I gotta disagree with this somewhat. While on the surface he seems to be not doing much differently, but his game has changed a good amount. Just a quick comparison of Ingram over the last 3 seasons

2017-2018:
Time per possession: 3.7
AVG Secs per Touch: 3.9
AVG Drib per touch: 2.9

2018-2019:
Time per possession: 3.8
AVG Secs per Touch: 3.8
AVG Drib per touch: 2.8

2019-2020:
Time per possession: 3.8
AVG Secs per Touch: 3.4
AVG Drib per touch: 2.5

So looking at those numbers, ya it looks like he hasn't changed much. Almost identical numbers with how much he sees the ball and how long he holds onto it. But he has become far more aggressive and efficient, while also having a significant change in style with him having his 3pt rate 3x higher this year than last year.

So playing pretty much identical minutes and touching the ball almost the identical amount. He's attempting 4 more shots a game, 3 more 3s a game, averaging 6 more points per game. The aggression level and shot selection are just on another level for him. All while taking up no more time with the ball.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#145 » by Catchall » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:28 pm

I think Ingram is at least a Buddy Hield-value player, probably a bit more since he's still improving. I'd also look at Jaylen Brown's contract and put Ingram at least in the same ball park.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#146 » by Karmaloop » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:42 am

Duke4life831 wrote:So playing pretty much identical minutes and touching the ball almost the identical amount. He's attempting 4 more shots a game, 3 more 3s a game, averaging 6 more points per game. The aggression level and shot selection are just on another level for him. All while taking up no more time with the ball.


Up until Zion returned, he was New Orleans' offensive playmaker. Lonzo was one as well, but Ingram was the guy the offense was revolved around. Luke Walton isn't a bad coach IMO (not a good one either tbh), but his offense didn't make Ingram shine.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#147 » by John Murdoch » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:03 am

I agree that Jaylen Browns deal is around what i expect
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#148 » by ADMVP » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:54 pm

I think a full max will be offered. Someone will offer him that if not us.

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#149 » by lordjeff05 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:14 pm

Karmaloop wrote:
Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.


Yeah...this is just factually incorrect. The way he shoots and where he shoots is different.

He shoots the 4th most 3 pointers in the league for a small forward. He has TRIPLED the amount of threes he is taking while also increasing his 3 point percentage. That isn’t incremental, that is night and day. He essentially went from shooting the 3 like Solomon Hill to shooting the 3 like Khris Middleton. That isn’t a small change, that is shooting like a different player.

I can’t think of another player that has improved that much from 3 (and from the free throw line) while increasing the amount of 3’s like that.

This completely changes the kind of player he can be. If Ingram was shooting 41 percent on 5 catch and shoot 3’s a game, the Dynamics of the Davis trade would be really different.

A player who shoots that well has to be guarded differently on the perimeter which opens up his floor game even more but also provides spacing for his teammates. The player he was from last year had value but would need the ball otherwise you could ignore him. You can’t say the same thing about him this year and that makes him a really different player.

Now I do think his assists rebounds and inside game resembles an incremental increase that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but the addition of the high volume, high efficiency catch and shoot 3 is what makes him so different.

For what it’s worth, Lonzo also really improved from 3, especially with the catch and shoot 3, where we went from 32 percent to 40 percent. He can also play off ball now which again substantially increases his value, especially in the crunch time, when he won’t have the ball in his hands as much.

Fred Vinson is one of the best skills coaches in the game. He has also helped Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans, and Anthony Davis substantially with their shots.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#150 » by sfernald » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:56 pm

bois good. don’t f dis up demps.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#151 » by Lost Angel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 am

Catchall wrote:I think Ingram is at least a Buddy Hield-value player, probably a bit more since he's still improving. I'd also look at Jaylen Brown's contract and put Ingram at least in the same ball park.


lol what Ingram is way better than either of those guys
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#152 » by Dutchball97 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:43 am

24 points on 46/38/85% shooting, can play both forward spots, decent rebounder, decent playmaker, average defender and is still only 22 years old. He's an All-Star with potential to get even better, players like that get max or near max contracts.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#153 » by Jstock12 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am

He's really good. New Orleans got more than a fair deal for AD.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#154 » by Catchall » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:13 pm

Lost Angel wrote:
Catchall wrote:I think Ingram is at least a Buddy Hield-value player, probably a bit more since he's still improving. I'd also look at Jaylen Brown's contract and put Ingram at least in the same ball park.


lol what Ingram is way better than either of those guys


Eh, maybe. Ingram will probably get a max deal while those guys are just under max.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#155 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:31 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.


Yeah...this is just factually incorrect. The way he shoots and where he shoots is different.

He shoots the 4th most 3 pointers in the league for a small forward. He has TRIPLED the amount of threes he is taking while also increasing his 3 point percentage. That isn’t incremental, that is night and day. He essentially went from shooting the 3 like Solomon Hill to shooting the 3 like Khris Middleton. That isn’t a small change, that is shooting like a different player.

I can’t think of another player that has improved that much from 3 (and from the free throw line) while increasing the amount of 3’s like that.

This completely changes the kind of player he can be. If Ingram was shooting 41 percent on 5 catch and shoot 3’s a game, the Dynamics of the Davis trade would be really different.

A player who shoots that well has to be guarded differently on the perimeter which opens up his floor game even more but also provides spacing for his teammates. The player he was from last year had value but would need the ball otherwise you could ignore him. You can’t say the same thing about him this year and that makes him a really different player.

Now I do think his assists rebounds and inside game resembles an incremental increase that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but the addition of the high volume, high efficiency catch and shoot 3 is what makes him so different.

For what it’s worth, Lonzo also really improved from 3, especially with the catch and shoot 3, where we went from 32 percent to 40 percent. He can also play off ball now which again substantially increases his value, especially in the crunch time, when he won’t have the ball in his hands as much.

Fred Vinson is one of the best skills coaches in the game. He has also helped Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans, and Anthony Davis substantially with their shots.


He shot well from 3 his last season in LA, he is just doing it now with more volume. I think what he meant to say was what he is doing now is on par with the trajectory of growth he had already been displaying. His only blip in the road was the first part of the season learning to play with LeBron, but by January he was back on track with increased numbers across the board.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#156 » by skones » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:47 pm

Karmaloop wrote:
Trey24 wrote:Regarding Ingrams jump in NOLA, I think one needs to look at the situation he was in with the Lakers. He was constantly in trade rumors from day one and can imagine he would have wanted to separate himself from that environment. It is no secret that the Magic Johnson Lakers were a **** show. That mixed with obvious hard work and dedication to the game and you see what he is capable of as a top 2 scoring option.

I am hoping that the Hornets tnder him a max offer. One this is for certain, SOMEBODY is going to tender him the max offer sheet. The big question is: Will the Pels match?


Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.


He's scoring almost 8 points per 100 possessions more than his top season in Los Angeles and doing it at a 59TS% compared to his previous career high of 55.5TS%. That's a significant jump. Dramatically increasing volume, scoring rate, and efficiency is DEFINITELY different.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#157 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:03 pm

In the last decade, only 8 players have made the all-star game in the West by age 22 (8 including Ingram). That alone shows the kind of potential that he has. Then again you add in the fact that he just put up a 26/6/4 season on 59 TS%. Its pretty obvious he is going to get a max and most likely a 5 year max.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#158 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:14 pm

skones wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Trey24 wrote:Regarding Ingrams jump in NOLA, I think one needs to look at the situation he was in with the Lakers. He was constantly in trade rumors from day one and can imagine he would have wanted to separate himself from that environment. It is no secret that the Magic Johnson Lakers were a **** show. That mixed with obvious hard work and dedication to the game and you see what he is capable of as a top 2 scoring option.

I am hoping that the Hornets tnder him a max offer. One this is for certain, SOMEBODY is going to tender him the max offer sheet. The big question is: Will the Pels match?


Except he's not really doing anything different in New Orleans than he was doing in Los Angeles. Other than the volume in New Orleans, the numbers are fairly similar to that when he was in a Lakers' uniform.


He's scoring almost 8 points per 100 possessions more than his top season in Los Angeles and doing it at a 59TS% compared to his previous career high of 55.5TS%. That's a significant jump. Dramatically increasing volume, scoring rate, and efficiency is DEFINITELY different.

Ya and its not just him shooting better. His 3pt rate went from 13% to 35%. His shot selection is drastically different than it was before. Even when he started to really show signs of star potential at the end of last year over his last 20 games or so, he was still only taking about 2 3s per game.

He is far more confident and aggressive with the ball this year, his jumper is much better as well which has led to him drastically changing his shot selection. Its pretty different than his time with LA.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#159 » by Infinitimind » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:10 pm

Catchall wrote:
Lost Angel wrote:
Catchall wrote:I think Ingram is at least a Buddy Hield-value player, probably a bit more since he's still improving. I'd also look at Jaylen Brown's contract and put Ingram at least in the same ball park.


lol what Ingram is way better than either of those guys


Eh, maybe. Ingram will probably get a max deal while those guys are just under max.


I agreed Ingram is better, and would should get the match. The pelicans should have sign him to extension before the season starter
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#160 » by Alonzo_Morning » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:48 am

Lost Angel wrote:
Catchall wrote:I think Ingram is at least a Buddy Hield-value player, probably a bit more since he's still improving. I'd also look at Jaylen Brown's contract and put Ingram at least in the same ball park.


lol what Ingram is way better than either of those guys


You think Buddy has any sort of half court iso game? His handles are too Weak. Buddy is a top 3 ish 3pt shooter but that's really about it

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