Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#161 » by iamworthy » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:02 am

There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#162 » by OGLife » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:20 am

I'm really interested to see what the Raptors do with FVV and what the Pelicans do with Ingram
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#163 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:39 am

iamworthy wrote:There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.

Same could be said for Ben Simmons (Embiid) and Jamal Murray (Jokic), but both got the 5-year offer from their teams. It also makes more sense for a small market to offer it, it ideally builds a better relationship with the player with hope he doesn't leave as a UFA.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#164 » by iamworthy » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:47 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.

Same could be said for Ben Simmons (Embiid) and Jamal Murray (Jokic), but both got the 5-year offer from their teams. It also makes more sense for a small market to offer it, it ideally builds a better relationship with the player with hope he doesn't leave as a UFA.


Ben Simmons is understandable. I wouldn't have given murray 5 years. Just because another franchise makes bad decisions doesn't mean you have to. If I'm the pels I would have like to see Ingram and Zion together for a year. Zion is the market, and honestly, Ingram is better than lonzo but if lonzo clicks better with Zion then what.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#165 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:54 am

iamworthy wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.

Same could be said for Ben Simmons (Embiid) and Jamal Murray (Jokic), but both got the 5-year offer from their teams. It also makes more sense for a small market to offer it, it ideally builds a better relationship with the player with hope he doesn't leave as a UFA.


Ben Simmons is understandable. I wouldn't have given murray 5 years. Just because another franchise makes bad decisions doesn't mean you have to. If I'm the pels I would have like to see Ingram and Zion together for a year. Zion is the market, and honestly, Ingram is better than lonzo but if lonzo clicks better with Zion then what.


Then they sign Lonzo as well. They can afford all 3, especially with Lonzo not going to be a max player. Plus it's much easier to replace Lonzo than it is Ingram. You're not going to find too many wing players to plug along Zion that can shoot 3s at a high rate and efficiency, can create for himself in the half-court, facilitates, and is a very low usage player when it comes to time with the ball.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#166 » by iamworthy » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:06 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Same could be said for Ben Simmons (Embiid) and Jamal Murray (Jokic), but both got the 5-year offer from their teams. It also makes more sense for a small market to offer it, it ideally builds a better relationship with the player with hope he doesn't leave as a UFA.


Ben Simmons is understandable. I wouldn't have given murray 5 years. Just because another franchise makes bad decisions doesn't mean you have to. If I'm the pels I would have like to see Ingram and Zion together for a year. Zion is the market, and honestly, Ingram is better than lonzo but if lonzo clicks better with Zion then what.


Then they sign Lonzo as well. They can afford all 3, especially with Lonzo not going to be a max player. Plus it's much easier to replace Lonzo than it is Ingram. You're not going to find too many wing players to plug along Zion that can shoot 3s at a high rate and efficiency, can create for himself in the half-court, facilitates, and is a very low usage player when it comes to time with the ball.


Lonzo, BI, and Zion aren't winning anything important in the NBA. Lonzo will have a bigger impact with Zion just because he's always looking to get his teammates involved. I also need to see another year of Ingram shooting the 3 to become a believer. What did BI average when Zion played?
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#167 » by Lost Angel » Wed Jul 1, 2020 9:11 am

iamworthy wrote:There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.


I get what your saying, but the fact is Ingram is a 22 year old, All-Star player. In the western conference. There’s only been 8 of those players in the last 10 years.

You absolutely max a guy like Ingram.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#168 » by NO-KG-AI » Wed Jul 1, 2020 11:59 am

Lost Angel wrote:
iamworthy wrote:There's really no reason for the pels to offer a 5 year. The franchise guy is Zion, not Ingram.


I get what your saying, but the fact is Ingram is a 22 year old, All-Star player. In the western conference. There’s only been 8 of those players in the last 10 years.

You absolutely max a guy like Ingram.


Yea, he might not be an MVP candidate, but a guy with length, athleticism, and shooting, that is already a pretty damn good scorer isn't someone you just let goat age 22. He's theoretically a perfect complement at the other F spot to Zion. His shooting has come so far that I've bought in fully on him as a second star type.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#169 » by ADMVP » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:03 pm

I feel like the people wanting us to not sign him just want to grab him in FA.

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#170 » by lordjeff05 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:27 pm

hoosierdaddy34 wrote:
He shot well from 3 his last season in LA, he is just doing it now with more volume. I think what he meant to say was what he is doing now is on par with the trajectory of growth he had already been displaying. His only blip in the road was the first part of the season learning to play with LeBron, but by January he was back on track with increased numbers across the board.


Yeah and I disagree with that. I think he displayed the trajectory of a good player last year but not in the way he is now. What I mean is that it shouldn’t be a surprise that Ingram is averaging 20 plus points a game, especially with Zion out, but his game looked like it was made to be more ball dominant/ball stopperish than what he’s shown this year. Think LeBron, Kawhi, Derozan. All of those are good players and two are mvps but none of them are what you’d call complimentary players. They have to be the guy on their team otherwise it doesn’t really work.

That was always going to be a problem with a guy like Zion coming in to the mix. BI isn’t going to be the focal point and prior to this year it was an open question of whether he could score in that scenario.

BI’s numbers have gone down a little bit but I think that has more to do with the fact that we only have one floor spacing big to pair with him and Zion (Melli). Having Favors out there kills spacing even though it helps the defense. The best way to maximize Ingram and Zion is to pair them with a rim protecting floor spacing big, which is why I’m so high on a guy like Mo Bamba.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#171 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Thu Jul 2, 2020 6:40 am

lordjeff05 wrote:
hoosierdaddy34 wrote:
He shot well from 3 his last season in LA, he is just doing it now with more volume. I think what he meant to say was what he is doing now is on par with the trajectory of growth he had already been displaying. His only blip in the road was the first part of the season learning to play with LeBron, but by January he was back on track with increased numbers across the board.


Yeah and I disagree with that. I think he displayed the trajectory of a good player last year but not in the way he is now. What I mean is that it shouldn’t be a surprise that Ingram is averaging 20 plus points a game, especially with Zion out, but his game looked like it was made to be more ball dominant/ball stopperish than what he’s shown this year. Think LeBron, Kawhi, Derozan. All of those are good players and two are mvps but none of them are what you’d call complimentary players. They have to be the guy on their team otherwise it doesn’t really work.

That was always going to be a problem with a guy like Zion coming in to the mix. BI isn’t going to be the focal point and prior to this year it was an open question of whether he could score in that scenario.

BI’s numbers have gone down a little bit but I think that has more to do with the fact that we only have one floor spacing big to pair with him and Zion (Melli). Having Favors out there kills spacing even though it helps the defense. The best way to maximize Ingram and Zion is to pair them with a rim protecting floor spacing big, which is why I’m so high on a guy like Mo Bamba.


It doesn’t really matter what you choose to believe. He averaged 23 pts 5.5 reb 3 ast on 56% FG and 38% from 3 in January, February and March (till he got the blood clots) that season. Those numbers aren’t far off the 24-6-4 he did this season.

If you don’t believe me, this was what was being said about his performance at the end of the year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2019/3/4/18247830/brandon-ingram-lakers-stats-highlights-breakdown
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#172 » by Jody Smokz » Thu Jul 2, 2020 1:19 pm

They let BI go where do they get quality wing offense from? Let's say Zion and Zo become a thing. You still need a quality wing in the NBA to win.

iamworthy wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:
Ben Simmons is understandable. I wouldn't have given murray 5 years. Just because another franchise makes bad decisions doesn't mean you have to. If I'm the pels I would have like to see Ingram and Zion together for a year. Zion is the market, and honestly, Ingram is better than lonzo but if lonzo clicks better with Zion then what.


Then they sign Lonzo as well. They can afford all 3, especially with Lonzo not going to be a max player. Plus it's much easier to replace Lonzo than it is Ingram. You're not going to find too many wing players to plug along Zion that can shoot 3s at a high rate and efficiency, can create for himself in the half-court, facilitates, and is a very low usage player when it comes to time with the ball.


Lonzo, BI, and Zion aren't winning anything important in the NBA. Lonzo will have a bigger impact with Zion just because he's always looking to get his teammates involved. I also need to see another year of Ingram shooting the 3 to become a believer. What did BI average when Zion played?
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#173 » by HMFFL » Thu Jul 2, 2020 2:15 pm

Trey24 wrote:I think that while Ingram may not be a max player right now, teams need to bet on his future. I'm a huge fan of his. It would surprise me if he wasn't tendered a max offer in October
I concur.
In addition to what you said, New Orleans must back his future, because the last thing they need to do is subtract talent away from Zion.

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#174 » by Karmaloop » Thu Jul 2, 2020 4:56 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:Yeah...this is just factually incorrect. The way he shoots and where he shoots is different.


You're missing the ENTIRETY of the post. As I mentioned, the biggest change for Ingram is the volume in which he's asked to shoulder the scoring load. Under Luke Walton (without LeBron on the roster), the Lakers had 8 guys average at least 10 FGA per game. Granted, that number is slightly inflated by the deadline deal that saw Isaiah Thomas go from Cleveland to LA, but the point remains the same. The Pelicans' only had FIVE players average 10+ FGA per game. In fact, the trio of Ingram, Jrue, and Zion averaged a COMBINED 50.3 FGA per game, while the Lakers top 3 FGA (excluding Isaiah Thomas) averaged a combined 39 FGA per game. Guys like KCP and Brook Lopez shouldn't be averaging 11 FGA per game while Brandon Ingram averages 13. The problem was Luke Walton. And you can confirm it based on what he said during his initial hiring interview for his belief on how he wanted the offense to run, and supported both by numbers AND what you see on TV. His vision for the offense relied less on talent, and more about movement. That type of offense only works when you have talent that exceeds the system (i.e. Golden State with Kevin Durant) or a team that doesn't have a ton of individual talent. Now you could probably put part of the blame on Ingram for being passive, and I'd agree with that statement.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#175 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Thu Jul 2, 2020 6:03 pm

hoosierdaddy34 wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:
hoosierdaddy34 wrote:
He shot well from 3 his last season in LA, he is just doing it now with more volume. I think what he meant to say was what he is doing now is on par with the trajectory of growth he had already been displaying. His only blip in the road was the first part of the season learning to play with LeBron, but by January he was back on track with increased numbers across the board.


Yeah and I disagree with that. I think he displayed the trajectory of a good player last year but not in the way he is now. What I mean is that it shouldn’t be a surprise that Ingram is averaging 20 plus points a game, especially with Zion out, but his game looked like it was made to be more ball dominant/ball stopperish than what he’s shown this year. Think LeBron, Kawhi, Derozan. All of those are good players and two are mvps but none of them are what you’d call complimentary players. They have to be the guy on their team otherwise it doesn’t really work.

That was always going to be a problem with a guy like Zion coming in to the mix. BI isn’t going to be the focal point and prior to this year it was an open question of whether he could score in that scenario.

BI’s numbers have gone down a little bit but I think that has more to do with the fact that we only have one floor spacing big to pair with him and Zion (Melli). Having Favors out there kills spacing even though it helps the defense. The best way to maximize Ingram and Zion is to pair them with a rim protecting floor spacing big, which is why I’m so high on a guy like Mo Bamba.


It doesn’t really matter what you choose to believe. He averaged 23 pts 5.5 reb 3 ast on 56% FG and 38% from 3 in January, February and March (till he got the blood clots) that season. Those numbers aren’t far off the 24-6-4 he did this season.

If you don’t believe me, this was what was being said about his performance at the end of the year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2019/3/4/18247830/brandon-ingram-lakers-stats-highlights-breakdown


Really what is happening is these Pelicans fans and Lakers Haters that bagged on BI (and the Lakers “crappy offer” for AD) before the trade are trying to justify their own bad takes at that time. So they have concocted this false narrative that he’s made massive leaps that can only be attributed to something special that the Pelicans are doing with Ingram. But you look at his entire career and you track is growth, and it’s painfully obvious that this is all part of a natural progression for BI. But people need to massage their fragile ego rather than just admit they were blinded by Lakers hate and took it out on Ingram, Zo and the rest.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#176 » by Bologna Smasher » Thu Jul 2, 2020 6:49 pm

Ingram is an easy max for a team like the Pelicans. He's a good fit next to Zion and he's going to be even better than he already is sooner than later.

I really wanted the Kings to grab him when the Lakers/Cousins trade rumors were going on. If the rumors were true, think we dropped the ball again. At least we weren't the only ones, Spurs apparently didn't want him for Kawhi either.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#177 » by HMFFL » Thu Jul 2, 2020 7:21 pm

Bologna Smasher wrote:Ingram is an easy max for a team like the Pelicans. He's a good fit next to Zion and he's going to be even better than he already is sooner than later.

I really wanted the Kings to grab him when the Lakers/Cousins trade rumors were going on. If the rumors were true, think we dropped the ball again. At least we weren't the only ones, Spurs apparently didn't want him for Kawhi either.
The fit will be determined how much success the team has. I doubt Zion or the NBA will want him staying if New Orleans doesn't become a serious contender during the short term. Time will tell.

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#178 » by Trey24 » Fri Jul 3, 2020 2:24 am

HMFFL wrote:
Trey24 wrote:I think that while Ingram may not be a max player right now, teams need to bet on his future. I'm a huge fan of his. It would surprise me if he wasn't tendered a max offer in October
I concur.
In addition to what you said, New Orleans must back his future, because the last thing they need to do is subtract talent away from Zion.

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I agree on the talent beside Zion, but I can also imagine one of their avenues being shed salary heading into next summers FA. However, it is hard for me to believe that they would be able to bring in a player with more upside than Ingram.

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