Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP

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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#61 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:10 pm

My Duke bias cherry picked stats of the day.

Between Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Murray and Siakam (big names of the 2016 draft). For this season Ingram ranks

#1 in PPG
#2 in RPG
#3 in APG
#1 in FTA
#1 in FG%
#1 in TS%
#1 in eFG%
#1 in PER

I will not hear any arguments about sample size and other stats that poke holes in this argument. Ingram is the best player from the 2016 draft, I will listen to nothing else.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#62 » by Marcus » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:19 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Jamal Murray got a 5 year max. There is zero chance unless a blood cot pops up again that Ingram doesn't at least get a 4 year max. The guy is averaging

25/7/4 on 61 TS%, 58 eFG% and has a 2.9 BPM. All at the age of just 22 years old.

I know people bring up the On/Off. Well he chopped his - On/Off in half last night. So when we're at the point where 1 game can have that significant of effect on it, kind of means the sample size is way too small.

Plus I think it is very telling that you look at Ingram's game log, you see a pretty damn consistent start to the season. He's not playing any better now than he did 7 games ago. But you see his +/- and on/off improving game after game lately. Why is that? Again he's not playing any better, JJ Redick after a horrible start has begun to look like himself. Jrue Holiday after a horrible start has begun to look like himself. The other vets that Ingram gets major minutes with are playing better. Which means they're no longer hurting his +/- and on/off.


next argument to debunk will be how he's supposed to disappear when Zion returns.

Said it before the season started and I will continue to do so (especially with B.I.'s play backing me up) Zion should only eat off garbage buckets and lobs because there is more than enough firepower there if B.I. can turn the corner and be a focal point guy which appears to be the case.


Yup. Lets remember what we have seen from Zion so far, Zion has yet to ever be a ball dominant player. At Duke RJ was the high usage guy with the ball always in his hands. In preseason again wasn't really a guy that dominated the ball. Did most his damage on the break, cuts and rebounds.

I do think the question does become Ingram or Jrue though. I still question if the trio of Lonzo/Jrue/Ingram will work. Someone out of those 3 needs to get relegated to the 3rd ball handler. Ingram definitely wouldn't be my vote to be the 3rd ball handler. If Im Griffin and Gentry, once Zion gets back, my entire focus is building around Zion/Ingram. I think those 2 fit together perfectly because of how dominant Zion is off the ball and how dominant Ingram is showing to be on the ball, plus with his constantly improving passing game.

I will say hearing Reggie say Zion looks like he has put even more weight on since being out doesn't sound great. I still wouldnt be against sitting him out all year to get him in shape.



apparently the talk is he's back mid-December according to the Wiretap here.

Back on-topic though I think going back to what you were saying earlier this season Jrue will eventually be the odd man out. NAW hasn't quite put it together yet but Zo could be solid enough if B.I. passing chops continue to grow and you get back something in the way of vet guard play back in Jrue deal.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#63 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:24 pm

Rastas wrote:Probably not max due to his health history , but between 20 to 25 mill a year is about right .


20 million is what Michael Jordan pays guys who just **** the bed for an entire nba season.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#64 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:28 pm

Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
next argument to debunk will be how he's supposed to disappear when Zion returns.

Said it before the season started and I will continue to do so (especially with B.I.'s play backing me up) Zion should only eat off garbage buckets and lobs because there is more than enough firepower there if B.I. can turn the corner and be a focal point guy which appears to be the case.


Yup. Lets remember what we have seen from Zion so far, Zion has yet to ever be a ball dominant player. At Duke RJ was the high usage guy with the ball always in his hands. In preseason again wasn't really a guy that dominated the ball. Did most his damage on the break, cuts and rebounds.

I do think the question does become Ingram or Jrue though. I still question if the trio of Lonzo/Jrue/Ingram will work. Someone out of those 3 needs to get relegated to the 3rd ball handler. Ingram definitely wouldn't be my vote to be the 3rd ball handler. If Im Griffin and Gentry, once Zion gets back, my entire focus is building around Zion/Ingram. I think those 2 fit together perfectly because of how dominant Zion is off the ball and how dominant Ingram is showing to be on the ball, plus with his constantly improving passing game.

I will say hearing Reggie say Zion looks like he has put even more weight on since being out doesn't sound great. I still wouldnt be against sitting him out all year to get him in shape.



apparently the talk is he's back mid-December according to the Wiretap here.

Back on-topic though I think going back to what you were saying earlier this season Jrue will eventually be the odd man out. NAW hasn't quite put it together yet but Zo could be solid enough if B.I. passing chops continue to grow and you get back something in the way of vet guard play back in Jrue deal.


Ill believe that when I see it haha.

Ya from day 1 I thought Ingram was going to shine and Jrue would be the guy on the outs for a couple reasons. Age he doesn't fit with the core roster, and his contract. He will be an expiring contract next season and he wont be a restricted free agent. I have a hard time seeing the Pels risking him walking with nothing in return.

Then when it comes to fit, like I said you got Lonzo/Ingram/Jrue. All 3 guys need to be at minimum your #2 ball handler. The second you put them as the 3rd option, their value offensively takes a big hit. I also think we have seen no matter the combo, 2 of the 3 playing together looks good, all 3 out there at once not so much.

We also see that when the Pels need a bucket, they go to Ingram. All 4th quarter last night in a tight game, possession after possession they went to Ingram (rightfully so in my biased opinion). I just think Jrue is the most likely to go because of the age thing and he will bring back a good amount as well.

I said it before the season and think its even more obvious now. Zion/Ingram are your two building blocks, everyone else needs to be able to play around those two. If they cant, they should be viewed as a movable asset.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#65 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:36 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:
Rastas wrote:Probably not max due to his health history , but between 20 to 25 mill a year is about right .


20 million is what Michael Jordan pays guys who just **** the bed for an entire nba season.


Yup. Again unless another blood cot pops up, the question isn't going to be if Ingram gets the max, its whether the Pels give him the 5 year or match a 4 year max from another team. If the Pels want him to be a building block going forward (I think they would be dumb not to do this), they would make sure that 5/170 contract is in front of Ingram's face so it can be made official the second FA begins. You let him get a max offer from another team and you match it, that sends a message to him you dont view him as a building block and things probably wont be smooth going forward. But ya I think he gets that 5/170 right when free agency begins. Lets remember Jamal Murray (from his draft class) put up 18/4/5 on 53 TS% and a 0.1 BPM got the 5/170. Ingram is getting the max without a doubt.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#66 » by SweetTouch » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:46 pm

If he didn’t get injured last year Lakers would of lost in the finals
Stop being so disrespectful.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#67 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:06 pm

getitdone323 wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:
getitdone323 wrote:It just show the lakers hate is so so so deep, sadly the level hate you see for them is similar to KKK and ppl of color.


Why don't you get over yourself.


found another one.


LOL, I live in LA and am a Clipper fan (primarily) AND a Laker fan (second.)
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#68 » by 21 TD » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:13 pm

Wrong thread.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#69 » by lamscott » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:28 pm

The "You guys only hated him because he was a Laker is extremely true"

Numerous arguments were made that despite his "numbers" he would make the leap because of other factors. We said that about Lonzo and DLO too.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#70 » by Darth Celtic » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:32 pm

AussieRules wrote:Watching him destroy the suns right now both offensively and defensively. Even with Jrue Holiday on the floor, he’s become the Pels go to player and closer. He has 14 points in the 4th quarter so far and counting.
28pts/8rebs/5asts shooting 3-6 from beyond the arc with 2blks, 1stl and a game high +22 against a very good suns team.

The HumbleBeast is about to get paid!

Everytime i watch him play the last 2 years i'm like "they would have won if he wasn't on the court", yet every time I look at the box score afterwards and go "huh, how in the world".

I think he's that example of a player who does stuff, a bunch of it, but for some reason doesn't contribute to winning. But I have been wrong before.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#71 » by Catchall » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:33 pm

He's better than Wiggins. So there's that.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#72 » by kan_t » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:49 pm

getitdone323 wrote:
NOP didnt even give him an offer, i hope he tells Griffin to go **** himself


Get your bag BI, you deserve it.

I think it's mutual agreement between both parties that no extension was discussed. Considered what he came back from, both sides were uncomfortable to exchange figures at that stage knowing that one wouldn't take huge discount and one wouldn't give him a max.

It works out perfectly for both parties so far.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#73 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:57 pm

kan_t wrote:
getitdone323 wrote:
NOP didnt even give him an offer, i hope he tells Griffin to go **** himself


Get your bag BI, you deserve it.

I think it's mutual agreement between both parties that no extension was discussed. Considered what he came back from, both sides were uncomfortable to exchange figures at that stage knowing that one wouldn't take huge discount and one wouldn't give him a max.

It works out perfectly for both parties so far.


Ya I think both parties both understood each others point of views on this going into the season. Ingram hadn't proven himself on a consistent basis yet and was dealing with a major injury. So I think he understood he probably wasn't in position to ask for a max. Griffin probably knew Ingram wanted to be a max guy. So I think both parties understood this was a prove it year.

Now I do think a major fracture could occur if Ingram plays at a high level all year, then Griffin lets Ingram go out and get max offers from other teams for Griffin to match it. If Ingram keeps his level of play high all year, Griffin better be there waiting to make it official right when FA opens that Ingram signs the 5/170.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#74 » by kan_t » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:57 pm

MemphisX wrote:The best thing that happened to BI was when the Lakers forced him to play PG.

The best thing what happened to him was that now Gentry has simplified his role. He has shown sign what he could do more than just scoring when the Lakers forced him to play PG but I don't think he's ready (not that it's his fault considering how young he's). It hurt his confidence. Now it seems he has got back that confidence and is a lot more decisive.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#75 » by yanuary » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:08 pm

I have to say it. In my opinion, he is the greatest (the same class as Doncić) talent of the young generation. The most desirable type of player in the NBA - two-way wingman, able to play with and without the ball. He lost many months of training due to injuries, and only Durant, Giannis (here both were comparable to Ingram) and LeBron (when we talk about point forwards, seriously Siakam or Butler averaged 3-4 points per game when they were 22...) were better than him at the age of 22. And I read posts here that he doesn't deserve a maximum contract? I even skip what the free agent class looks like in 2020. Are you people nuts?
#13 » by yanuary » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 am

In 2025 somewhere we will see topic "worst trades in Lakers history" and this would be #1.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#76 » by Zenzibar » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:25 pm

kan_t wrote:
MemphisX wrote:The best thing that happened to BI was when the Lakers forced him to play PG.

The best thing what happened to him was that now Gentry has simplified his role. He has shown sign what he could do more than just scoring when the Lakers forced him to play PG but I don't think he's ready (not that it's his fault considering how young he's). It hurt his confidence. Now it seems he has got back that confidence and is a lot more decisive.


My take is that the Pels are holding down the 10th spot in the West and without their best player. This is largely due to Ingram's breakout start to the season.
(Btw, the West is considerably weaker, with the Warriors tanking and the Blazers playing under par).

The Pels only have the Kings and Suns ahead of them for that 8th spot, but neither have a talent like Zion looming.
If the Pelicans make ANY type of noise in the standings, Ingram's getting paid.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#77 » by TheDoors24 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:27 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:A couple things to just put out their. One, Brandon Ingram has a net positive plus minus for the month of November, and has been a net positive on plus minus since after the first four games.

Secondly, I readily admit I was wrong about Ingram but at some point Lakers fans have to get over this idea that people hatred him becuase he was a Laker. The dude has taken a leap, plain and simple. Magic fans and OKC fans didn’t get all over the boards saying that Victor Oladipo was unfairly called a bum and the only reason he didn’t get shine was becuase of the team he was on.

Folks realized he took a largely unexpected leap.

Now I know that Lakers fans keep saying Ingram was balling to end the season last year, and he was but the player we are seeing right now is a different player than that guy.

When you look at Ingram’s game there is one glaring change. Yeah he’s seen a gradual uptick in his overall fg % which is not surprising. He’s parlayed more 4, so there’s a bump in his rebounding and blocking numbers. His free throw rate is about the same. The big difference and the thing people couldn’t foresee was that he has TRIPLED the amount of threes he is taking while IMPROVING his three point percentage by over 30 percent. That’s crazy. I don’t think anyone was expecting that and if you were specifically projecting that kind of growth, I’d love to see it.

The Pels issues with Ingram and to some extent Lonzo, were about his unwillingness and inability to consistently space the floor without the ball in his hands. That made it hard to see him as a good complimentary player to a guy like Zion who would benefit from an empty paint. (PS Lonzo’s 3 point shooting has also greatly improved. Disregard the overall numbers and focus on his catch and shoot, it has been a huge improvement).

Pels fans preferred Tatum because his game seemed to fit better as a complimentary 2nd option. Remember we weren’t looking for our “guy” we already had that with Zion, and to a lesser extent with Jrue. Anybody we added was supposed to compliment the pieces we already had. We didn’t need a first option and the thinking was we didn’t need another ball dominant player. Tatum, seemed more comfortable contributing without the ball in his hands, spaced the floor much better and the other aspects of his game seemed more polished. He was a better rebounder, he collected more blocks and steals, he seemed to be a better team defender, etc. Thats the stuff you look for on your 2nd/3rd guy. Ingram had more of the profile of s guy who could produce but needed the ball in his hands in order to do so. We didn’t really need that.

One of the things that Lakers fans have been spot on about though in regards to the comparison is that Ingram has demonstrated a capacity to go off that Tatum has never shown. Tatum is consistently good but Ingram has games in past years where he looked unstoppable. Sometimes you see that as a sign of inconsistency but it can also be a sign of a higher ceiling.

So in short, I and many other Pels fans were wrong, but Ingram’s bump, at least in the way that it has happened, was unlikely I’ve never been so happy to be wrong about a basketball opinion.

Pels are going to max him, and they will smile while they do it.


Actually Lakers fans have championed Ingram cause we have seen him string together games where he's playing at an allstar level only to be struck down by injuries.

The talent has been there since college. He shot 40% in college from 3 and nearly 40% in his second year. Low usage sure but you could see he had the tools and since Lakers fans saw him day in and day out then sure they would argue against people who rarely saw him or just stat watched.

The reason ingram was held back last year was cause he needs the ball in his hand and well good luck with James on your team.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#78 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:02 am

I mentioned this earlier but wanted to do a deeper dive into it. So to start the season the comeback to Ingram's numbers were they were empty stats on a losing team and its clear he doesn't help his team win by looking at his +/- and On/Off. I just want to take a look at those first 8 games when they started 1-7 and people were saying you cant win with Ingram being the guy.

First 8 games:
Ingram: 26/7/4 on 62 TS% and 59 eFG% with a -8 +/-

Holiday: 14/5/6 on 46 TS% and 44 eFG% with a -11 +/-
Redick: 9/1/1 on 55 TS% and 53 eFG% with a -9 +/-

Last 7 games:
Ingram: 24.5/8/4.5 on 60 TS% and 56 eFG% with a +12 +/- (only played 3 games)

Holiday: 21/5/8 on 52 TS% and 48 eFG% with a +1 +/-
Redick: 22/3/2 on 71 TS% and 68 eFG% with a +7 +/-

All of a sudden Ingram is playing team winning basketball? This is the problem with using stuff like +/- and On/Off with such a small sample size. Ingram isn't playing any differently now since the Pels started winning, even though his +/- and On/Off have drastically improved. Its the fact that the vets on his team who he plays huge minutes with are no longer stinking up the joint and finally playing to the level people expected.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#79 » by Pennebaker » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:31 am

AussieRules wrote:Watching him destroy the suns right now both offensively and defensively. Even with Jrue Holiday on the floor, he’s become the Pels go to player and closer. He has 14 points in the 4th quarter

so far and counting.
28pts/8rebs/5asts shooting 3-6 from beyond the arc with 2blks, 1stl and a game high +22 against a very good suns team.

The HumbleBeast is about to get paid!


He was doing that last year on the Lakers and they still said no thanks.
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Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#80 » by madmaxmedia » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:34 am

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:
Rastas wrote:Probably not max due to his health history , but between 20 to 25 mill a year is about right .


20 million is what Michael Jordan pays guys who just **** the bed for an entire nba season.


Yeah but they are healthy.

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