Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP

Moderators: bwgood77, ken6199, Dirk, Domejandro, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus, Goudelock, Prez

Patsfan1081
General Manager
Posts: 8,266
And1: 3,171
Joined: Jan 06, 2015

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#81 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:48 am

getitdone323 wrote:Countless people on this site, neckbeard twitter, and excel sheet twitter told me that Ingram was not a good player and he was tiers below Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. I wish i bookmarked some of the pages, but one guy literally wrote an essay using BI's metrics to show that he will amount to a below average to average player. These same people would laugh at us lakers fans when we kept telling you he would be good, but all that mattered was his advanced stats VORP, PER, etc

He can score at all 3 levels efficiently now, be a playmaker/ even run your offense, and still play solid defense when has to (dropped a bit this season, but in a new system)


...but if he was still laker, people will find anything to dismiss his success.


NOP didnt even give him an offer, i hope he tells Griffin to go **** himself


Get your bag BI, you deserve it.


No, stats said he wasn't as good of a prospect, and it was just advanced like Vorp or ws. He had a negative rpm every season he was in L.A. Has he even played a dozen games yet? Is this supposed to wash away the 50x sample size?
Patsfan1081
General Manager
Posts: 8,266
And1: 3,171
Joined: Jan 06, 2015

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#82 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:51 am

Duke4life831 wrote:My Duke bias cherry picked stats of the day.

Between Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Murray and Siakam (big names of the 2016 draft). For this season Ingram ranks

#1 in PPG
#2 in RPG
#3 in APG
#1 in FTA
#1 in FG%
#1 in TS%
#1 in eFG%
#1 in PER

I will not hear any arguments about sample size and other stats that poke holes in this argument. Ingram is the best player from the 2016 draft, I will listen to nothing else.



Outside of Hield he's also the only one on a lottery team(alongside being a first option).
Duke4life831
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 21,706
And1: 34,367
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
   

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#83 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:58 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:My Duke bias cherry picked stats of the day.

Between Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Murray and Siakam (big names of the 2016 draft). For this season Ingram ranks

#1 in PPG
#2 in RPG
#3 in APG
#1 in FTA
#1 in FG%
#1 in TS%
#1 in eFG%
#1 in PER

I will not hear any arguments about sample size and other stats that poke holes in this argument. Ingram is the best player from the 2016 draft, I will listen to nothing else.



Outside of Hield he's also the only one on a lottery team(alongside being a first option).


He's also playing alongside the least amount of talent by a significant margin.

Simmons: Embiid and Horford
Brown: Tatum and Kemba
Murray: Jokic
Siakam: super deep team

I mean Ingram has Holiday who is averaging 18/5/7 on 49 TS% and 46 eFG%. Not really what I would say an even comparison there.
User avatar
NoDopeOnSundays
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,401
And1: 8,854
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
         

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#84 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:58 am

If they don't want to max him he'd look great with RJ.
jfs1000d
RealGM
Posts: 21,632
And1: 8,708
Joined: Jun 25, 2004

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#85 » by jfs1000d » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:54 am

I killed him and think Jaylen Brown is better. But he looks like he found his stride in New Orleans. He was beyond awful year 1, and has improved immensely. Good for him.

Heat not get a max, it he should get Jaylen brown money or more if he has an entire season like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dantheman74
Senior
Posts: 684
And1: 287
Joined: Jul 22, 2016
Location: Aotearoa
 

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#86 » by dantheman74 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:41 am

I like his effort but damn he's so thin, if he played hard against my team someone would body him before long and break him, he needs to acept his niche and not try overachieve, get his money and retire young. Kids had bloodclots?? .. and still expected to drive the lane..
User avatar
azcatz11
Head Coach
Posts: 7,441
And1: 8,515
Joined: Apr 13, 2017
Location: Phoenix

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#87 » by azcatz11 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:52 am

AussieRules wrote:Watching him destroy the suns right now both offensively and defensively. Even with Jrue Holiday on the floor, he’s become the Pels go to player and closer. He has 14 points in the 4th quarter so far and counting.
28pts/8rebs/5asts shooting 3-6 from beyond the arc with 2blks, 1stl and a game high +22 against a very good suns team.

The HumbleBeast is about to get paid!


You suck
spikeslovechild
General Manager
Posts: 7,998
And1: 3,911
Joined: Dec 16, 2013
Location: Right here waiting for you

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#88 » by spikeslovechild » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:16 am

He is easy a max guy with the way he is playing. There is still a ton of potential there too.

So yeah it's an easy decision if he continues his level of play towards the end of the year.
LeFraud: I have this platform, and I'm somebody that has a voice of command, and the only way for us to get better as a society and for us to get better as people is love. And that's the only way we're going to be able to conquer something as one.
lordjeff05
Starter
Posts: 2,429
And1: 580
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#89 » by lordjeff05 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:30 am

TheDoors24 wrote:
Actually Lakers fans have championed Ingram cause we have seen him string together games where he's playing at an allstar level only to be struck down by injuries.

The talent has been there since college. He shot 40% in college from 3 and nearly 40% in his second year. Low usage sure but you could see he had the tools and since Lakers fans saw him day in and day out then sure they would argue against people who rarely saw him or just stat watched.

The reason ingram was held back last year was cause he needs the ball in his hand and well good luck with James on your team.


Ya see, here’s the problem and frankly where some of the frustration lies. A lot of Lakers fans keep saying “we saw this coming because we’ve seen his games” or “this is just an extension of what he was doing last year, he was already in the process of making the leap” and all of that stuff is not true.

He’s not ever had a single 3 game stretch where he shot as many 3s per game in his entire career as he has in any 3 game stretch from this year. That’s crazy.

Even when BI was killing it last year he wasn’t taking the same rate of catch and shoot 3s. Guys rarely triple the amount of 3 point shots they shoot while also increasing their percentages significantly.

That’s why the argument about fit doesn’t really make sense. Bron would not have negatively affected his catch and shoot opportunities. if anything Bron should have been getting more of that shot off of drive and kicks.

Again, the main argument from many folks who were making good faith arguments about the concerns about his fit and not just mad, was that he could only affect the game when he had the ball in his hands. That’s not true anymore and that’s what is different. He isn’t just carrying over a hot streak from last year.

I think the overall argument from people who believed in BI was that given a role as “the guy” he would be able to take a jump. But his game isn’t predicated on being the sole shot creator/ scoring option. He is running fewer pick and rolls and dribbling less per shot. If this were simply just that he’s getting featured more in the offense then you would probably see those numbers flipped.

Again the end result is good regardless but it is especially good because this style can work with
Other stars and Zion will likely be a star.
lamscott
Veteran
Posts: 2,693
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
 

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#90 » by lamscott » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:36 am

lordjeff05 wrote:
TheDoors24 wrote:
Actually Lakers fans have championed Ingram cause we have seen him string together games where he's playing at an allstar level only to be struck down by injuries.

The talent has been there since college. He shot 40% in college from 3 and nearly 40% in his second year. Low usage sure but you could see he had the tools and since Lakers fans saw him day in and day out then sure they would argue against people who rarely saw him or just stat watched.

The reason ingram was held back last year was cause he needs the ball in his hand and well good luck with James on your team.


Ya see, here’s the problem and frankly where some of the frustration lies. A lot of Lakers fans keep saying “we saw this coming because we’ve seen his games” or “this is just an extension of what he was doing last year, he was already in the process of making the leap” and all of that stuff is not true.

He’s not ever had a single 3 game stretch where he shot as many 3s per game in his entire career as he has in any 3 game stretch from this year. That’s crazy.

Even when BI was killing it last year he wasn’t taking the same rate of catch and shoot 3s. Guys rarely triple the amount of 3 point shots they shoot while also increasing their percentages significantly.

That’s why the argument about fit doesn’t really make sense. Bron would not have negatively affected his catch and shoot opportunities. if anything Bron should have been getting more of that shot off of drive and kicks.

Again, the main argument from many folks who were making good faith arguments about the concerns about his fit and not just mad, was that he could only affect the game when he had the ball in his hands. That’s not true anymore and that’s what is different. He isn’t just carrying over a hot streak from last year.

I think the overall argument from people who believed in BI was that given a role as “the guy” he would be able to take a jump. But his game isn’t predicated on being the sole shot creator/ scoring option. He is running fewer pick and rolls and dribbling less per shot. If this were simply just that he’s getting featured more in the offense then you would probably see those numbers flipped.

Again the end result is good regardless but it is especially good because this style can work with
Other stars and Zion will likely be a star.



This argument makes no sense.

None of you haters listened to Laker fans. Forget about the crap stats. We kept telling you guys he was good. If this argument was right Kobe, Dirk, Nash, .... in their first two years also sucked. And don't focus on the examples I gave. Focus on the argument. His stats? We watched with our eyes. We told all of you he was going to be good. Now he is. Just eat crow and enjoy him.
lordjeff05
Starter
Posts: 2,429
And1: 580
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#91 » by lordjeff05 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:08 pm

lamscott wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:
TheDoors24 wrote:
Actually Lakers fans have championed Ingram cause we have seen him string together games where he's playing at an allstar level only to be struck down by injuries.

The talent has been there since college. He shot 40% in college from 3 and nearly 40% in his second year. Low usage sure but you could see he had the tools and since Lakers fans saw him day in and day out then sure they would argue against people who rarely saw him or just stat watched.

The reason ingram was held back last year was cause he needs the ball in his hand and well good luck with James on your team.


Ya see, here’s the problem and frankly where some of the frustration lies. A lot of Lakers fans keep saying “we saw this coming because we’ve seen his games” or “this is just an extension of what he was doing last year, he was already in the process of making the leap” and all of that stuff is not true.

He’s not ever had a single 3 game stretch where he shot as many 3s per game in his entire career as he has in any 3 game stretch from this year. That’s crazy.

Even when BI was killing it last year he wasn’t taking the same rate of catch and shoot 3s. Guys rarely triple the amount of 3 point shots they shoot while also increasing their percentages significantly.

That’s why the argument about fit doesn’t really make sense. Bron would not have negatively affected his catch and shoot opportunities. if anything Bron should have been getting more of that shot off of drive and kicks.

Again, the main argument from many folks who were making good faith arguments about the concerns about his fit and not just mad, was that he could only affect the game when he had the ball in his hands. That’s not true anymore and that’s what is different. He isn’t just carrying over a hot streak from last year.

I think the overall argument from people who believed in BI was that given a role as “the guy” he would be able to take a jump. But his game isn’t predicated on being the sole shot creator/ scoring option. He is running fewer pick and rolls and dribbling less per shot. If this were simply just that he’s getting featured more in the offense then you would probably see those numbers flipped.

Again the end result is good regardless but it is especially good because this style can work with
Other stars and Zion will likely be a star.



This argument makes no sense.

None of you haters listened to Laker fans. Forget about the crap stats. We kept telling you guys he was good. If this argument was right Kobe, Dirk, Nash, .... in their first two years also sucked. And don't focus on the examples I gave. Focus on the argument. His stats? We watched with our eyes. We told all of you he was going to be good. Now he is. Just eat crow and enjoy him.


What about my argument makes no sense? Spell it out for me. Your point seems to be, we told you he was good, but you didn’t listen to us because you hate the Lakers, which is silly.

One player in the history of the nba has had a similar free throw percentage and then upped his rate of 3s this much. Just one dude in nba history. It wasn’t a good bet to make that this would occur. I’m happy it did but it wasn’t likely.

A more likely scenario was that Ingram would blow up because his usage would increase but his shot profile would stay the same.This is kind of what happened with Julius Randle last year. He shot the same type of shots, he just shot more of them and shot them more efficiently. That player would not have been as useful to the team long term as a second option.

BI’s situation is different. Go look at any player that took the leap, and you won’t see a similar profile.

I mention all of this, not because I have any interest in going back and forth with Lakers fans but instead because it underscores his value and is part of the argument about why he is easily a max player.

BI is now scoring a lot of points, efficiently, in a variety of ways, including when not on ball. That’s different than what he has shown in the past but it’s also what makes him a max player.
timO
Rookie
Posts: 1,004
And1: 569
Joined: Jul 03, 2018
   

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#92 » by timO » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Right now yes to both, but his %s seems unrealistic to sustain all RS.
lordjeff05
Starter
Posts: 2,429
And1: 580
Joined: Mar 01, 2010

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#93 » by lordjeff05 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:25 pm

timO wrote:Right now yes to both, but his %s seems unrealistic to sustain all RS.


The percentages are unsustainable but as long as he keeps that shot profile I am good. The reputation of a shooter is as important as his actual success. BI is building that rep as we speak and it is going to pay dividends for the team all year.

What no one is talking about, but what is almost as important long term, is that Lonzo has also significantly improved his catch and shoot 3 game, which is also huge for the team if we keep him. Again it increases his value.
Mulhollanddrive
General Manager
Posts: 7,645
And1: 5,039
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#94 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:28 pm

11 games.

Brandon Knight was almost an All-Star after 40 games.
User avatar
OdomFan
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,547
And1: 4,108
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
Location: Washington DC
       

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#95 » by OdomFan » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:32 pm

One step at a time. I think he should get MIP, then earn the Max later on as he keeps working hard throughout the rest of his current contract.
Image
John Murdoch
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,253
And1: 3,795
Joined: Sep 16, 2013
         

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#96 » by John Murdoch » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:28 pm

I wish griffin was dumb enough to take Kuzma over Brandon . Spurs lol , prob set them back 5 years not taking him in that offer
Blackification wrote:I **** hate that crackhead corey brewer
Bum Adebayo
Analyst
Posts: 3,484
And1: 1,367
Joined: Apr 28, 2016
 

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#97 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:37 pm

Sixers should've picked him instead of Simmons...
GreatWhiteStiff
General Manager
Posts: 9,002
And1: 7,078
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Location: #EmbraceTheTreadmill
 

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#98 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Sixers should've picked him instead of Simmons...


They also should've traded the #1 in 2016 for the 14th overall in the 2017 nba draft.
"Yes because he completely turned around a disastrous 5-12 team and helped them in every facet of the game. If Melo keeps it up, he is legit MVP candidate."

-EricMillegan
R-DAWG
RealGM
Posts: 14,996
And1: 3,311
Joined: Nov 07, 2003

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#99 » by R-DAWG » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:44 pm

The real issue with Ingram is he needs the ball to be effective. He was not great next to Lebron, whereas a guy like Kuzma is much better in the off the ball, make quick decisions/shots roll.

Ingram has been excellent, and will get a max contract from someone. But he's not a fit on every roster.
Duke4life831
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 21,706
And1: 34,367
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
   

Re: Is Brandon Ingram a max player and the MIP 

Post#100 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:15 pm

R-DAWG wrote:The real issue with Ingram is he needs the ball to be effective. He was not great next to Lebron, whereas a guy like Kuzma is much better in the off the ball, make quick decisions/shots roll.

Ingram has been excellent, and will get a max contract from someone. But he's not a fit on every roster.


I agree with this. He was a terrible fit alongside LeBron and the Lakers last year because he and Lonzo had to fight for who would be the 3rd ball handler behind LeBron and Rondo. I think most teams can have 2 ball dominant players (look at LeBron with Miami or LeBron with Kyrie, Curry and KD), but you cant have 3.

If you look at the Pels this year, Ingram hasn't been the #1 ball handler, he's been the #2 guy behind Jrue. Jrue on average takes up 5.7 seconds per possession while Ingram takes up 3.4 seconds. I actually think this was a big issue with the Pels offense to start the year because you had 3 guys that need to be at minimum the #2 ball handler with Lonzo/Ingram/Jrue, all out there on the court together and it was kind of a mess. With some of the injuries we have seen Jrue become the main ball handler and Ingram the #2 guy with no Ball out there. Both guys have been clicking in this situation.

So I agree 100% that Kuzma is the far better fit alongside LeBron/AD because Ingram loses a ton of value as the #3 guy. If you want Ingram to be effective, he at minimum needs to be your #2 ball handler.

Return to The General Board