MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

Moderators: Dirk, Domejandro, bwgood77, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus, PockyCandy, Prez, Yuri Vaultin, ken6199

Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?

Giannis
143
68%
James
15
7%
Leonard
2
1%
Doncic
15
7%
Butler
3
1%
Davis
2
1%
Harden
5
2%
Jokic
14
7%
Lillard
11
5%
Gobert
1
0%
 
Total votes: 211

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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#721 » by RB34 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:27 am

mediocrityrules wrote:Good chance Bucks lose to the Pacers today without Giannis. Would that loss immediately boost his mvp considerations?!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums


Judging by this thread it would more than double his chances!
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#722 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:40 am

The Bucks are inexplicably good, like when I look at their roster on paper it doesn't make sense to me, even when Giannis is out they are GOOD.

That doesn't take away from how dominant and consistent he is on both ends, and on the glass. Megastar. Barring an epic collapse, he deserves an easy second MVP.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#723 » by Colbinii » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:49 am

scrabbarista wrote:snip


Can you post your top 20?
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#724 » by scrabbarista » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:52 am

Colbinii wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:snip


Can you post your top 20?


I'll do it Friday, as like an All-Star Break thing. If I forget (and only do ten), remind me, and I will. But I'll still probably stick to Top Ten until the season's over. The formula is just supposed to give a winner, after all.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#725 » by Colbinii » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:58 am

scrabbarista wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:snip


Can you post your top 20?


I'll do it Friday, as like an All-Star Break thing. If I forget (and only do ten), remind me, and I will. But I'll still probably stick to Top Ten until the season's over. The formula is just supposed to give a winner, after all.


Well I made a top 20 list with tiers over on the PC Board [admittedly off the top of my head] and I was curious how yours looked comparatively. It's in the 2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread over there [2nd page].

Appreciate it nonetheless.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#726 » by scrabbarista » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:04 am

Colbinii wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Can you post your top 20?


I'll do it Friday, as like an All-Star Break thing. If I forget (and only do ten), remind me, and I will. But I'll still probably stick to Top Ten until the season's over. The formula is just supposed to give a winner, after all.


Well I made a top 20 list with tiers over on the PC Board [admittedly off the top of my head] and I was curious how yours looked comparatively. It's in the 2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread over there [2nd page].

Appreciate it nonetheless.


Sounds cool. Mine's only current as of last Thursday morning, or I'd post now. Will do Friday morning, for sure. It's probably very different than yours in a few spots, especially between 15 and 20. If I did a top twenty off the top of my head, it'd probably be just as different from my MVP list in that range.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#727 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:09 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:i wouldn't even know who to give it to if I couldn't pick Giannis, that's how one sided this race is.


I was thinking the same thing. There were points where I thought Harden was a clear 2nd, others when Lebron was. Never thought Luka or Siakam were at that level plus the games missed are adding up. Each of them have barely played more than Kawhi. AD should have never been a serious candidate despite the Laker hype machine.

It should be unanimous this year for Giannis. And I hate the argument against him being his teammates are playing well. That's an argument in his favor that his teammates can succeed around him. Especially when the same posters use that against him they use the exact opposite against Lebron or Harden.


:roll: Luka has been at that level when healthy.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#728 » by scrabbarista » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:15 am

scrabbarista wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
I'll do it Friday, as like an All-Star Break thing. If I forget (and only do ten), remind me, and I will. But I'll still probably stick to Top Ten until the season's over. The formula is just supposed to give a winner, after all.


Well I made a top 20 list with tiers over on the PC Board [admittedly off the top of my head] and I was curious how yours looked comparatively. It's in the 2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread over there [2nd page].

Appreciate it nonetheless.


Sounds cool. Mine's only current as of last Thursday morning, or I'd post now. Will do Friday morning, for sure. It's probably very different than yours in a few spots, especially between 15 and 20. If I did a top twenty off the top of my head, it'd probably be just as different from my MVP list in that range.


Checked out your list. Very good. The +/- aspect of mine would be tougher on Graham, Westbrook, and, I think, Lowry, but otherwise I was surprised how close it was to my rankings as of last week.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#729 » by JN61 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:41 am

greekbuck34 wrote:
C0bR wrote:Bucks are now 5-0 without Giannis with an average margin of victory being 17 points

They are the best team in basketball irrespective of him playing or not

Giannis has now slipped fully out of contention


The Clippers without Kawhi and PG put a good fight against he best team in basketball.
The Clippers with Kawhi and PG got 40 balled.
The Mavs without Luka beat the best team in basketball.
The Nuggets with Jokic a no factor and other injuries beat the best team in basketball.
The Miami Heat without Butler beat the best team in basketball.
The Lakers without Lebron and AD destroyed the thunder.
The Rockets without Harden and Westbrook destroyed Utah.

I think we have to agree that the teams are much better without their superstars.
Especially with the Bucks beating 5 lottery teams without Giannis.

Selection size and not taking team seriously in case of Clippers and Mavs etc. However Bucks have big enough selection size to determine they are very good team without Giannis. Probably 4-5th seed in playoffs. Why always so defensive if someone praises his teammates...?
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#730 » by JN61 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:45 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
C0bR wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:Giannis plays over six (!) freaking minutes less per game than Harden. So if you look at per 100 possessions or per36min, he even outscores Harden...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id2_select=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&y2=2020&player_id2=antetgi01&idx=players

There isnt a discussion anymore who is MVP...

Giannis only plays 30 minutes per game because his team is excellent without him on the floor which allows him to play much harder during his 30 minutes and stuff 36-40 minutes-tier production into them

He is essentially playing 40 minutes a game masquerading as 30 and his production should be taken as such


His meteoric usage rate agrees with you. If he had a worse team around him I guarantee you he would be pacing himself more for a larger workload.

This will be two years in a row where he has a 50-40-90 teammate and I really don’t think his teammates get enough credit

Exactly. One of the best players in eastern conference gets constantly downplayed for some odd reason in order to buff their favourite player. When there is absolutely no need for it... We all know Giannis is clear cut MVP at this point.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#731 » by buckboy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:59 pm

C0bR wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:Giannis plays over six (!) freaking minutes less per game than Harden. So if you look at per 100 possessions or per36min, he even outscores Harden...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id2_select=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&y2=2020&player_id2=antetgi01&idx=players

There isnt a discussion anymore who is MVP...

Giannis only plays 30 minutes per game because his team is excellent without him on the floor which allows him to play much harder during his 30 minutes and stuff 36-40 minutes-tier production into them

He is essentially playing 40 minutes a game masquerading as 30 and his production should be taken as such


Nevermind. I'm not getting sucked into this stupidity.
"lol Bucks fans saying the bucks are getting fouled every possession. Are you guys watching Giannis? He literally fouls on every drive."

-ajones9219, a Celtic fan who may or may not be prone to hyperbole
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#732 » by Packbuckman » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:06 pm

Siefer wrote:
C0bR wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:Giannis plays over six (!) freaking minutes less per game than Harden. So if you look at per 100 possessions or per36min, he even outscores Harden...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id2_select=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&y2=2020&player_id2=antetgi01&idx=players

There isnt a discussion anymore who is MVP...

Giannis only plays 30 minutes per game because his team is excellent without him on the floor which allows him to play much harder during his 30 minutes and stuff 36-40 minutes-tier production into them

He is essentially playing 40 minutes a game masquerading as 30 and his production should be taken as such


You might be on to something. We can apply a new metric, Player Effort Normalized Isolated Statistics, to everyone to understand their real impact. For example, Whiteside puts about 5 minutes worth of effort into his 31 minutes, so really, he'd be averaging 97.34 points, 87.42 rebounds, and 19.2 blocks per game if he really wanted to!


:lol: :lol: Now that was dome funny **** there!!
What’s even funnier is some people will believe this probably the 2 guys that posted above you lol
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#733 » by Green89 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:40 am

Poll isn't aging well with Tatum not in it.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#734 » by GSP » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:43 am

Green89 wrote:Poll isn't aging well with Tatum not in it.


I dont even know how Davis is still an option. Its very obvious that he isnt even the most valuable player on his team and its been that way all season
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#735 » by The_Brecht » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:52 pm

GSP wrote:
Green89 wrote:Poll isn't aging well with Tatum not in it.


I dont even know how Davis is still an option. Its very obvious that he isnt even the most valuable player on his team and its been that way all season


If we're going that way, only Giannis and Lebron should really be the options.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#736 » by scrabbarista » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:37 pm

as of the morning of February 14th

The spreadsheet now includes 61 players. Apologies to Kelly Oubre and OG Anunoby - and probably at least a dozen others. As always, it's an honor just to be nominated.

Now that Wiggins and Drummond have been traded, the New York Knicks are the only team without a player on the spreadsheet (GSW and CLE were previously unrepresented). And yes, Wiggins is in 61st. :D

Since last week:

TOP 5 RISERS
1. Russell Westbrook +1.13 [team record 2-2]
2. James Harden +1.06 [2-2]
3. Anthony Davis +1.02 [3-1]
4. Kristaps Porzingis +1.02 [2-2]
5. Chris Paul +0.98 [2-2]

FALLERS
1. Kawhi Leonard -0.75 [team record 1-3]
2. Bam Adebayo -0.60 [1-3]
3. Dennis Schroeder -0.60 [2-2]
4. Derrick Rose -0.49 [0-4]
5. Jimmy Butler -0.37 [1-3]

James Harden joins the RISERS for the second straight week after being in the FALLERS the week before.
Antetokounmpo and Beal tie for the next (6th/7th) spot among the RISERS.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOP TWENTY

1. 16.6 Antetokounmpo, MIL [since last week: even] [+0.87]
2. 15.4 Harden, HOU [+2] [+1.06]
3. 15.1 James, LAL [-1] [-0.03]
4. 14.9 Gobert, UTA [-1] [+0.27]
5. 13.4 Lillard, POR [even] [+0.12]

6. 13.0 Jokic, DEN [+1] [+0.27]
7. 12.3 Leonard, LAC [-1] [-0.75]
8. 12.2 Doncic, DAL [+1] [+0.68]
9. 11.7 Paul, OKC [+2] [+0.98]
10. 11.6 Butler, MIA [-2] [-0.37]

11. 11.2 Davis, LAL [+3] [+1.02]
12. 11.2 Middleton, MIL [+1] [+0.65]
13. 10.9 Tatum, BOS [-1] [+0.31]
14. 10.5 Adebayo, MIA [-5] [-0.60]
15. 9.6 Sabonis, IND [even] [+0.12]

16. 9.5 Simmons, PHI [+4] [+0.72]
17. 9.4 Bledsoe, MIL [even] [+0.23]
18. 9.3 Whiteside, POR [even] [+0.27]
19. 9.2 Bogdanovic, UTA [-3] [-0.03]
20. 9.2 Millsap, DEN [+5] [+0.87]

I decided to post the Top Twenty for All-Star Weekend. Back to a Top Ten next week [EDIT: in two weeks]. Remember, these are not supposed to be the "top twenty players." This formula is designed to give a top five MVP ballot over 82 games - or even just a top one. It does a very good job of that, in my humble opinion. Anything else it does - however well or badly - is just a curiosity.

Giannis Antetokounmpo's lead seems to be growing steadily on the merit of his consistency while the players behind him rise and fall from week to week and month to month. It would take something very unexpected for Antetokounmpo not to win, but with (slightly!) more than a third of the season left to play, the race is far from over.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zion Watch: 7.18 Williamson, NOP [+13] [+1.43]

Fun Facts: Zion's TS% is .620, his PER is 25.4, and his USG% is 30.9
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#737 » by Packbuckman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:44 pm

scrabbarista wrote:as of the morning of February 14th

The spreadsheet now includes 61 players. Apologies to Kelly Oubre and OG Anunoby - and probably at least a dozen others. As always, it's an honor just to be nominated.

Now that Wiggins and Drummond have been traded, the New York Knicks are the only team without a player on the spreadsheet (GSW and CLE were previously unrepresented). And yes, Wiggins is in 61st. :D

Since last week:

TOP 5 RISERS
1. Russell Westbrook +1.13 [team record 2-2]
2. James Harden +1.06 [2-2]
3. Anthony Davis +1.02 [3-1]
4. Kristaps Porzingis +1.02 [2-2]
5. Chris Paul +0.98 [2-2]

FALLERS
1. Kawhi Leonard -0.75 [team record 1-3]
2. Bam Adebayo -0.60 [1-3]
3. Dennis Schroeder -0.60 [2-2]
4. Derrick Rose -0.49 [0-4]
5. Jimmy Butler -0.37 [1-3]

James Harden joins the RISERS for the second straight week after being in the FALLERS the week before.
Antetokounmpo and Beal tie for the next (6th/7th) spot among the RISERS.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOP TWENTY

1. 16.6 Antetokounmpo, MIL [since last week: even] [+0.87]
2. 15.4 Harden, HOU [+2] [+1.06]
3. 15.1 James, LAL [-1] [-0.03]
4. 14.9 Gobert, UTA [-1] [+0.27]
5. 13.4 Lillard, POR [even] [+0.12]

6. 13.0 Jokic, DEN [+1] [+0.27]
7. 12.3 Leonard, LAC [-1] [-0.75]
8. 12.2 Doncic, DAL [+1] [+0.68]
9. 11.7 Paul, OKC [+2] [+0.98]
10. 11.6 Butler, MIA [-2] [-0.37]

11. 11.2 Davis, LAL [+3] [+1.02]
12. 11.2 Middleton, MIL [+1] [+0.65]
13. 10.9 Tatum, BOS [-1] [+0.31]
14. 10.5 Adebayo, MIA [-5] [-0.60]
15. 9.6 Sabonis, IND [even] [+0.12]

16. 9.5 Simmons, PHI [+4] [+0.72]
17. 9.4 Bledsoe, MIL [even] [+0.23]
18. 9.3 Whiteside, POR [even] [+0.27]
19. 9.2 Bogdanovic, UTA [-3] [-0.03]
20. 9.2 Millsap, DEN [+5] [+0.87]

I decided to post the Top Twenty for All-Star Weekend. Back to a Top Ten next week. Remember, these are not supposed to be the "top twenty players." This formula is designed to give a top five MVP ballot over 82 games - or even just a top one. It does a very good job of that, in my humble opinion. Anything else it does - however well or badly - is just a curiosity.

Giannis Antetokounmpo's lead seems to be growing steadily on the merit of his consistency while the players behind him rise and fall from week to week and month to month. It would take something very unexpected for Antetokounmpo not to win, but with (slightly!) more than a third of the season left to play, the race is far from over.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zion Watch: 7.18 Williamson, NOP [+13] [+1.43]

Fun Facts: Zion's TS% is .620, his PER is 25.4, and his USG% is 30.9


Dam the Bucks have 3 players in the top 20 who would of thunk lol
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#738 » by WRau1 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:04 am

C0bR wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:Giannis plays over six (!) freaking minutes less per game than Harden. So if you look at per 100 possessions or per36min, he even outscores Harden...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&player_id2_select=Giannis+Antetokounmpo&y2=2020&player_id2=antetgi01&idx=players

There isnt a discussion anymore who is MVP...

Giannis only plays 30 minutes per game because his team is excellent without him on the floor which allows him to play much harder during his 30 minutes and stuff 36-40 minutes-tier production into them

He is essentially playing 40 minutes a game masquerading as 30 and his production should be taken as such


This might be the dumbest thing I've seen on this site. Unless you're trolling, then I approve.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#739 » by scrabbarista » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:58 am

Packbuckman wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:as of the morning of February 14th

The spreadsheet now includes 61 players. Apologies to Kelly Oubre and OG Anunoby - and probably at least a dozen others. As always, it's an honor just to be nominated.

Now that Wiggins and Drummond have been traded, the New York Knicks are the only team without a player on the spreadsheet (GSW and CLE were previously unrepresented). And yes, Wiggins is in 61st. :D

Since last week:

TOP 5 RISERS
1. Russell Westbrook +1.13 [team record 2-2]
2. James Harden +1.06 [2-2]
3. Anthony Davis +1.02 [3-1]
4. Kristaps Porzingis +1.02 [2-2]
5. Chris Paul +0.98 [2-2]

FALLERS
1. Kawhi Leonard -0.75 [team record 1-3]
2. Bam Adebayo -0.60 [1-3]
3. Dennis Schroeder -0.60 [2-2]
4. Derrick Rose -0.49 [0-4]
5. Jimmy Butler -0.37 [1-3]

James Harden joins the RISERS for the second straight week after being in the FALLERS the week before.
Antetokounmpo and Beal tie for the next (6th/7th) spot among the RISERS.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOP TWENTY

1. 16.6 Antetokounmpo, MIL [since last week: even] [+0.87]
2. 15.4 Harden, HOU [+2] [+1.06]
3. 15.1 James, LAL [-1] [-0.03]
4. 14.9 Gobert, UTA [-1] [+0.27]
5. 13.4 Lillard, POR [even] [+0.12]

6. 13.0 Jokic, DEN [+1] [+0.27]
7. 12.3 Leonard, LAC [-1] [-0.75]
8. 12.2 Doncic, DAL [+1] [+0.68]
9. 11.7 Paul, OKC [+2] [+0.98]
10. 11.6 Butler, MIA [-2] [-0.37]

11. 11.2 Davis, LAL [+3] [+1.02]
12. 11.2 Middleton, MIL [+1] [+0.65]
13. 10.9 Tatum, BOS [-1] [+0.31]
14. 10.5 Adebayo, MIA [-5] [-0.60]
15. 9.6 Sabonis, IND [even] [+0.12]

16. 9.5 Simmons, PHI [+4] [+0.72]
17. 9.4 Bledsoe, MIL [even] [+0.23]
18. 9.3 Whiteside, POR [even] [+0.27]
19. 9.2 Bogdanovic, UTA [-3] [-0.03]
20. 9.2 Millsap, DEN [+5] [+0.87]

I decided to post the Top Twenty for All-Star Weekend. Back to a Top Ten next week. Remember, these are not supposed to be the "top twenty players." This formula is designed to give a top five MVP ballot over 82 games - or even just a top one. It does a very good job of that, in my humble opinion. Anything else it does - however well or badly - is just a curiosity.

Giannis Antetokounmpo's lead seems to be growing steadily on the merit of his consistency while the players behind him rise and fall from week to week and month to month. It would take something very unexpected for Antetokounmpo not to win, but with (slightly!) more than a third of the season left to play, the race is far from over.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zion Watch: 7.18 Williamson, NOP [+13] [+1.43]

Fun Facts: Zion's TS% is .620, his PER is 25.4, and his USG% is 30.9


Dam the Bucks have 3 players in the top 20 who would of thunk lol


MIL has the best point differential in history so far, and +/- is an important part of my formula, so... It does get a little less important as the season goes on and the WS and VORP add up, though, so it'll be interesting to see where all the Bucks finish at the end of the season.
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Re: MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened 

Post#740 » by antonac » Yesterday 9:57 am

Packbuckman wrote:

Dam the Bucks have 3 players in the top 20 who would of thunk lol


essentially what happened to the GSW best players on the back of Curry tearing up the league.

Look forward to 5 years time when everyone calls Giannis some undeserving scrub for playing on a stacked roster.

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