Kobe Bryant Discussion, Part Two

[MrGoat]

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At 1:55 they interview a helicopter pilot who has also flown Kobe before and he says that he never felt pressured by Kobe to fly in unsafe conditions. What was the pilot thinking?

[BillTheGOAT]

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At 1:55 they interview a helicopter pilot who has also flown Kobe before and he says that he never felt pressured by Kobe to fly in unsafe conditions. What was the pilot thinking?

The more information thats coming out from pilots the more it points at the pilot making a huge mistake. A mistake and a tragedy that could have been avoided.

[Baarignani]

It's irrelevant if they crashed or not, because they shouldn't have flown in the first place. That's why the pilot should be blamed not because of a mistake or an accident. That's even more confirmed by his having to file a special permit to fly in those conditions. Planes were not allowed to fly visually that morning because it was IFR only. Helicopters can file for this special permit and fly under bad conditions if the pilot so insists. The air traffic controller can't say no to him. Considering that every helicopter pilot interviewed wouldn't have flown in those conditions, he definitely made a crazy decision.

[aboveAverage]

It’s very difficult to write this, but after two days of immense grief and reflection, this is my letter to Kobe.

Dear Kobe,

Basketball has been incredibly important in shaping who I am today. From early on in childhood, I remember the warm glow of the television as my family watched basketball legends enter our living room. Through it all, you always stood out as the greatest. I witnessed you win five championships, lose in heart breaking defeats, fight through injuries, and support your teammates through thick and thin. Later on I admired you as a father, husband, mentor and philosopher. You taught me that excellence is a result of intense dedication and hard work. Through your compassion and sincerity, you inspired me and millions around the world to apply the same Mamba mentality to all aspects of life.

Everyone wanted to be like Kobe. You were our generation’s superhero. Superheroes don’t die in the movies, yet you did. It reminds me of our mortality. It reminds me that we have to cherish our own lives and our loved ones every day, because it can all end in a few seconds. Rest in eternal peace Kobe, Gianna and all those on board that helicopter. You will be dearly missed, and at the same time, will live on in our hearts forever.

[Heat3]

Ultimately it is the pilot’s responsibility for the safety of their passengers and aircraft. Perhaps he misjudged the weather conditions or was too overconfident in his abilities. It’s possible the visibility where they took off was very good but then ran into thicker fog on the way. When doing a flight plan, that’s one of the things you are supposed to check the conditions along your route.

We also don’t know if the fog contributed to some mechanical issue with helicopter. At least with small planes, you want to avoid flying through clouds and getting moisture in the engine.

We’ll have to wait until the final report is out.

[alienswon]

Watch on YouTube

Kobe Bryant death: National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) provide update into helicopter crash investigation
significant findings:
-located pilot's iPad [will be scrubbed for any information (maps/flight data/weather anything)
-found maintenance records (said weren't going to discuss since werent reviewed)

Questions about Pilot
-8200 hours of flight time (lifetime) July 2019 [added sidebar (my personal comment): Malcolm Gladwell says 10,000 hours of anything is mastery level]
-1200 flight hours on S76 helicopter (the model they flew in); good amount of experience; been with company 10 years
RE: descent rate question
-descent rate was over 2000 ft per minute; "we do know this was a high energy impact"
-a descending left bank


More comments
-in 10 days a preliminary report will be released; will contain factual info; will NOT contain findings, analysis, any safety recommendations or probable cause
-in 12 to 18 months which will include findings, recommendations, and probable cause. In final reports safety recommendations will be made to prevent a similar accident from happening again

About Terrain Awareness Warning Systems(TAWS) (this would have shown pilot of hills/mountains)
-helicopter did not have this
-in 2005 NTSB recommended that all helicopters with more than 6 people should have this [recommended after a fatal helicopter crash]; FAA ignored this recommendation
-in 2014 NTSB officially stated this was "unacceptable" that the FAA never implemented it


Reporter questions:
"how much did they almost clear the mountain?" answer: "maybe 20 to 30 ft"
-more on this, they say even though if they had cleared this, there were other hills within the same area.

[G R E Y]

Watch on YouTube

Kobe Bryant death: National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) provide update into helicopter crash investigation
significant findings:
-located an pilots iPad
-found maintenance records (said weren't going to discuss since werent reviewed)

Questions about Pilot
-8200 hundred hours of flight time (lifetime) July 2019
-1200 flight on S76 helicopter; good amount of experience; been with company 10 years
RE: descent rate question
-descent rate was over 2000 ft per minute; "we do know this was a high energy impact"
-a descending left bank

More comments
-in 10 days a preliminary report will be released; will contain factual info; will NOT contain findings, analysis, any safety recommendations or probable cause
-in 12 to 18 months which will include findings, recommendations, and probably cause. In final reports safety recommendations will be made to prevent a similar accident from happening again

About Terrain Awareness Warning Systems (this would have show pilots of hills/mountains)
-helicopter did not have this
-in 2005 NTSB recommended that all helicopters with more than 6 people should have this [recommended after a fatal helicopter crash]; FAA ignored this recommendation
-in 2014 NTSB officially stated this was "unacceptable" that the FAA never implemented it


Reporter questions:
"how much did they almost clear the mountain?" answer: "maybe 20 to 30 ft

Watching this now, too.

That the FAA didn't implement these recommendations is **** infuriating.

It's also **** infuriating that they missed the top of the hill they crashed into by about 20-30 feet.

Twenty to thirty feet.

[Sgt Major]

D-Wade, Jerry West and Reggie Miller joined the Inside the NBA crew. Tune in, it's very nice and emotional.

[Pennebaker]

Watch on YouTube

At 1:55 they interview a helicopter pilot who has also flown Kobe before and he says that he never felt pressured by Kobe to fly in unsafe conditions. What was the pilot thinking?

According to People magazine Kobe would only fly in helicopters when Aro Zobayan was his pilot. So I guess he trusted that pilot implicitly.

They had to wait 12 minutes for clearance to fly into bad weather and I think Kobe would've known what was going on while they were circling and waiting.

But, in general, I don't think helicopters should ever fly in fog. If I was Kobe I would not have okay'd flying into fog like that - especially with kids in the helicopter. Obviously if I was the pilot I wouldn't do it either. But it's not illegal. It's just much more risky.

[G R E Y]

About Terrain Awareness Warning Systems (this would have shown pilots of hills/mountains)
-helicopter did not have this
-in 2005 NTSB recommended that all helicopters with more than 6 people should have this [recommended after a fatal helicopter crash]; FAA ignored this recommendation
-in 2014 NTSB officially stated this was "unacceptable" that the FAA never implemented it


Reporter questions:
"how much did they almost clear the mountain?" answer: "maybe 20 to 30 ft"
-more on this, they say even though if they had cleared this, there were other hills within the same area.

Thanks for adding the extra info.

I think the double-edged sword right now is that had the helicopter had the TAWS it would certainly have helped the pilot see his terrain and options far better. That's not to say he could have navigated out of it, we just don't know at this point. And that knowing could certainly have been helped had a black box been mandatory for this aircraft - another recommendation the FAA refused to implement. I can't ... I just can't...

[alienswon]

About Terrain Awareness Warning Systems (this would have shown pilots of hills/mountains)
-helicopter did not have this
-in 2005 NTSB recommended that all helicopters with more than 6 people should have this [recommended after a fatal helicopter crash]; FAA ignored this recommendation
-in 2014 NTSB officially stated this was "unacceptable" that the FAA never implemented it


Reporter questions:
"how much did they almost clear the mountain?" answer: "maybe 20 to 30 ft"
-more on this, they say even though if they had cleared this, there were other hills within the same area.

Thanks for adding the extra info.

I think the double-edged sword right now is that had the helicopter had the TAWS it would certainly have helped the pilot see his terrain and options far better. That's not to say he could have navigated out of it, we just don't know at this point. And that knowing could certainly have been helped had a black box been mandatory for this aircraft - another recommendation the FAA refused to implement. I can't ... I just can't...

yea i think in 2020 some form of terrain mapping would certainly give the pilot a way to gauge where he was. My own speculation, is maybe he was using the IPAD for that but it just wasnt updating as fast. Again that is my own speculation.

my stomach is turning though because that last descent im sure they all sensed it...

[zshawn10]

Read on Twitter

[ratul]

Ugh, so there was a descent. Sickening.

Basically though sounds like the pilot didn’t eff up but tried to get out of the situation. Basically an accident in weather that got worse.

The descent. Ugh. Makes me sick to my stomach

[Swish1906]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Roy The Natural]

Watch on YouTube

Kobe Bryant death: National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) provide update into helicopter crash investigation
significant findings:
-located an pilots iPad
-found maintenance records (said weren't going to discuss since werent reviewed)

Questions about Pilot
-8200 hundred hours of flight time (lifetime) July 2019
-1200 flight on S76 helicopter; good amount of experience; been with company 10 years
RE: descent rate question
-descent rate was over 2000 ft per minute; "we do know this was a high energy impact"
-a descending left bank

More comments
-in 10 days a preliminary report will be released; will contain factual info; will NOT contain findings, analysis, any safety recommendations or probable cause
-in 12 to 18 months which will include findings, recommendations, and probably cause. In final reports safety recommendations will be made to prevent a similar accident from happening again

About Terrain Awareness Warning Systems (this would have shown pilots of hills/mountains)
-helicopter did not have this
-in 2005 NTSB recommended that all helicopters with more than 6 people should have this [recommended after a fatal helicopter crash]; FAA ignored this recommendation
-in 2014 NTSB officially stated this was "unacceptable" that the FAA never implemented it


Reporter questions:
"how much did they almost clear the mountain?" answer: "maybe 20 to 30 ft"
-more on this, they say even though if they had cleared this, there were other hills within the same area.

It's always shocking that some of these fields that should be regulated so tightly, and are, still have so much ineptitude within them. I've seen it first hand when I was in the military. I told a small truncated story earlier in this thread, but I'll repeat it here.

When I was in the military I had a friend named Jack Valentine.



He died on board the USS Frank Cable in an accident in which a steam pipe burst and flooded the engine room. He was 19 years old. I believe I was 20 years old at the time. The ship had just come back from what is called a "friends and family cruise." This is where those on board the ship get to invite their friends and family, and the ship does a small 2-6 hour cruise and everyone enjoys a good meal and some nice ocean views on board the ship. I wasn't on board the ship during this cruise. I was on leave (vacation), and had 2 more days of vacation before I was back to join the ship and work again. My duty section was on that day, and I was part of the emergency response team.

During this cruise reports came from engineering that the ship's boiler was giving strange readings. When the ship pulled back into port and moored up, it was decided by the engineering officer and the captain that they would run tests with the boiler hot, despite the inherent safety risks involved. The justification that I heard for doing this, was that people were tired and just wanted to go home. During the running of these tests, the boiler became over-pressurized, and the safety release valve failed to open. This caused a rupture in the steam lines and pressurized steam flooded the engine room. My friend Jack died, along with another sailor. I believe that another 5 were severely injured.

The reports I got from my friends on the emergency response team were horrific. They told me that the when the alarms sounded and they rushed to help those who had escaped the steam in the engine room, their skin was melting, and dripping off of them. The fire retardant coveralls you where provide no meaningful protection from this type of event. The response team did the best they could, but there's not much you can do in a situation like this.

I still hate the reality that I wasn't on board that day. There's nothing I could have done, but illogically that isn't always what my heart believes. I'm also relieved that I wasn't on board and didn't have to relive those moments the rest of my life. There will always be that discrepancy between how my mind envisions the event, and how it actually occurred, and that will always be something that I have difficulty reconciling when I stop and reminisce on this portion of my life. I still remember calling my mother at 1:00am in the morning (due to the time difference) and breaking down on the phone. It was a devastating event, and hard to reconcile.

I believe that both the engineering officer and the captain were heavily reprimanded for not following proper procedure. I don't remember all the specifics, nor do I even care at this point. It will just always stick with me as an event that was just so incredibly needless and dumb. Life is fragile. Cherish the time you spend with your friends and family, and always remember that many times death comes with out warning, and we are all just numbered balls in a giant lottery ball machine. Just do the best you can to make a positive impact.

I don't bring this story up to shift this thread away from Kobe or those on board the helicopter during this tragedy. I bring this up to reiterate that strict regulations are in place for a reason. It is unbelievable, disgraceful , and unacceptable that these regulations are often ignored. These are the costs of ignoring such regulations. It is important to remember how even the seemingly tedious details of a procedure or process are almost always there for an important reason.

[Clyde Frazier]

Don't know how many people caught the roundtable on TNT over the last hour, but it was incredible. I'm sure it'll end up on YouTube or replayed on TV later.

[The Laker Kid]

FAA should change that [recommendation] to [mandatory] ASAP. I am shocked to find out that this aircraft has no flight recorder and TAWS, which is pretty much mandatory in commercial planes. How many people have to die before rules like this gets implemented?

[Castle Black]

Jerry West just made me cry. Again. Feel like I just watched a father speak 3 days after losing his son. That was tough.

[Boardbreaker]

FAA should change that [recommendation] to [mandatory] ASAP. I am shocked to find out that this aircraft has no flight recorder and TAWS, which is pretty much mandatory in commercial planes. How many people have to die before rules like this gets implemented?

The silver lining is that these changes probably happen now. Shame it takes a tragedy like this but hopefully that reduces future incidents from taking place.

[CaptainFanchini]

The chills

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