Honest question about Tatum

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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#41 » by evevale » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:37 am

IMO - all he needs to do is continue refining his perimeter shooting and he will be a top 10 player in the coming years. He has everything you'd want and more for a modern day wing. He's good from every range but if he could be great from 3 and FT his numbers will skyrocket
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#42 » by Pelon chingon » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:40 am

He is Rudy Gay and that's okay.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#43 » by Je K » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:55 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
KonKrete wrote:per 36:

24+ppg 7+rbpg 5+aspg 50/40/90+shooting. A TS% of .625+ A OFF rating of 120+/100 and a DEF rating below 105 per 100 poss.

That should put him in the top 15.


Oh, that's all he needs to do to be a top 15 player? Put up top 3 player stats?


Ya you know, just put together one of the best overall seasons ever. What kind of standards do you have to be a top 15 player for today...

Those are Khris Middleton's actual stats this season... And you just said you'd take Tatum over Middleton?
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#44 » by GrandTheftRondo » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:55 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Im a huge Tatum fan (said I think he's going to be a better offensive PG in the other Tatum thread), but I also do think we have to factor in his surrounding situation when comparing him to other young guys. I mean his surrounding pieces are Kemba, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward, while also having one of the best coaches in the league and solid rotation pieces as well like Theis and Kanter.

Lots of other young guys dont have that around them. Switch Booker with Tatum what happens? Ya Booker isn't the defender Tatum is, but what level of offense could we maybe see from him if he got to play alongside Kemba/Brown/Hayward.

Not trying to make this a Tatum vs Booker thread or anything like that. Just some extra context I think that needs to be taken into consideration when thinking about boosting him way above other young wings stuck in horrible franchises.

With all that said, hard not to get excited about a 21 year old that is an elite defender who is dropping 20+ points. I did just a really quick look on this the other day (so I could be wrong on this). But if Tatum gets on one of the All defense teams this year (I think he deserves it), he would be the first 21 year old perimeter player to be on an all defense team and a 20+ ppg scorer since Kobe. That is pretty damn special.

On the contrary, Tatum would get far more opportunity to handle the ball, make mistakes and figure things out in a situation like Booker.

In his first year he was essentially a three and d guy, albeit a very handy one.

Last year obviously we had the chemistry debacle. This season even with his increased scoring he doesn’t handle the ball nearly as much as what a number one option would. In a way it probably helps him. But it also prevents him from learning and making mistakes as the focal guy of the offence for entire games. I’ve got a feeling his pick and roll game would be more advanced if he was in a situation like Booker’s.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#45 » by The Comedian » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:59 am

Je K wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Oh, that's all he needs to do to be a top 15 player? Put up top 3 player stats?


Ya you know, just put together one of the best overall seasons ever. What kind of standards do you have to be a top 15 player for today...

Those are Khris Middleton's actual stats this season...


Middleton is awesome, most would agree.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#46 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:07 am

Je K wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Oh, that's all he needs to do to be a top 15 player? Put up top 3 player stats?


Ya you know, just put together one of the best overall seasons ever. What kind of standards do you have to be a top 15 player for today...

Those are Khris Middleton's actual stats this season... And you just said you'd take Tatum over Middleton?


First thing I will say is I have horrible reading comprehension, didnt see the per 36 part haha. There is a big difference between doing that per 36 and actual per game numbers.

Middleton is a very good player and rightful all star. But yes I will take Tatum over him, I think Tatum is much more impactful defender.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#47 » by The Comedian » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:13 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Je K wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ya you know, just put together one of the best overall seasons ever. What kind of standards do you have to be a top 15 player for today...

Those are Khris Middleton's actual stats this season... And you just said you'd take Tatum over Middleton?


First thing I will say is I have horrible reading comprehension, didnt see the per 36 part haha. There is a big difference between doing that per 36 and actual per game numbers.

Middleton is a very good player and rightful all star. But yes I will take Tatum over him, I think Tatum is much more impactful defender.


Yeah I did not see it either lol, maybe i should stop calling out other posters for not reading posts :D
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#48 » by Je K » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:17 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Je K wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ya you know, just put together one of the best overall seasons ever. What kind of standards do you have to be a top 15 player for today...

Those are Khris Middleton's actual stats this season... And you just said you'd take Tatum over Middleton?


First thing I will say is I have horrible reading comprehension, didnt see the per 36 part haha. There is a big difference between doing that per 36 and actual per game numbers.

Middleton is a very good player and rightful all star. But yes I will take Tatum over him, I think Tatum is much more impactful defender.

That's fair haha.

I do think the gap on offense (especially efficiency) this season more than covers the defensive gap between the two, but I obviously haven't watched as much of Tatum this year. I think I'm still a little salty from people mentioning Tatum as an obvious all-star while leaving off Middleton, who I believe is clearly having a better season. But Tatum is definitely impressing me this season.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#49 » by jfs1000d » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:34 am

ccie8030 wrote:
BodieB wrote:If he ends the season the ways he's played in 2020 there should be no doubt.


Tatum = slightly better version of Rudy Gay

Slightly? I love Rudy as uconn guy. He can’t do nearly the things Tatum can do. He never could.

Watch games please.


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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#50 » by His Airness 23 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:37 am

Tatum will be a Top 3 guy by the time these playoffs end.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#51 » by The Comedian » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:38 am

jfs1000d wrote:
ccie8030 wrote:
BodieB wrote:If he ends the season the ways he's played in 2020 there should be no doubt.


Tatum = slightly better version of Rudy Gay

Slightly? I love Rudy as uconn guy. He can’t do nearly the things Tatum can do. He never could.

Watch games please.


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He's being sarcastic lol.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#52 » by KonKrete » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:39 am

Yep. Those are Middletons actual numbers this year and the reason I use them are twofold.

1: Too put some light on that man's game and the outstanding year that he is putting up.

2: For posters to realize how hard this whole top 10/15 thing is hard to crack. Does anybody have Middleton as a top 10 player? Well then if the guy you're asking about can't beat that, then the answer is no. He isn't either.
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Honest question about Tatum 

Post#53 » by jfs1000d » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:41 am

zimpy27 wrote:Leaving out Tatum for these lists:

Top 10 could be Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Davis, Embiid, Doncic, Jokic, Harden, KAT, Lillard

Then in next 15 could be Butler, Trae, Gobert, PG13, Siakam, Simmons, CP3, Middleton, Kemba, Middleton, Jrue, Lowry, Beal, Durant (healthy), Nurkic (healthy)

Who do you have Tatum above from this list of 25?


Doncic not top 10. KAT isn’t either, but I won’t put Tatum In Group 1.

As far as 10-25, that’s where Tatum is,

I put him above trae, Gobert. Siakim, cp3, kemba, Middleton. Jrue, Lowry, Beal.

As far as his stats, he had a rough start to the year finishing At the rim. He has made a big change in driving to the rim in the last 6 weeks. He is shooting better at the rim.

Tatum is also 21. Siakim 26.

And I love trae young’s raw basketball ability, but he is putting up huge numbers on an awful team. I think his game and stats don’t matter. Beal at least he played in playoffs, but his stats are empty too.

As far as Middleton. He is a product of Giannis. Middleton is a a great shooter, but he isnt a No. 1. Neither is Lowry, Gilbert, jrue.


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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#54 » by The Comedian » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:43 am

His Airness 23 wrote:Tatum will be a Top 3 guy by the time these playoffs end.


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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#55 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:45 am

LOL. The rankings are completely subjective, but people are throwing numbers around indiscriminately trying to prove a point (and failing). PER is flawed for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it says nothing about defense. Win shares are flawed because a great player on a lousy team will almost always have more shares than that same player on a very good team.

What matters is performance on the big stage. Anyone can drop 30 on a bad team in a rout. There are plenty of empty stats in the NBA. It''s when you drop 30 against good defenders and make game winning plays when the season is on the line-- that's the way to become top 10. Kawhi has done that, Tatum hasn't. But Tatum is 21, so give him time.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#56 » by HoopsterJones » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:56 am

jfs1000d wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Leaving out Tatum for these lists:

Top 10 could be Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Davis, Embiid, Doncic, Jokic, Harden, KAT, Lillard

Then in next 15 could be Butler, Trae, Gobert, PG13, Siakam, Simmons, CP3, Middleton, Kemba, Middleton, Jrue, Lowry, Beal, Durant (healthy), Nurkic (healthy)

Who do you have Tatum above from this list of 25?


Doncic not top 10. KAT isn’t either, but I won’t put Tatum In Group 1.

As far as 10-25, that’s where Tatum is,

I put him above trae, Gobert. Siakim, cp3, kemba, Middleton. Jrue, Lowry, Beal.

As far as his stats, he had a rough start to the year finishing At the rim. He has made a big change in driving to the rim in the last 6 weeks. He is shooting better at the rim.

Tatum is also 21. Siakim 26.

And I love trae young’s raw basketball ability, but he is putting up huge numbers on an awful team. I think his game and stats don’t matter. Beal at least he played in playoffs, but his stats are empty too.

As far as Middleton. He is a product of Giannis. Middleton is a a great shooter, but he isnt a No. 1. Neither is Lowry, Gilbert, jrue.


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Doncic is having a top 10 season.
28.8 PPG 9.5 RPG 8.7 APG.

Tatum is 21 and Siakam is 25. Tatum turns 22 before Siakam turns 26.

Middleton is having an excellent shooting season. Far better than Tatum is having. Defensively Tatum is superior.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#57 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:08 am

lol that middleton post is amazing. What incredible stats he has this year.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#58 » by Djh7475 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:26 am

He just won player of the week on 30-7.5-3.8–1.3 at shooting 50/53 leading an undermanned team to 4 wins and coming up clutch. Even looking back at his last 20 or so games, Tatum isn’t as far from being a top 10 player as people think. He had a brutal start missing layups and finishing, but his trajectory from month to month has been a massive incline every month. I think 25-8-5-1.5-1 on 48-40-85ish gets him close with his defense, and lately he’s looked like those numbers are getting closer to the norm.

He’s only 21, and almost no one in the league approaches top 10 at such a young age. Once he does what he’s been doing the last 20 or so games consistently and continues to build on it, he will get there. He’s the best player with by far the best on/odds on the team with the 2nd best net rating in the NBA. A brutal start have watered down his season stats, but his trajectory has him headed towards the top 10 list sooner rather than later.

It’s no coincidence that NBA.com moved him all the way up to #9 on their MVP board. No he’s not the 9th best player in the league, but he’s the most important piece on an injury riddled team that just keeps winning games. One step at a time...all star this year, maybe an All-NBA team if his recent play holds up. Over the next couple of years when he’s consistently dominant like he’s been of late is when he will start moving up the rankings.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#59 » by paulbball » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:34 am

Tatum is approaching prime Paul George level with his play recently.

Assuming his defense improves or stays about the same, he is a NBA All-Defensive Second Team team floor kind of player. Anything above 22/7 is just gravy. Defense will make him a top 15 player in the league. Top 10 is harder to break into without a bit more counting stat or huge playoff plays.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#60 » by Optms » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:53 am

Tatum is probably one of my favorite players in the league to watch right now. His game reminds me of a prime Nuggets Carmelo Anthony but with infinitely better defense. Making Kobe proud somewhere.

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