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...except the acronym literally stands for 'all time'.

I just don't know why anyone needs to try to label someone or something the 'best'.

MJ> LBJ


LeBron Defense Force is working over time this week.

To me the answer is obvious. It's all just speculation and shooting the breeze... but if you have to go through that exercise, ask yourself which player would be your top choice year by year relative to the game and its rules at the time. Player with most years wins....

Pennebaker wrote:

GrindCityHustle wrote:Since the game changes so much and is so different than what it even was in the 80s we should bestoy GOAT as a generational thing or even for a 10 year period?

50-George Mikan
60s Wilt and Bill
70s Dr J and Kareem
80s Magic Johnson and Larry Bird
90s Michael Jordan
00s Kobe Bryant
10s LeBron
20s-?


Would this be the best format going forward or should there always be one GOAT? I feel some eras even have a dual goat.

Kobe was never considered the GOAT of any generation. Even at Kobe's best, LeBron was still better than him, and also in Kobe's era an argument can be made for Tim Duncan.

But LeBron has legitimately been the best player in the NBA every year since 2006.

https://youtu.be/anoqbgOZrEg
https://youtu.be/02NeajL75e8
https://youtu.be/zZbAh1wPoNI
https://youtu.be/Fv37ykpYk84

About never... lol. Lebron himself said Kobe was better than him. 2008 Olympic Kobe showed who's the best player on the team when he money on the line. Kobe Bryant was considered the best player in the game from 2001 to 2010 by MOST. Lebron took the throne in 2012. 2011 Dirk was the best player in the game. 2011 was the peak level of Lebron james where you couldn't make argument for anyone else but Lebron. I agree with you Lebron was way ahead of his player of his generation till Kd came up. Kobe had to share with all time greats like shaq Tim and Lebron. But he was considered the best by most. I'm not even debating Lebron vs Kobe because that's pointless. I'm just saying dont put out false information or speak on behalf of everyone.

OdomFan wrote:

Fencer reregistered wrote:

OdomFan wrote:
This is why MJ is the Greatest of All Time to me. He had no peer on the Mountain top of that decade with him, but he alongside Pippen consistently denied all those Hall of Fame Worthy guys from grabbing a single championship throughout that time.

Russell et al. denied both West and Robertson (although both finally got rings after Russell retired). That's more impressive to me than denying Barkley and Malone.

Well not to me. Both of those guys were season MVPs and their teams were on a pretty hot streak going into those playoffs. Both of which had a great chance of getting the job done against Chicago and brought it considering the serie's came down to a final basket that could have gone either way. No disrespect to West and Robertson, those guys are as legendary as it gets when it comes to Basketball but hey. To each their own. Also, I don't consider Russell to be the Greatest Center of All Time let alone Greatest overall Player. He's top 10 at best for me.

Russell also denied Wilt in his 3 MVP seasons and Chamberlain was clearly better player than Barkley or Malone.

At best top 10? What is the case for him not being in top 5 besides "ppg" and "his era sucks"?

One question from someone from Europe / Germany who only follows the NBA and no other US sports:
Is this GOAT obsession a thing in all North American sports or is this just a NBA thing?

I have literally never heard anyone in Germany debate the GOAT in soccer for longer than 5min. It just doesn't make sense. You can't compare sports from the 70/80 or even 90s to todays sports. I was watching some old soccer highlights from the 90s World Cup a few weeks ago. It seemed like a differnt sport.

Nobody can say if MJ or Lebron were the better basketball player. That's just a silly debate in my opinion. We should be discussing Basketball details with that intensity.

The discussion that i like more is "who had the best basketball career ever?"
In my opinion there are also tiers.
- MJ tops all of them.
- Karreem and Lebron are the next two
- Magic, Bird, Russell, Duncan
That's my clear cut top 7.

No, that would be GOAG!

It has always been and can never be more tho, than a feeling. Proclaiming your GOAT basketball player is the same as proclaiming your GOAT ice cream flavor.

kinste wrote:One question from someone from Europe / Germany who only follows the NBA and no other US sports:
Is this GOAT obsession a thing in all North American sports or is this just a NBA thing?

I have literally never heard anyone in Germany debate the GOAT in soccer for longer than 5min. It just doesn't make sense. You can't compare sports from the 70/80 or even 90s to todays sports. I was watching some old soccer highlights from the 90s World Cup a few weeks ago. It seemed like a differnt sport.

Nobody can say if MJ or Lebron were the better basketball player. That's just a silly debate in my opinion. We should be discussing Basketball details with that intensity.

The discussion that i like more is "who had the best basketball career ever?"
In my opinion there are also tiers.
- MJ tops all of them.
- Karreem and Lebron are the next two
- Magic, Bird, Russell, Duncan
That's my clear cut top 7.

They're obsessed with the discussion, but your "who had the best basketball career ever?" ends up being almost the exact same discussion (NO WILT???), that's just semantics.

G-Mamba wrote:

Pennebaker wrote:

GrindCityHustle wrote:Since the game changes so much and is so different than what it even was in the 80s we should bestoy GOAT as a generational thing or even for a 10 year period?

50-George Mikan
60s Wilt and Bill
70s Dr J and Kareem
80s Magic Johnson and Larry Bird
90s Michael Jordan
00s Kobe Bryant
10s LeBron
20s-?


Would this be the best format going forward or should there always be one GOAT? I feel some eras even have a dual goat.

Kobe was never considered the GOAT of any generation. Even at Kobe's best, LeBron was still better than him, and also in Kobe's era an argument can be made for Tim Duncan.

But LeBron has legitimately been the best player in the NBA every year since 2006.

https://youtu.be/anoqbgOZrEg
https://youtu.be/02NeajL75e8
https://youtu.be/zZbAh1wPoNI
https://youtu.be/Fv37ykpYk84

About never... lol. Lebron himself said Kobe was better than him. 2008 Olympic Kobe showed who's the best player on the team when he money on the line. Kobe Bryant was considered the best player in the game from 2001 to 2010 by MOST. Lebron took the throne in 2012. 2011 Dirk was the best player in the game. 2011 was the peak level of Lebron james where you couldn't make argument for anyone else but Lebron. I agree with you Lebron was way ahead of his player of his generation till Kd came up. Kobe had to share with all time greats like shaq Tim and Lebron. But he was considered the best by most. I'm not even debating Lebron vs Kobe because that's pointless. I'm just saying dont put out false information or speak on behalf of everyone.

I don't want this to be a heated debate, but could you please explain to me what was so special about Kobe's Olympic 2008 performance. I think it's a bit hyped up. I was watching some of the fourth quarter lately and it was a good team effort with contributions by Wade, Lebron, Paul and Kobe. The only thing Kobe did was hit a 3 with over 3min left.

Also "Kobe Bryant was considered the best player in the game from 2001 to 2010 by MOST" that's just wrong. I get it, you are a Kobe fan. But the truth is that there was no consensus top player in the 00. And that is a good thing. There were always debates about Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, even Lebron (at the end of the 00s). I like the league better if there is a debate about the best player. With the Lebron between 2010 and 2015 it was different. He clearly was better then anybody else. Just like MJ in the 90s.

gst8 wrote:Not really the GOAT if you do that though.

Greatest Of A Time

kinste wrote:

G-Mamba wrote:

Pennebaker wrote:
Kobe was never considered the GOAT of any generation. Even at Kobe's best, LeBron was still better than him, and also in Kobe's era an argument can be made for Tim Duncan.

But LeBron has legitimately been the best player in the NBA every year since 2006.

https://youtu.be/anoqbgOZrEg
https://youtu.be/02NeajL75e8
https://youtu.be/zZbAh1wPoNI
https://youtu.be/Fv37ykpYk84

About never... lol. Lebron himself said Kobe was better than him. 2008 Olympic Kobe showed who's the best player on the team when he money on the line. Kobe Bryant was considered the best player in the game from 2001 to 2010 by MOST. Lebron took the throne in 2012. 2011 Dirk was the best player in the game. 2011 was the peak level of Lebron james where you couldn't make argument for anyone else but Lebron. I agree with you Lebron was way ahead of his player of his generation till Kd came up. Kobe had to share with all time greats like shaq Tim and Lebron. But he was considered the best by most. I'm not even debating Lebron vs Kobe because that's pointless. I'm just saying dont put out false information or speak on behalf of everyone.

I don't want this to be a heated debate, but could you please explain to me what was so special about Kobe's Olympic 2008 performance. I think it's a bit hyped up. I was watching some of the fourth quarter lately and it was a good team effort with contributions by Wade, Lebron, Paul and Kobe. The only thing Kobe did was hit a 3 with over 3min left.

Also "Kobe Bryant was considered the best player in the game from 2001 to 2010 by MOST" that's just wrong. I get it, you are a Kobe fan. But the truth is that there was no consensus top player in the 00. And that is a good thing. There were always debates about Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, even Lebron (at the end of the 00s). I like the league better if there is a debate about the best player. With the Lebron between 2010 and 2015 it was different. He clearly was better then anybody else. Just like MJ in the 90s.

When the game got close he took over the game. Play making and making big shots. There was debate but I said by most. Alot of players and media at the time considered Kobe the best player in the game. Even the players who were in the debate with him said Kobe was better at the time. Amongst players he was considered the best player and media at the time. I'm showing evidence. That doesn't mean it wasnt debatable. But 2006- 2009 I think Kobe was best not debatable. Similar to what you said about lebron. I disagree 2010 kobe was still better. 2011 Dirk proved he was the best in that season.

The Rebel wrote:Why do Lebron fans work so hard to find a way to call Lebron GOAT? .

Does one really have to "find a way" for a GOAT level peak plus GOAT-level longetivty to be considered the GOAT career?

Is there a reason you've never addressed that despite it being explained to you multiple times?

Might it be because you don't actually know how to address it?

Shame. I'd expect a mod to know how to manage discussion.

Quite literally stands for greatest of all time but sure. You can call your wife Stanley too while you're at it, whats in a word anyway.