Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year?

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Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year?

Yes
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34%
No
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#41 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Honestly Covington has the size and length to get shots off with ease against those guys, which I consider significant. Sure it's a lesser of evils situation, but now consider playing the Clips. If Klay guards Lou Will than Curry/Beal would be relegated to Kawhi/PG which would be an absolute nightmare.


Oh yes, yes it would, but I don't think the issue is size per say. It is having an average at best defender and a bad one. Size is just the least of their worries with those 3.


But you would at least agree with me that Curry or Beal (probably Curry) would take on Lou in that scenario, right? They wouldn't always have the luxury of sticking Klay against ball-handlers.


I mean I assume you want Klay on leonard who's the best scorer (and come playoff time I expect he'll have the ball in his hands on most plays) for the clippers and then yeah you're putting Curry or Beal on lou who's well going to have no problem driving past them and then you get the nightmare of PG where I would agree height is a small issue with guarding his shot (not that he can't drive past them or power through them too), but frankly the issue is the warriors just can't match up there because they need at least two good defenders to handle those 3 (CP3 would not fix the height issue but I'd feel way better with him than Beal in a defensive system). That however is going to be an issue for most of the league. Who are the lakers putting on those 3?
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#42 » by ProcessDoctor » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:56 pm

If the Warriors can get Wiseman, they should take him and stand pat. I wouldn't trade the pick unless it’s for a bonafide top 10-15 player who fills a need, which Beal doesn’t.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#43 » by The_Hater » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:08 pm

LipSkinMatter wrote:Only if Beal learns to play defense.


Beal isn’t a terrible defensive player, better than Wiggins and considerably better than Russell. I don’t see how this is a major issue.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#44 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:I'm not in love with the talk of Wiggins for Beal, particularly given adding two potentially high lottery picks. Beal is better than Wiggins, don't get me wrong. I'm not even a fan of Wiggins, though he's been a pleasant surprise so far. But the real concern with Wiggins is his defense. If your goal is to improve the defense by swapping him for Beal, but that requires you to play Klay out of position at the 3 instead of as an oversized 2, in the end I'm not sure your defense is especially better, and it cost you two really good picks to do it.


Even in a hypothetical where Klay maintains the same defensive impact playing SF, I'd say Beal is clearly a worse defender than Wiggins. He's truly one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league, but maybe it's inflated by his offensive usage? Either way I agree with your logic about not wanting to make such a move.


What's this small forward stuff? Klay guards any mobile wing offensive player to hide his off ball problems and use his fairly good on ball defense. They don't just pair him up with the hypothetical "shooting guard" or second shortest player on the other team. That role doesn't change...what changes is now they'd have a very average but somewhat weak defender in Curry and then a bad defender in beal. This could be fine if they weren't looking to play small ball where Green can't just clean up for all kinds of problems as he ages.

Sure, but I think there is a clear connection here. We can say, "Klay guards whoever we need him to guard." But if the situation is that we start by saying, "He's on the floor with Curry and Beal, and neither of them will be able to guard a small forward very well, and realistically they may both struggle to guard a lot of shooting guards too", there are going to be more times you have to ask Klay to guard someone that will be tough for *him*, or at least give up the size advantage he's often operating with. Put him on almost any guard in the league and he's likely got a size advantage. But the more we have to put him on a small forward/wing, the more likely he has no size advantage, and meanwhile you're trying to guard their backcourt with Beal and Curry. Maybe to simplify things: you'd be talking about playing two guys together that lack size and aren't *great* defenders (George has watched Beal more than me and would strongly suggest Beal is a horrible defender), and that will put more heat on the other 3 guys even if they are good defenders, and will limit your options for how you match up and switch. And it is much more likely Klay has to help make up for guard shortcomings than Chriss or Smailagic.

And no, Curry isn't a horrible defender. But he isn't going to be effectively guarding small forwards any time soon.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#45 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Even in a hypothetical where Klay maintains the same defensive impact playing SF, I'd say Beal is clearly a worse defender than Wiggins. He's truly one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league, but maybe it's inflated by his offensive usage? Either way I agree with your logic about not wanting to make such a move.


What's this small forward stuff? Klay guards any mobile wing offensive player to hide his off ball problems and use his fairly good on ball defense. They don't just pair him up with the hypothetical "shooting guard" or second shortest player on the other team. That role doesn't change...what changes is now they'd have a very average but somewhat weak defender in Curry and then a bad defender in beal. This could be fine if they weren't looking to play small ball where Green can't just clean up for all kinds of problems as he ages.

Sure, but I think there is a clear connection here. We can say, "Klay guards whoever we need him to guard." But if the situation is that we start by saying, "He's on the floor with Curry and Beal, and neither of them will be able to guard a small forward very well, and realistically they may both struggle to guard a lot of shooting guards too", there are going to be more times you have to ask Klay to guard someone that will be tough for *him*, or at least give up the size advantage he's often operating with. Put him on almost any guard in the league and he's likely got a size advantage. But the more we have to put him on a small forward/wing, the more likely he has no size advantage, and meanwhile you're trying to guard their backcourt with Beal and Curry. Maybe to simplify things: you'd be talking about playing two guys together that lack size and aren't *great* defenders (George has watched Beal more than me and would strongly suggest Beal is a horrible defender), and that will put more heat on the other 3 guys even if they are good defenders, and will limit your options for how you match up and switch. And it is much more likely Klay has to help make up for guard shortcomings than Chriss or Smailagic.

And no, Curry isn't a horrible defender. But he isn't going to be effectively guarding small forwards any time soon.


The point is Beal just is a bad defender, size isn't his issue per say. He's just not a good defender in any way. Curry is average though physically weak. But this all goes back to they need 3 and D guys more so than another play maker and the D part is the biggest issue. You really in today's league need 4 plus defenders in your primary lineup or 2 freaking beastly zone guys. Beal is going the wrong way, but my point is much more it isn't about size. It's about beal just can't guard anyone.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#46 » by giberish » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:12 pm

The_Hater wrote:
LipSkinMatter wrote:Only if Beal learns to play defense.


Beal isn’t a terrible defensive player, better than Wiggins and considerably better than Russell. I don’t see how this is a major issue.


Beal's defense has been declining for years and completely collapsed this season. Even if this season's defensive collapse is due to a complete lack of give a damn on a tank team then general decline is troubling. The other big concern is that Klay is much better defensively against guys his size or smaller and really goes from being a plus defender at SG to a minus defender at SF.

IMO GS really needs to add a quality defensive SF with a useful all-around game to get back to a title contender. Not a KD replacement, but a 2015 Iggy replacement.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#47 » by The_Hater » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:52 pm

giberish wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
LipSkinMatter wrote:Only if Beal learns to play defense.


Beal isn’t a terrible defensive player, better than Wiggins and considerably better than Russell. I don’t see how this is a major issue.


Beal's defense has been declining for years and completely collapsed this season. Even if this season's defensive collapse is due to a complete lack of give a damn on a tank team then general decline is troubling. The other big concern is that Klay is much better defensively against guys his size or smaller and really goes from being a plus defender at SG to a minus defender at SF.

IMO GS really needs to add a quality defensive SF with a useful all-around game to get back to a title contender. Not a KD replacement, but a 2015 Iggy replacement.


Of course his defense collapsed this season, he’s playing on a bad team where nobody is playing any defence and has lost interest. That happens to la lot of players on lottery teams but that shouldn’t be confused with not knowing how to defend anymore.

And you’ll have to show me where the gradual decline has been before the current season because his defensive stats don’t support this.

Regardless, he’s no world beater on D but he’s still a better defensive player than Wiggins and especially Russell.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#48 » by Tor_Raps » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:01 am

I think the Warriors will be favourites without Beal. Just trade that pick for a good PF/C and sign a 6th man with the MLE.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#49 » by Black Jack » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:26 am

Mamba Mentality wrote:Seems rather redundant when you already have Klay. What the Warriors need is another Iggy/Durant type...someone who can defend multiple positions and space the floor. RoCo would have been the perfect complimentary piece.


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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#50 » by jangles86 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:27 am

It would be an amazing shooting team that’s for sure. But I don’t see how it works for Warriors. Also Beal ain’t leaving Wiz unless wizards get an absolute monster package involving picks and a young star.

Don’t see too many contending teams having the assets to entice the Wizards giving up Beal.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#51 » by DaPessimist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:33 am

We don't need Beal, we have the LeBron/Kawhi/PG/ stopper aka 'Stitch' Wiggins.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#52 » by Dino353 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:05 am

Golden State is like that ex girlfriend you dumped and no matter what she does she just won’t be the same anymore to you.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#53 » by Optms » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:20 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:If the Warriors can get Wiseman, they should take him and stand pat. I wouldn't trade the pick unless it’s for a bonafide top 10-15 player who fills a need, which Beal doesn’t.


Odds are there will be a disgruntled top 15 player ready to move. There always is.

Not a fan of keeping the pick AND the current core though. If they keep the pick just blow it up. Because no upcoming rookie meets the GS cores timeline. And if that rookie becomes a bust and the Warriors lose in the WCF or something, then holding onto a useless player would blow up in their faces even more.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#54 » by Lunartic » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:28 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Lunartic wrote:
Flash Falcon X wrote:Warriors haters: "Dynasty is over. They never coming back. Look how bad their team looks now."

Also Warriors haters: "Beal? How much help does Steph need???"

I don't get it. Do they suck or are they stacked/unfair? I've been confused with the narratives lately. Just like when people would say Klay/Draymond are overrated and aren't real all-stars, but then also say the Warriors are unfair for having too many good players. Make up your minds. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I, too, can be intellectually dishonest

Perhaps most critics are simply saying that Curry/Klay/Durant/Dray (4 all-stars) is a ridiculous amount of help

Anything more than 2 legit all-stars on one team is overkill and is considered a stacked team (random outlier teams like the Hawks don't apply obviously)

I guess we shall find out how good Curry is with just a single all-star when he returns this March


You say this like we don't already know how good Curry is



We know how well he plays when he has a multitude of all stars covering for him defensively and spreading the floor for him

He's a great player unquestionably but I believe he's also one of the most overated players in modern NBA history.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#55 » by michaelm » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:31 am

Lunartic wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Lunartic wrote:
I, too, can be intellectually dishonest

Perhaps most critics are simply saying that Curry/Klay/Durant/Dray (4 all-stars) is a ridiculous amount of help

Anything more than 2 legit all-stars on one team is overkill and is considered a stacked team (random outlier teams like the Hawks don't apply obviously)

I guess we shall find out how good Curry is with just a single all-star when he returns this March


You say this like we don't already know how good Curry is



We know how well he plays when he has a multitude of all stars covering for him defensively and spreading the floor for him

He's a great player unquestionably but I believe he's also one of the most overated players in modern NBA history.

So is he only good because of them, or did they become good because of him ?. It isn’t one or the other imo, but there is plenty of evidence for the latter.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#56 » by Metallikid » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:35 am

No, but probably any all-star quality PF would.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#57 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:52 am

Although I'm not against loading up on guards, if the Warriors trade big for anything its a SF or PF. And FWIW I've always considered Wiggins a SG.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#58 » by GeorgeMarcus » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:52 am

michaelm wrote:
Lunartic wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
You say this like we don't already know how good Curry is



We know how well he plays when he has a multitude of all stars covering for him defensively and spreading the floor for him

He's a great player unquestionably but I believe he's also one of the most overated players in modern NBA history.

So is he only good because of them, or did they become good because of him ?. It isn’t one or the other imo, but there is plenty of evidence for the latter.


Exactly- they made consecutive Finals appearances, broke the RS wins record, and won a ring before Durant came to town. Draymond has mostly been healthy this season and is playing on the worst team in the league. Klay's a good player but there's no argument he's at or even close to Curry's impact/ability.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#59 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:54 am

Flash Falcon X wrote:Warriors haters: "Dynasty is over. They never coming back. Look how bad their team looks now."

Also Warriors haters: "Beal? How much help does Steph need???"

I don't get it. Do they suck or are they stacked/unfair? I've been confused with the narratives lately. Just like when people would say Klay/Draymond are overrated and aren't real all-stars, but then also say the Warriors are unfair for having too many good players. Make up your minds. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Curry isn't young enough for another dynasty to happen.

And stacked. There will be not one talking head that doesn't put them top 4 in the west next year, to be generous. Without Beal.
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Re: Would Bradley Beal make the Warriors the favorites for next year? 

Post#60 » by GregOden » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:12 am

They need size and length on the defensive end for the playoffs, not more shooters to run up the score against bad teams in the regular season.

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