Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward

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Sulico
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#101 » by Sulico » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:43 am

1. Doncic
2. SGA

3.Tatum
4.Zion
5.Simmons
6.JJJ
7.Ja Morant
8.Mitchell
9.Young
10.Booker
11.Fox
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footworkonpoint
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#102 » by footworkonpoint » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:01 am

Why no Ingram? He's showed tremendous improvement this season. He's gotten better every season he's been in the league, showed great work ethic, and improved in areas in which he was subpar in, also he is still filling out that frame.

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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#103 » by Whole Truth » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:34 am

FelixD wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
probably want to go beyond the surface then, no?

Obviously all the efficiency numbers have gone way up which shouldn't happen with that type of increase in volume but did.

The Mavs team offense, driven by Luka, is essentially lapping the league this year. He's not just putting up a bunch of counting stats based on volume, but he's driving one of the best offenses we've ever seen.

He took a massive leap. He's still got clear flaws and plenty more to improve on, but the results are clear that he's a much much better player than last year. He made one of the biggest leaps any player ever has.

That's my point -- Ja might do the same, but we can't, and shouldn't assume it because we've almost never seen anything like this before.

Again I love Ja. I've been on record that I think he will be the best player from his draft, not Zion. But we shouldn't presume things no matter how much we want to.


TC, Mavs have a 114 offensive rating without Doncic in 1214 mins. His supporting cast is a potent offense without him, though he undoubtedly makes them better, vice versa.

I don't know much about advanced stats, help me out. Which efficiency numbers are you referring to because his FG%, 3PT% & eFG% are roughly the same as his rookie year?.

What are you talking about?
His FG is up 4% from his rookie year.
His TS is up 5% from his rookie year.
His 3pt stays the same.

The biggest difference is that this year he is shooting 70% within 0-3 feet. That is insane for a guard


The noticeable difference that I see, is that he's playing more PG than SG, has the ball in his hands more & is shooting more often.

When taking 20 shots a night, the law of averages comes into play. I've seen many volume shooters, shoot their way out of slow starts & then get hot. Didn't realize that 3-4% was considered, considerable improvement under that type of volume. So lets be accurate.

His FG is up .038%
His 3pt is down .004%
His eFG is up .040%
His TS is up .047%

Ja's FG is .086% better than Doncic's rookie season, .028 better than his 2nd year.
Ja's 3pt is .031% better than Doncic's rookie season, .035% better than his 2nd year.
Ja's eFG is .035% better than Doncic''s rookie season, .015% worse than his 2nd year.
Ja's TS is .023% better than Doncic's rookie season, .024% worse than his 2nd year.

Tell me, how is it that Doncic's eFG & TS are better than Ja's in his 2nd year, when his FG & 3pt percentages are not?. Volume?.

Ja is shooting 602 within 0-3 feet with teams not respecting his 2 apg from 3, they're playing him to drive, where Doncic took 7 3's as a rookie, 9 his 2nd year. Memphis' young team also has less than ideal spacing, so teams crowd the paint on the 160lb drive first guard, where Doncic has considerable size & strength on him.

IMO A bump in 3pt attempts for teams to respect & a little strength training should go a long way for Morant's potential to improve.
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#104 » by 2020 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:46 am

Luka Doncic
Zion Williamson

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Ja Morant
Devin Booker
De'Aaron Fox
Ben Simmons
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Trae Young

Just realized first and last were traded for lol
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#105 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:21 am

iggymcfrack wrote:Tatum’s getting mad underrated on a lot of these lists. He’s 21 years old, a superstar efficient #1 option on offense, and possibly the best defensive player in the entire NBA. I wouldn’t trade him for Harden, Jokic, or Embiid, let alone Trae, Booker, or Morant.
23, not 21. And if Simmons is so great the 76ers should have a better record.
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#106 » by Tomjas » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:24 am

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:Tatum’s getting mad underrated on a lot of these lists. He’s 21 years old, a superstar efficient #1 option on offense, and possibly the best defensive player in the entire NBA. I wouldn’t trade him for Harden, Jokic, or Embiid, let alone Trae, Booker, or Morant.
23, not 21. And if Simmons is so great the 76ers should have a better record.


Tatum is 21
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#107 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:59 am

Tomjas wrote:
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:Tatum’s getting mad underrated on a lot of these lists. He’s 21 years old, a superstar efficient #1 option on offense, and possibly the best defensive player in the entire NBA. I wouldn’t trade him for Harden, Jokic, or Embiid, let alone Trae, Booker, or Morant.
23, not 21. And if Simmons is so great the 76ers should have a better record.


Tatum is 21


My B thought he was talking about Simmons.
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#108 » by DCRYsing89 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:24 am

1. Luka Doncic - Easy pick, will be a top 5 NBA player for years to come.
2. Donovan Mitchell - Keeps improving and deserving Allstar already.
3. Ja Morant - Amazing player, love his game, but had to put Mitchell over him solely for the proven improvement.
4. Zion Williamson - His potential is through the roof, and I can see him being as good if not better across his career than the guys above, but the injury risk drops him below them.
5. Jayson Tatum - Amazing scorer, and solid defensively. Easy to build around, and seems to fit well with a good leader and playoff proven.
6. Jaren Jackson Jr - Not as proven as Tatum, but same reasons except more so showing amazing defensive ability.
7. Ben Simmons - incredibly hard to build around, has shown minimal improvement, has a lot of skill but isn’t playoff proven and can’t close games efficently.
8. Devin Booker - Defense has him this low, alongside his lack of winning so far. He hasn’t been as fortunate as the others being on great franchises, but he is still a great player, and building around him would be easier than Ben, but Ben can still lead his teams to regular wins.
9. De’Aaron Fox - Showed last season a lot, struggled this season though. Not a great defender, and also still a few question marks of his ceiling for me.
10. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - He is showing improvement, and showing he can be a great scorer,but nothing more yet. He can get you buckets but that doesn’t put him over these guys who are all stellar in their own right.
11. Trae Young - his defense hurts him this much, a amazing offensive player, but a horrible defender. Thus making him hard to build around, if Nash couldn’t step up and get a championship, will Young?

Though Young, Booker and Fox all have their cases hurt by their team a lot, and winning, which isn’t only their fault.
Also I value defense really highly when picking these guys for the reason that, they are all amazing on offense.
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#109 » by Dundalis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:58 am

Whole Truth wrote:
FelixD wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
TC, Mavs have a 114 offensive rating without Doncic in 1214 mins. His supporting cast is a potent offense without him, though he undoubtedly makes them better, vice versa.

I don't know much about advanced stats, help me out. Which efficiency numbers are you referring to because his FG%, 3PT% & eFG% are roughly the same as his rookie year?.

What are you talking about?
His FG is up 4% from his rookie year.
His TS is up 5% from his rookie year.
His 3pt stays the same.

The biggest difference is that this year he is shooting 70% within 0-3 feet. That is insane for a guard


The noticeable difference that I see, is that he's playing more PG than SG, has the ball in his hands more & is shooting more often.

When taking 20 shots a night, the law of averages comes into play. I've seen many volume shooters, shoot their way out of slow starts & then get hot. Didn't realize that 3-4% was considered, considerable improvement under that type of volume. So lets be accurate.

His FG is up .038%
His 3pt is down .004%
His eFG is up .040%
His TS is up .047%

Ja's FG is .086% better than Doncic's rookie season, .028 better than his 2nd year.
Ja's 3pt is .031% better than Doncic's rookie season, .035% better than his 2nd year.
Ja's eFG is .035% better than Doncic''s rookie season, .015% worse than his 2nd year.
Ja's TS is .023% better than Doncic's rookie season, .024% worse than his 2nd year.

Tell me, how is it that Doncic's eFG & TS are better than Ja's in his 2nd year, when his FG & 3pt percentages are not?. Volume?.

Ja is shooting 602 within 0-3 feet with teams not respecting his 2 apg from 3, they're playing him to drive, where Doncic took 7 3's as a rookie, 9 his 2nd year. Memphis' young team also has less than ideal spacing, so teams crowd the paint on the 160lb drive first guard, where Doncic has considerable size & strength on him.

IMO A bump in 3pt attempts for teams to respect & a little strength training should go a long way for Morant's potential to improve.

You think volume and more defensive attention are good things for a player's shooting averages? First I've heard of that. You can say you've seen many volume shooters shoot their way out of slumps, I've seen plenty of players shoot great on limited attempts with limited defensive attention, shoot garbage on higher volume with more defensive attention and hands in their faces they never had before.

The higher the volume, the more accurately your shooting is going to be represented over the course of an NBA season, because it will flatten out things like hot streaks. Lower volume exaggerates hot streaks (or cold streaks for that matter). If you are going to use law of averages properly.
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Re: Rank these players in terms of who you'd rather build around moving forward 

Post#110 » by e_l_f_o » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:12 am

Luka Doncic
Zion Williamson
Trae Young
Jayson Tatum
Ben Simmons
Ja Morant
Donovan Mitchell
Devin Booker
De'Aaron Fox
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Llull, Llull, Llull!!

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