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There was a giant monster who used to take it to Shaq when he was at LSU his name was Stanley Roberts

Feels like Embiid is the easy answer here. Take him off the 3 point line and park him down low and he's going to get his vs anyone.

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:People are sleeping on Shaq.

I can understand the kids not knowing because they didn’t see it when it happened.

I'm 40, I watched him from his LSU days and he was a spectacle everyone knew about and followed.

Shaq was highly skilled for a big man of that era. Saying he couldn’t shoot farther than 5 feet out is stupid....he didn’t have to!!!

He also couldn't. That's just the facts.

Shaq a rim runner defensive rebounding Center in this NBA would be the stupidest way to use him. Feed that **** monster on the low block and the other teams Centers would foul out in the first half with today’s players and rules.

Except today we know that post ups are poor offense in general. I posted an article talking about how coaches have gotten away from it for that exact reason earlier in the thread. Also rim running was exactly what revived his career with Phx with Dantoni and an example of him in a modern offense. He actually had the highest FG% of his career at 36 years old and made an All NBA team after not making the All Star team and averaging 13ppg the year before or making an all NBA team the 3 years before. Yeah totally stupid.

Had he kept his weight under 3 bills his entire career he would’ve been the GOAT.

We agree on this.

12footrim wrote:

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:People are sleeping on Shaq.

I can understand the kids not knowing because they didn’t see it when it happened.

I'm 40, I watched him from his LSU days and he was a spectacle everyone knew about and followed.

Shaq was highly skilled for a big man of that era. Saying he couldn’t shoot farther than 5 feet out is stupid....he didn’t have to!!!

He also couldn't. That's just the facts.

Shaq a rim runner defensive rebounding Center in this NBA would be the stupidest way to use him. Feed that **** monster on the low block and the other teams Centers would foul out in the first half with today’s players and rules.

Except today we know that post ups are poor offense in general. I posted an article talking about how coaches have gotten away from it for that exact reason earlier in the thread. Also rim running was exactly what revived his career with Phx with Dantoni and an example of him in a modern offense. He actually had the highest FG% of his career at 36 years old and made an All NBA team after not making the All Star team and averaging 13ppg the year before or making an all NBA team the 3 years before. Yeah totally stupid.

Had he kept his weight under 3 bills his entire career he would’ve been the GOAT.

We agree on this.

In today’s NBA The Diesel in his prime would shoot 85-90% In the post and foul out all your bigs. There’s no other role that’s better for him.

Play him with 4 really good shooters and it’s a bloodbath because he’ll be matched up 3ft from the basket against today’s bums.

He also was a very good passer and a willing passer.

You say you watched him but it doesn’t sound like it.

PHX Shaq to bolster your case? Ha - that’s like me using Wizards Jordan as an example to why he’s the GOAT.

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Shaq was highly skilled for a big man of that era. Saying he couldn’t shoot farther than 5 feet out is stupid....he didn’t have to!!!

Actually...he did had to. He averaged only 15 ppg from inside 5 feet during his Lakers years. 12 points per game were scored at a TS% of .476 or lower from outside 5 feet.

who was the fat guy dubbed Baby Shaq?

12footrim wrote:

70sFan wrote:

12footrim wrote:
Well you'd be wrong then. There wasn't much else to do from 1993-2002 than watch sports. No real internet, lame message boards, etc. I watched entire meaningless games where as people today stream the highlights and look up the stats.

Then maybe you don't remember them well?

Maybe you don't, you are obviously older than I am.

I am not, I just watch a lot of old basketball. Are you 22 years old guy whose passion is watching and analyzing post players repertoire?

SmashMouthRod wrote:

SmashMouthRod wrote:A player like him probably wouldnt be as coveted in todays game considering the brute force he played with. His dominance isnt probably viewed the way it should because he didnt always maintain his conditioning; didnt improve his game (mainly his free throw shooting) which probably factored into why he didnt completely dominate an era. Anytime you have teams signing guys who are scrubs just to use their six fouls on a guy; it means they have very little hope of stopping him. He probably would have about 4 additional championships if he made free throws.

A lot of his aggressive post ups would probably be called as offensive fouls or even techs in todays game. In this era teams would game plan to flop at the slightest bump from him in the paint; or sag on him from 12 ft or deeper probably making it significantly harder for him to have the same impact. He had absolutely no range on his jumper which seems to be a must for 1-5 at this point. He did create a lot of spacing with how dominant he was in the paint. Dwight Howard in Orlando similarly was able to create spacing on the floor like Shaq; with defenses focused on loading up to deny easy dunks/layups off isos or alley oops. Obviously Dwight was more iso face up finesse with a hint of power; while Shaq was a bowling ball post player with a hint of finesse.

Cuban_Linx wrote: I already disagree with just about everything you said, but the bolded part specifically I don't understand. Have you completely missed the insane (justified, but still) hype around Zion or something?

You stated that as if Zion is a similar player. They aren't even close to the same player. Shaquille O'Neal was all post up, back to the basket, bowling ball, bully into turnaround short floaters, hook shots or jams in the face of his opponent drawing contact every play. Zion is a more iso face up finesse, spot up shooter that can finish with power. Zion finishes more off rebound put backs, alley-oops or in space on fast breaks. He's probably more comparable to Charles Barkley than Shaq. Teams dont even draft "back to the basket" players anymore to run their offense through. Hell most of the veteran centers in the league now have underdeveloped foot work and post games because those skills aren't appreciated. Everyone wants the big that can space. Jahlil Okafor would start at center somewhere if guys with great footwork and postgames still held the same value.

I stated that as if Zion is a player who was very coveted exactly because of the brute force he played with. Most everything that guy said could easily be disproved just by watching how the entire league drooled over a hyperathletic mini Shaq in Zion who thusfar hasn't even had the chance to show off his skill. It's all brute force and athleticism thusfar and its been very much appreciated.

Since the game isn't played in the post anymore because of rule changes... no, not surprised at all.

12footrim wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

12footrim wrote:
Eric Montross had "soft" hands and great footwork. There is clearly a bigger difference that separates here..

Mark Eaton was likely as strong and big as shaq at least pre monster shaq. Yet he wasn't able to bully ball people like shaq.

Mark Eaton the guy who was a car mechanic,walk on who didn't start playing basketball until 22 years old and averaged 2ppg in college. Yeah, these are the same things. He was so athletic.

Then how about McGee? Or Whiteside?

12footrim wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

12footrim wrote:
Eric Montross had "soft" hands and great footwork. There is clearly a bigger difference that separates here..

Mark Eaton was likely as strong and big as shaq at least pre monster shaq. Yet he wasn't able to bully ball people like shaq.

Mark Eaton the guy who was a car mechanic,walk on who didn't start playing basketball until 22 years old and averaged 2ppg in college. Yeah, these are the same things. He was so athletic.

Then how about McGee? Or Whiteside?

12footrim wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

12footrim wrote:
Eric Montross had "soft" hands and great footwork. There is clearly a bigger difference that separates here..

Mark Eaton was likely as strong and big as shaq at least pre monster shaq. Yet he wasn't able to bully ball people like shaq.

Mark Eaton the guy who was a car mechanic,walk on who didn't start playing basketball until 22 years old and averaged 2ppg in college. Yeah, these are the same things. He was so athletic.

He was one of the biggest and strongest guys ever to play, doesn't matter how he got there. Even just Shaq's passing game would have him in the top 25% of big men all time.

12footrim wrote:

70sFan wrote:

12footrim wrote:
I'm 40 I watched Shaq since LSU. Most of his post moves consisted of bullying a guy 100lbs lighter and dunking it. Which is great but lets not pretend he was skyhooking shots. His game was mostly derived from being a physical beast, so much so that teams just beat up on him trying to stop him with fouls and put him on the line where he was terrible.

No, Shaq had variety of post moves. If you think that he was one dimensional, then we just have to doubt your knowledge about Shaq.

You guys are crazy if you don't acknowledge most of his success was purely from his size strength and athletic ability. It's obvious and even his post "moves" usually derived from putting his big ass into someone or some form of leaning/ elbowing them out of the way first because he had them by 80 or 100lbs or simply jumping higher. There was nothing finesse or shooting about most of his game. He couldn't make a jump shot or anyshot more than 5 feet way. Being bigger and overpowering or jumping higher than them isn't skill.

I don't know what you have against shaq. was he uber big and powerful? Yes. But he had an awesome array of post moves. These post moves are what players like dwight needed.

Shaq was skillful.

12footrim wrote:

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:People are sleeping on Shaq.

I can understand the kids not knowing because they didn’t see it when it happened.

I'm 40, I watched him from his LSU days and he was a spectacle everyone knew about and followed.

Shaq was highly skilled for a big man of that era. Saying he couldn’t shoot farther than 5 feet out is stupid....he didn’t have to!!!

He also couldn't. That's just the facts.

Shaq a rim runner defensive rebounding Center in this NBA would be the stupidest way to use him. Feed that **** monster on the low block and the other teams Centers would foul out in the first half with today’s players and rules.

Except today we know that post ups are poor offense in general. I posted an article talking about how coaches have gotten away from it for that exact reason earlier in the thread. Also rim running was exactly what revived his career with Phx with Dantoni and an example of him in a modern offense. He actually had the highest FG% of his career at 36 years old and made an All NBA team after not making the All Star team and averaging 13ppg the year before or making an all NBA team the 3 years before. Yeah totally stupid.

Had he kept his weight under 3 bills his entire career he would’ve been the GOAT.

We agree on this.

You're 40 and you don't understand the game of basketball. You've proven that consistently throughout this thread. Go sit down and watch cricket. It might be more your speed.

DS17 wrote:

12footrim wrote:

70sFan wrote:No, Shaq had variety of post moves. If you think that he was one dimensional, then we just have to doubt your knowledge about Shaq.

You guys are crazy if you don't acknowledge most of his success was purely from his size strength and athletic ability. It's obvious and even his post "moves" usually derived from putting his big ass into someone or some form of leaning/ elbowing them out of the way first because he had them by 80 or 100lbs or simply jumping higher. There was nothing finesse or shooting about most of his game. He couldn't make a jump shot or anyshot more than 5 feet way. Being bigger and overpowering or jumping higher than them isn't skill.

I don't know what you have against shaq. was he uber big and powerful? Yes. But he had an awesome array of post moves. These post moves are what players like dwight needed.

Shaq was skillful.

Fam. Dwight was so bad that he helped end the Kobe/Shaq beef. Kobe saw first hand the difference between a Shaq and a Big man with Athleticism.

bulliedog8 wrote:Giannis is the closest to Shaq

Giannis is nothing like Shaq. Giannis got physically held by Kawhi. As good a defender as Kawhi is and has been, Shaq would average 45 and 18 if he was guarded by Kawhi.

not really. the only other player similar to Shaq was Wilt

SF_Warriors wrote:He is probably the only guy in the history of the world with that kind of size, athleticism, agility, and speed. Skills-wise, he was a very good ball handler for that size, great passer, great touch/hands, excellent footwork. His physical attributes contributed a lot to his success, but he wasnt unskilled or anything.

But yea, will we ever see a 7 foot guy built like a brick wall who is the strongest player, but who is also the most athletic/agile big man in the nba? Probably not, let alone one with skills.

I agree with most of what you said, but young David Robinson was more athletic and more agile then Shaq (as a basketball player).

Shaq was stronger, more powerful and meaner.

———-

One of Shaq’s greatest attributes was that he embraced being and playing big. He had no qualms about being mean and nasty about it. That is a hard quality to find in really big guys.

Most really big guys spend so much time trying to appear non threatening (in their every day life) that they develop this jolly, doofus like demeanor on and off the basketball court.

...

Note: I absolutely loathe jolly, doofus bigs.

Greyhound wrote:

SF_Warriors wrote:He is probably the only guy in the history of the world with that kind of size, athleticism, agility, and speed. Skills-wise, he was a very good ball handler for that size, great passer, great touch/hands, excellent footwork. His physical attributes contributed a lot to his success, but he wasnt unskilled or anything.

But yea, will we ever see a 7 foot guy built like a brick wall who is the strongest player, but who is also the most athletic/agile big man in the nba? Probably not, let alone one with skills.

I agree with most of what you said, but young David Robinson was more athletic and more agile then Shaq (as a basketball player).

Shaq was stronger, more powerful and meaner.

———-

One of Shaq’s greatest attributes was that he embraced being and playing big. He had no qualms about being mean and nasty about it. That is a hard quality to find in really big guys.

Most really big guys spend so much time trying to appear non threatening (in their every day life) that they develop this jolly, doofus like demeanor on and off the basketball court.

...

Note: I absolutely loathe jolly, doofus bigs.

I waded through this whole thread before getting to this last post and finally this guy gets it.

For those who didn't watch Shaq, first of all, lol on the Embiid comparisons. Embiid isn't half the athlete Shaq was. Was Shaq skilled? He absolutely was. And that skill was put into practice just enough that we all remember it. A nice drop step or a baby hook or a spin move a few times a game. But he didn't consistently deploy that skill. In that way he was more like Barkley. Or Mike Tyson. What Shaq consistently did was aggressively attack his defender by raising his off hand and driving it into whatever happened to be in the way. He walked down other 275 pounders with ease. He made enormous hall of fame humans like David Robinson look like a joke.

And this relentlessness, this quiet resolve was his most underrated quality. Dude was like the Terminator. He wasn't exactly always a smart player, but he didn't ever give up. If he knocked over your league replacement center two times in a row and both times he got called for a charge, Shaq would do the exact same thing the next play. He delivered body shots. He played like a guy whose Army father disciplined him heavily and only allowed him to release his aggression on the basketball court.

It took every bit of Hakeem's skill and savvy to outmatch him, but again, Shaq respected Hakeem. If Shaq didn't respect you like The Admiral or viewed you as a rival like Mourning, it was war. So both things are true. Shaquille O'Neal was a very skilled and talented player, but mostly he tried to dunk on everyone.

Yea people saying he had no skills are way off. He was not a good shooters, other wise he had plenty of skills (for his position/size).

People see his size, strength and athleticism and assume that, because he scored in the paint, there was no skill involved. But that's more the position that is physically demanding than anything else.

Everyone considers Hakeem skilled but without his quickness, fluidity, coordination and strength he wouldnt be able to do his moves.

It is the same with Shaq. He had good touch, he was good passer, good ball handler for his size etc, but, like Hakeem, he needed the athleticism to make it work at that level.