Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons

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Re: Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons 

Post#21 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:33 am

Blazers record when Oden+Roy+Aldridge were all healthy and playing 50-12.

Oden was exactly what Portland needed and if he stayed healthy I have no doubt in my mind that trio could have won a championship together.

There was only one GM In the entire **** league that wanted to take KD over Oden when they were given the choice. So this revised history that Portland were morons for drafting him is using immense hindsight.
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Greg Oden 

Post#22 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:46 am

monopoman wrote:Blazers record when Oden+Roy+Aldridge were all healthy and playing 50-12.

Oden was exactly what Portland needed and if he stayed healthy I have no doubt in my mind that trio could have won a championship together.


The stat doesn't take into account that Greg Oden was splitting time at center with Joel Przybilla in his rookie season.

Or that Portland was 13-8 in Oden's second season before he blew out his patella and went 37-24 without him.

Or that Portland was near the bottom of the NBA in rebounding and blocked shots during Oden's playing time.

Portland wasn't going to win a championship with a center with career averages of 9.4 points and 7.3 rebounds per game, which is what Oden produced in Portland. Only on RealGM would someone think that.
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Re: Greg Oden 

Post#23 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:55 am

Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:Blazers record when Oden+Roy+Aldridge were all healthy and playing 50-12.

Oden was exactly what Portland needed and if he stayed healthy I have no doubt in my mind that trio could have won a championship together.


The stat doesn't take into account that Greg Oden was splitting time at center with Joel Przybilla in his rookie season.

Or that Portland was 13-8 in Oden's second season before he blew out his patella and went 37-24 without him.

Or that Portland was near the bottom of the NBA in rebounding and blocked shots during Oden's playing time.

Portland wasn't going to win a championship with a center with career averages of 9.4 points and 7.3 rebounds per game, which is what Oden produced in Portland. Only on RealGM would someone think that.


Pretty tough ask to get the best from a player that never got to string together many games, most guys take 20-30 games to get into rhythm and start to improve their game. Oden had one season where he played 61 games the other season in Portland he had 21.

You act like every player is showing their full potential early in their career and that injuries and time off the court weren't derailing him. Must be nice to live in such a silly world where every player is at their best at all times and no circumstances ever play in for any of it.

The guy was also only 22 years old in his last season in Portland again plenty of players look much better at age 25 or 26 vs. age 22.
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Re: Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons 

Post#24 » by ThumbsUpBaby » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:00 am

The hype around Oden was incredibly high. He was considered the next big thing for big men (amongst Russell, Shaq, Wilt, Olajuwon). I have no doubt Oden would've gone first.
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Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#25 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 am

monopoman wrote:You act like every player is showing their full potential early in their career and that injuries and time off the court weren't derailing him. Must be nice to live in such a silly world where every player is at their best at all times and no circumstances ever play in for any of it.


Maybe because I once covered the NBA as a journalist and saw players such as David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, a young Shaquille O'Neal in the league. The team I covered had a pretty good center as well (Alonzo Mourning). Not to mention I did see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone and other top centers play growing up in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Greg Oden wasn't that good of a player. He was foul prone, had a very rudimentary offensive game, could only score on offensive rebounds and was deemed for having potential leg injuries before he came into the NBA.

I can speak for myself on what I saw of Oden. The player with whom I compared Oden is Tree Rollins.

Lo and behold, Oden basically was Tree Rollins, except Rollins had a much longer career. Please name the last great NBA center who started his career splitting time his rookie season with a player as nondescript as Joel Przybilla.

So yes, it is nice to have good judgment.
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Re: Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons 

Post#26 » by J___Av » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:09 am

Lalouie wrote:
cujolll wrote:If all of these former #1 overall picks were in the same draft, who would go number 1 overall and why? What would make that individual standout in such a talented draft class to go # ? I think Oden would go first due to size, athleticism, and defensive prowess. Your thoughts please.


in today's game it would probably be AD, although i could easily be convinced it should be oden.

even though there's a move away from the center it is still thought of as a franchise changing position because a great center is rare. if you are looking at and of the other four positions, it would have to be a multi-skilled player because that's what the other positions demand. on that criteria alone, zion and simmons have more holes.

ad/oden
zion
simmons

i prefer zion's demeanor. simmons yaps too much


Are people forgetting already how hyped Zion was this year? He was literally the most hyped player since Lebron. He would (deservedly or not) easily go #1 over anyone else
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#27 » by GordanFreeman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:10 am

Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:You act like every player is showing their full potential early in their career and that injuries and time off the court weren't derailing him. Must be nice to live in such a silly world where every player is at their best at all times and no circumstances ever play in for any of it.


Maybe because I once covered the NBA as a journalist and saw players such as David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, a young Shaquille O'Neal in the league. The team I covered had a pretty good center as well (Alonzo Mourning). Not to mention I did see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone and other top centers play growing up in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Greg Oden wasn't that good of a player. He was foul prone, had a very rudimentary offensive game, could only score on offensive rebounds and was deemed for having potential leg injuries before he came into the NBA.

I can speak for myself on what I saw of Oden. The player with whom I compared Oden is Tree Rollins.

Lo and behold, Oden basically was Tree Rollins, except Rollins had a much longer career. Please name the last great NBA center who started his career splitting time his rookie season with a player as nondescript as Joel Przybilla.

So yes, it is nice to have good judgment.


Oden was being compared to Robinson/Russell and other greats by every other analyst before he was drafted. He was the consensus number 1 pick. These are facts.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#28 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:19 am

GordanFreeman wrote:Oden was being compared to Robinson/Russell and other greats by every other analyst before he was drafted. He was the consensus number 1 pick. These are facts.


Not everyone shared that opinion.

There certainly was nothing in Greg Oden's game that resembled David Robinson's game. In fact, Oden was the opposite of Robinson -- Oden was a bulky center who certainly did not have The Admiral's athletic ability or skill set (Robinson was more like a small forward in that respect).

Oden had much more in common with an Andre Drummond, save Drummond may have been more fluid coming out of college. We're not even discussing the potential for massive injuries that were evident from the beginning with Oden. The Oden you saw in Portland was more or less the Oden that was at Ohio State.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#29 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:20 am

GordanFreeman wrote:
Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:You act like every player is showing their full potential early in their career and that injuries and time off the court weren't derailing him. Must be nice to live in such a silly world where every player is at their best at all times and no circumstances ever play in for any of it.


Maybe because I once covered the NBA as a journalist and saw players such as David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, a young Shaquille O'Neal in the league. The team I covered had a pretty good center as well (Alonzo Mourning). Not to mention I did see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone and other top centers play growing up in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Greg Oden wasn't that good of a player. He was foul prone, had a very rudimentary offensive game, could only score on offensive rebounds and was deemed for having potential leg injuries before he came into the NBA.

I can speak for myself on what I saw of Oden. The player with whom I compared Oden is Tree Rollins.

Lo and behold, Oden basically was Tree Rollins, except Rollins had a much longer career. Please name the last great NBA center who started his career splitting time his rookie season with a player as nondescript as Joel Przybilla.

So yes, it is nice to have good judgment.


Oden was being compared to Robinson/Russell and other greats by every other analyst before he was drafted. He was the consensus number 1 pick. These are facts.


Nah, bro the guy is a journalist so he knows everything and he is the only person the planet to see Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson play.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#30 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:26 am

monopoman wrote:Nah, bro the guy is a journalist so he knows everything and he is the only person the planet to see Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson play.


It's apparent you thought Greg Oden was going to be a player and now you can't process the idea that he wasn't.

If you thought a foul-prone, often-injured, plodding center with limited skills who split time with Joel Pryzbila as a rookie was going to be something along the lines of David Robinson, then that explains a lot (such as a poor evaluator of talent).

I saw Oden in high school, college and the NBA. He wasn't that impressive to me, he was foul-prone, very inconsistent and (as proven in college and the NBA) could not stay healthy. Anything else?
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#31 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:30 am

Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:Russell and other greats by every other analyst before he was drafted. He was the consensus number 1 pick. These are facts.


Nah, bro the guy is a journalist so he knows everything and he is the only person the planet to see Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson play.


It's apparent you thought Greg Oden was going to be a player and now you can't process the idea that he wasn't. If you thought a foul-prone, often-injured center with limited skill who split time with Joel Pryzbila was going to be something more than Tree Rollins, then that explains a lot (just as a poor evaluator of talent).[/quote]

It was me and every other journalist and GM that thought he was going to be a great player,

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1188523-remembering-why-the-portland-trail-blazers-chose-greg-oden-over-kevin-durant

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Greg-Oden-237/

https://www.thedraftreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3127&Itemid=5

Also when comparing Oden's 61 game season in 21 minutes his numbers were pretty impressive he was not taking many shots and still recorded 8.9 points a game. They were being careful with him not trying to push him to play 35 MPG since they were trying to ease him back into the game.

Ewing had 20 PPG in his rookie season but guess what he took way more shots to do it, Ewing needed 14 more minutes a night to average 2 more rebounds per game. Quit acting like everyone in the history of the NBA is on your side dude you are being ridiculously pedantic.
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Re: Greg Oden 

Post#32 » by Dupp » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:41 am

Najee12 wrote:
King4Day wrote:
Dupp wrote:Oden is the most overrated prospect of all time. Taking him over KD is one of the worst draft choices ever even if he was healthy.


Hindsight says they should have taken KD but I don't think anyone pegged him to be a superstar. Oden averaged nearly a double/double in college,was the perfect fit next to Brandon Roy and was coming in at a time where the leagues bigs (Shaq, Ben Wallace, etc.) were on the downside. So Oden could have kept the era of bigs going and potentially been at the top there.


I saw Kevin Durant and Greg Oden play in high school, and Durant was by far the better player. Oden was incredibly foul prone, had no real offensive skill outside of the paint and had a questionable motor when he was at Ohio State.

Oden had games where he would put up 7 points and 4 rebounds with four fouls in 11 minutes, so his 15 points and 9 rebounds per game average had wild swings. Then when training doctors looked at Oden's legs before the 2007 draft and saw he had the potential for suffering major leg injuries, he was radioactive to me.



People get pissy about Oden for whatever reason but he at no point was a bette prospect than KD
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Re: Greg Oden 

Post#33 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:43 am

Dupp wrote:
Najee12 wrote:
King4Day wrote:
Hindsight says they should have taken KD but I don't think anyone pegged him to be a superstar. Oden averaged nearly a double/double in college,was the perfect fit next to Brandon Roy and was coming in at a time where the leagues bigs (Shaq, Ben Wallace, etc.) were on the downside. So Oden could have kept the era of bigs going and potentially been at the top there.


I saw Kevin Durant and Greg Oden play in high school, and Durant was by far the better player. Oden was incredibly foul prone, had no real offensive skill outside of the paint and had a questionable motor when he was at Ohio State.

Oden had games where he would put up 7 points and 4 rebounds with four fouls in 11 minutes, so his 15 points and 9 rebounds per game average had wild swings. Then when training doctors looked at Oden's legs before the 2007 draft and saw he had the potential for suffering major leg injuries, he was radioactive to me.



People get pissy about Oden for whatever reason but he at no point was a bette prospect than KD


Tell that to every other GM in the NBA at the time except one, and to every journalist in the time when 95% of them though Oden was better. KD was a skinny kid when he entered the league that couldn't bench press 185 pounds once.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#34 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:55 am

monopoman wrote:Also when comparing Oden's 61 game season in 21 minutes his numbers were pretty impressive he was not taking many shots and still recorded 8.9 points a game. They were being careful with him not trying to push him to play 35 MPG since they were trying to ease him back into the game.

Ewing had 20 PPG in his rookie season but guess what he took way more shots to do it, Ewing needed 14 more minutes a night to average 2 more rebounds per game. Quit acting like everyone in the history of the NBA is on your side dude you are being ridiculous pendantic.


Of course, scouts wouldn't have projected Greg Oden to be the No. 1 pick in the draft if they did not think he had some potential. Personally, I didn't agree with what they saw in Oden. It's not the first time general managers have been wrong in evaluating players (Oden is hardly the first prospect deemed with star potential that scouts struck out).

The part you seem to miss is Oden wasn't good enough to warrant more than 21 minutes per game as a rookie, in no small part because of his propensity to pick up fouls. Just in a rookie season where he played only 61 games, he had eight games where he had five or more fouls in less than 24 minutes. Patrick Ewing played more minutes because he was good enough to play more minutes, even when having to pair on the court with another center in Bill Cartwright.

Oden certainly was not comparable to Ewing in skill; even at a young age, Ewing displayed the shooting touch and range he expanded later in his career (the skill scouts did not see Ewing as having when he came out of college). Oden had no offensive skill beyond a putback of an offensive rebound. In fact, Oden was not that much different from when he was in high school. Outside of being black and seven feet tall, there is no comparison between Ewing and Oden.

I understand it may be a shock to you that people do think independently, but there have been other people in this thread and other places who were not impressed with Oden. I never said I was the only person -- only that, unlike you, I can think for myself. Not everyone was 8 years old and was impressed with Oden like you were.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#35 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:57 am

Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:Also when comparing Oden's 61 game season in 21 minutes his numbers were pretty impressive he was not taking many shots and still recorded 8.9 points a game. They were being careful with him not trying to push him to play 35 MPG since they were trying to ease him back into the game.

Ewing had 20 PPG in his rookie season but guess what he took way more shots to do it, Ewing needed 14 more minutes a night to average 2 more rebounds per game. Quit acting like everyone in the history of the NBA is on your side dude you are being ridiculous pendantic.


Of course, scouts wouldn't have projected Greg Oden to be the No. 1 pick in the draft if they did not think he had some potential. Personally, I didn't agree with what they saw in Oden. It's not the first time general managers have been wrong in evaluating players (Oden is hardly the first prospect deemed with star potential that scouts struck out).

The part you seem to miss is Oden wasn't good enough to warrant more than 21 minutes per game as a rookie, in no small part because of his propensity to pick up fouls. Just in a rookie season where he played only 61 games, he had eight games where he had five or more fouls in less than 24 minutes. Patrick Ewing played more minutes because he was good enough to play more minutes, even when having to pair on the court with another center in Bill Cartwright.

Oden certainly was not comparable to Ewing in skill; even at a young age, Ewing displayed the shooting touch and range he expanded later in his career (the skill scouts did not see Ewing as having when he came out of college). Oden had no offensive skill beyond a putback of an offensive rebound. In fact, Oden was not that much different from when he was in high school. Outside of being black and seven feet tall, there is no comparison between Ewing and Oden.

I understand it may be a shock to you that people do think independently, but there have been other people in this thread and other places who were not impressed with Oden. I never said I was the only person -- only that, unlike you, I can think for myself. Not everyone was 8 years old and was impressed with Oden like you were.


Whatever dude I am done with this bull you act like what you think is 100% fact quit acting like your opinion reflects on everyone else and everyone agreed with you. I was also old enough to drink when Oden was drafted dude, I don't appreciate you claiming I was **** 8 years old when he was drafted.

Anyways keep rambling on about how you were 100% right and you knew he was going to have major injury problems. His foul issues are being vastly overblown and most big men struggle with foul trouble early in their career. He was partially being limited to 21 MPG because of his injury history.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#36 » by Clay Davis » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:03 am

Najee12 wrote:
monopoman wrote:You act like every player is showing their full potential early in their career and that injuries and time off the court weren't derailing him. Must be nice to live in such a silly world where every player is at their best at all times and no circumstances ever play in for any of it.


Maybe because I once covered the NBA as a journalist and saw players such as David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, a young Shaquille O'Neal in the league. The team I covered had a pretty good center as well (Alonzo Mourning). Not to mention I did see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone and other top centers play growing up in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Greg Oden wasn't that good of a player. He was foul prone, had a very rudimentary offensive game, could only score on offensive rebounds and was deemed for having potential leg injuries before he came into the NBA.

I can speak for myself on what I saw of Oden. The player with whom I compared Oden is Tree Rollins.

Lo and behold, Oden basically was Tree Rollins, except Rollins had a much longer career. Please name the last great NBA center who started his career splitting time his rookie season with a player as nondescript as Joel Przybilla.

So yes, it is nice to have good judgment.

Well let's just shut the drawer on this argument because everyone knows there's no higher standard for credibility than being a journalist.
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Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#37 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:04 am

Dupp wrote:People get pissy about Oden for whatever reason but he at no point was a better prospect than KD


Apparently, they bought into the hype about Greg Oden being more than what he was and assume everyone else did, as if people are not capable of independent thought.

I also don't understand the argument of "Well, the GMs liked Oden more" when the NBA still had the mindset of "a good center prospect was the most likely path to winning an NBA title." If a center and a wing player were seen as equal, teams were going to take the center first just on principle. Even if the wing player is seen as being slightly better, teams were going to take the center more often than not.

It's the reason why players such as Michael Olowokandi and Andrew Bogut went first in their drafts -- it wasn't they were seen as being better than the wing players in their drafts, but they went first because of the adage "all things being equal or close, take the big man before the wing player."
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Re: Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons 

Post#38 » by magicman1978 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:04 am

why is post-micro-fracture surgery Oden playing after sitting out for a year and not being in top shape being used as proof of anything? He hurt his foot and then his other knee that season as well so he never got into playing shape. He wasn't the same after the knee surgery.
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Re: Greg Oden = Tree Rollins 

Post#39 » by Najee12 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:05 am

Clay Davis wrote:Well let's just shut the drawer on this argument because everyone knows there's no higher standard for credibility than being a journalist.


It comes only second to a teen-ager on his phone typing about the NBA while working at a pizza shop, right?
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Re: Greg Oden vs Anthony Davis vs Zion Williamson vs Ben Simmons 

Post#40 » by monopoman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:06 am

magicman1978 wrote:why is post-micro-fracture surgery Oden playing after sitting out for a year and not being in top shape being used as proof of anything? He hurt his foot and then his other knee that season as well.


Because this guy had a magical crystal ball and knew the future, he knew Oden would have that injury but for some reason he hasn't used that same crystal ball to win the lottery I guess he wants to be fair to other players.

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