Will we ever see a player airball 4 times in an elimination game like Kobe ever again?

[Han Solo]

Yo discuss whatever you wish I suppose but out of decency, can we let the ink dry on the man’s death certificate before we continue to try to tear down his legacy? Like it hasn’t even been a month or two and I’m almost sure this is the fifth of sixth thread aimed at diminishing Kobe Bryant in the astoundingly short period of time since he was tragically killed.

And? Kobes death was a tragedy but its been two months already. People should able to discuss normal basketball discourse without this whining.

People like you are what’s ruined this forum.

[Pennebaker]

Watch on YouTube

I feel like in this social media age, any player that did this would get absolutely murdered and may never live this down. Especially any high profile player.

Yeah well he was a brick master. Missing shots was what he was best at.

Kobe career bricks: 14,481
Kobe career makes: 11,719

If you've been watching Kobe all these years then you've seen him miss almost 3,000 more times than you've seen him make.

30,000 Point Club - Lowest FG%:

1. Kobe Bryant .447
2. Dirk Nowitzki .471
3. Michael Jordan .497
4. LeBron James .504
5. Julius Erving .506
6. Karl Malone .516
7. Wilt Chamberlain .540
8. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar .559

I maintain that Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history.

His status in the minds of his biggest supporters (GOAT/Top 3/Top 5) does not match who he actually was (Top 15/Top 20).

[norcocredo]

No because no one would have the nerve to keep trying. They would go and hide in a corner because of embarrassment.

He was a rookie and some people are acting like he did this in his prime.

Go read Shaq’s book ‘Shaq Talks Back’ for some background on those shots and the game.

[Chanel Bomber]

Watch on YouTube

I feel like in this social media age, any player that did this would get absolutely murdered and may never live this down. Especially any high profile player.

Yeah well he was a brick master. Missing shots was what he was best at.

Kobe career bricks: 14,481
Kobe career makes: 11,719

If you've been watching Kobe all these years then you've seen him miss almost 3,000 more times than you've seen him make.

30,000 Point Club - Lowest FG%:

1. Kobe Bryant .447
2. Dirk Nowitzki .471
3. Michael Jordan .497
4. LeBron James .504
5. Julius Erving .506
6. Karl Malone .516
7. Wilt Chamberlain .540
8. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar .559

I maintain that Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history.

His status in the minds of his biggest supporters (GOAT/Top 3/Top 5) does not match who he actually was (Top 15/Top 20).

I highly value scoring efficiency but there's more than TS% let alone basic FG% when judging greatness. A lot of Kobe critics or haters also conveniently forget certain nuances of the game when judging Kobe. His playmaking skills, his masterful ability to dictate pace, how he elevated the level of play of certain teammates (most notably how Gasol transformed playing alongside Kobe). His defense earlier in his career, which was lockdown. Most people have him in the 10-15 range anyway, unless you're including casual fans with limited knowledge of the game or players who played against him.

[Pennebaker]

Watch on YouTube

I feel like in this social media age, any player that did this would get absolutely murdered and may never live this down. Especially any high profile player.

Yeah well he was a brick master. Missing shots was what he was best at.

Kobe career bricks: 14,481
Kobe career makes: 11,719

If you've been watching Kobe all these years then you've seen him miss almost 3,000 more times than you've seen him make.

30,000 Point Club - Lowest FG%:

1. Kobe Bryant .447
2. Dirk Nowitzki .471
3. Michael Jordan .497
4. LeBron James .504
5. Julius Erving .506
6. Karl Malone .516
7. Wilt Chamberlain .540
8. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar .559

I maintain that Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history.

His status in the minds of his biggest supporters (GOAT/Top 3/Top 5) does not match who he actually was (Top 15/Top 20).

I highly value scoring efficiency but there's more than TS% let alone basic FG% when judging greatness. A lot of Kobe critics or haters also conveniently forget certain nuances of the game when judging Kobe. His playmaking skills, his masterful ability to dictate pace, how he elevated the level of play of certain teammates (most notably how Gasol transformed playing alongside Kobe). His defense earlier in his career, which was lockdown. Most people have him in the 10-15 range anyway, unless you're including casual fans with limited knowledge of the game or players who played against him.

Well I completely disagree with that. I'm all about nuance but in this thread we're talking about bricks and he was the GOAT brick tosser. That's just one reason for why he's overrated - not the entire reason.

[Dupp]

:lol:


No one has a more fabricated clutch image than Kobe

Who is clutch today in your mind? And besides Mike or Bird (take them as givens), who was clutch to you in the 80s/90s? Gimme a few names for each, not gonna argue w/ your picks. Just wanna get a sense of what you consider legit clutch image vs Kobe's. I know Kobe missed a lot of clutch shots, but he made a lot. People don't consider the misses when they judge that stuff, by and large. And it could be a tough rep to get even if you actually are clutch. EG Vince. He had plenty of clutch shots, but he's not on most peoples' top 5 list for whatever reason.

I don’t think Kobe’s unclutch I just think he has an image that far exceeds reality.


This particular instance when he was young is meaningless I just found it amusing a thread was made of it

[EAS Law]

Haha I mean I’m not even a major Kobe fan in terms of basketball and if I didn’t know better, I’d swear Kobe Bryant was a scrub based on these comments. Are you guys like 15?

Scoffing at anything a guy with 5 championships, multiple All Star selections, 1st team NBA, MVP did in a career is just awkward. The gymnastics people will pull to make a bad argument is mind-blowing.

[InTheNBADraft]

Honestly, his career is a far more fascinating story with those airballs than without them. I'll never understand people who desire their heroes to be perfect. Who wants to hear a story where the main character was morally perfect and never experienced adversity and was always successful? That sounds like the most boring story ever. Perfection is BORING. Show me a hero who always makes the correct decision, and I'll show you someone I can't learn anything from.

[Dupp]

:lol:


No one has a more fabricated clutch image than Kobe

There used to be a website called NBA Miner that had a formula and a ranking of every NBA player based on:

"Clutch Time: During the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points"

Kobe was ranked in different seasons: 10th, 2nd, 16th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 2nd

He was consistently top 5 in the entire NBA . . .year after year

If you watched most of his games, like I did, it wasn't uncommon to see him win games with his scoring and defense in the 4th quarter. It's not all about the last second shot, although he had a lot of those go in as well.

These can't be real numbers because realgm says Kobe wasn't a top 15 player all time and Kobe was never clutch EVER.

Realgm has never had the consensus Kobe isn’t top 15 player. He’s probably ranked around 12 in most votes and all time project.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

I'm actually surprised Kobe was able to take those shots at that time. In his rookie season Kobe was a sub who scored 7 points a game. Against the Jazz his shooting games were 1 for 7, 1 for 1(only played 11 minutes in a 2 pt game), 3-7, 3-9 and of course the game 5 airball game he went 4-14 and 0-6 from 3. It is interesting a sub who struggled shooting would be given the green light to take such pivotal shots.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

Eh, I mean he was what? 18-19 at the time ? He went on to become one of the clutchest players of all time after that. From the players perspective, even in today’s game, if their mind is resilient enough they can overcome something like that also.

He was very mixed in the clutch. He wasn't great in game 7s, he has had historic chokes like in Game 2 against OKC in 2012, and of course he was definitely not one you would want to "take the last shot." There were some great moments off his misses though. The Horry shot is famous and in 2010 in their last title run Gasol put back a Kobe miss for the game winner and Artest got an Artest airball and made the game winner. In the 2009 Finals, it was Derek Fisher who dribbled down and buried the clutch 3 to send it to OT in game 4, not Kobe.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

Eh, I mean he was what? 18-19 at the time ? He went on to become one of the clutchest players of all time after that. From the players perspective, even in today’s game, if their mind is resilient enough they can overcome something like that also.

He was very mixed in the clutch. He wasn't great in game 7s, he has had historic chokes like in Game 2 against OKC in 2012, and of course he was definitely not one you would want to "take the last shot." There were some great moments off his misses though. The Horry shot is famous and in 2010 in their last title run Gasol put back a Kobe miss for the game winner and Artest got an Artest airball and made the game winner. In the 2009 Finals, it was Derek Fisher who dribbled down and buried the clutch 3 to send it to OT in game 4, not Kobe.

I’m familiar with Kobe’s work, and if that’s how you look at it, that’s fine, but most players, coaches, teams, want anyone but Kobe shooting the last shot. Saying it’s a historic choke (game 2 vs OKC) is preposterous; they let a lead get away from them.

We’ve seen Kobe hit game winners, game tying shots, clutch shots, dozens — if not, hundreds — of times over. In my book, he’s top 5-6 clutch all time. Other people don’t feel the same way and that’s cool, but those narratives you’re shelling out are reaches.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

Eh, I mean he was what? 18-19 at the time ? He went on to become one of the clutchest players of all time after that. From the players perspective, even in today’s game, if their mind is resilient enough they can overcome something like that also.

He was very mixed in the clutch. He wasn't great in game 7s, he has had historic chokes like in Game 2 against OKC in 2012, and of course he was definitely not one you would want to "take the last shot." There were some great moments off his misses though. The Horry shot is famous and in 2010 in their last title run Gasol put back a Kobe miss for the game winner and Artest got an Artest airball and made the game winner. In the 2009 Finals, it was Derek Fisher who dribbled down and buried the clutch 3 to send it to OT in game 4, not Kobe.

I’m familiar with Kobe’s work, and if that’s how you look at it, that’s fine, but most players, coaches, teams, want anyone but Kobe shooting the last shot. Saying it’s a historic choke (game 2 vs OKC) is preposterous; they let a lead get away from them.

We’ve seen Kobe hit game winners, game tying shots, clutch shots, dozens — if not, hundreds — of times over. In my book, he’s top 5-6 clutch all time. Other people don’t feel the same way and that’s cool, but those narratives you’re shelling out are reaches.

How was that game not a historic choke? If Lebron choked like that at the end of a big game with his team up 7 this thread would bring it up as often as they bring up the 2011 finals.

[Bornstellar]

Yo discuss whatever you wish I suppose but out of decency, can we let the ink dry on the man’s death certificate before we continue to try to tear down his legacy? Like it hasn’t even been a month or two and I’m almost sure this is the fifth of sixth thread aimed at diminishing Kobe Bryant in the astoundingly short period of time since he was tragically killed.

And? Kobes death was a tragedy but its been two months already. People should able to discuss normal basketball discourse without this whining.

People like you are what’s ruined this forum.

Grow up dude. This thread actually has legit basketball discussion going on now. Like I said there's no reason this can't be discussed just because Kobe passed away

[L3GEND4RY]

And? Kobes death was a tragedy but its been two months already. People should able to discuss normal basketball discourse without this whining.

Only this isn’t a normal discussion and the intent is clear. But damn, so edgy and dark. Very cool. Very impressed.

Not about being edgy but hey I'm impressed by your use of retired reddit comebacks.

Point is yeah he died it was sad but that has nothing to do with the thread. People should be able to talk about Kobe like they did before now. Especially since theres a pandemic going on. Sorry dude but your role model isn't the most important story right now

Sorry dude, but you’re being a complete tool.

[Dr Aki]

Imma leave this here

Watch on YouTube

[Sofia]

Yo discuss whatever you wish I suppose but out of decency, can we let the ink dry on the man’s death certificate before we continue to try to tear down his legacy? Like it hasn’t even been a month or two and I’m almost sure this is the fifth of sixth thread aimed at diminishing Kobe Bryant in the astoundingly short period of time since he was tragically killed.

The frequency of these threads I would say is probably lower than before the incident.

That being said, you’ve said it had only been one or two months. How long is the appropriate wait time?

[Thabo Sefolosha]

don know how this is still open; clearly a bait thread

[J___Av]

Eh, I mean he was what? 18-19 at the time ? He went on to become one of the clutchest players of all time after that. From the players perspective, even in today’s game, if their mind is resilient enough they can overcome something like that also.

Kobe being one of the most clutch players ever is one of the biggest myths in sports history. Nothing backs up him being one of the most clutch ever. He shoots a VERY low % in clutch situations and his numbers take a decent dip in the playoffs, game 7s, elimination games, the finals etc..

[Joao Saraiva]

Kobe had a strong mentality. With 2 horrible misses I doubt many players would even try it a third time.

About being clutch... Kobe's reputation is much bigger than his results. He's not the guy who has a ton of game winners in the playoffs, he's not the guy with the best % in those situations.

However, his stats also put him lower than he should be if you only take % into account. Kobe had the ability of hitting really difficult shots and he'd certainly create the space most times without turning the ball over. With such difficulty, and with him always wanting to take the shot, it's just natural he's not hitting a stupid good % of them. But if you have a few seconds to give the ball to a guy and shoot... Kobe is definitely the guy who can hit a difficult shot.

I'd say Kobe was clutch. Not among the most clutch players in history (when I say this I mean not in the elite of elite, not comparable to Michael or LeBron), but still clutch. Definitely way above average.