ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1181 » by Dan Z » Fri May 22, 2020 6:15 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:The villain was/is Pippen.


How so?
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1182 » by dWadeOwnzYou » Fri May 22, 2020 8:49 pm

Now it looks looks like Sam Smith had just came out to say that Jordan had "blatantly" lied on a few things during the Last Dance documentary. Anyone know the details of this?
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1183 » by Ugly Duckling » Sat May 23, 2020 3:22 am

Yuri36 wrote:
Ugly Duckling wrote:1.) MJ GOAT no question
2.) Pip slightly overrated - This is a big one. He's one of my favorite players of all time, but people calling him the best 2 man of all time are forgetting KAJ/Robertson (way before my time, but I know who they are), Shaq/Kobe, Magic/KAJ and LBJ/Wade. Pip was an elite defender and the best tomahawk jammer of all time, but that's about it. He wasn't close to any of these guys in terms of his overall game. He couldn't really handle the rock that well. He's overblown because all eyes were always on Mike, which left him wide open a lot. He's not even one of the top 10 wings of all time, which further solidifies MJ as the GOAT
3.) Rodman fascinating
4.) Kerr amazing
5.) Phil good, but mysterious/selfish
6.) Krause good, but insecure
7.) Reinsdorf terrible, needs to be bought out
8.) Bulls would've won 9 straight had Mike never left and run it back one more time


Yeah, Rodman was as you could predict one of the big highlights of this documentary.
And you can see he was way more intelligent than you would believe watching him at first.


Aside from his defense and rebounding, the things I loved about him was his being himself and his vulnerability. Dude so real
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1184 » by DirtyDez » Sat May 23, 2020 3:38 am

Should’ve been 11 episodes.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1185 » by prolific passer » Sat May 23, 2020 4:12 am

Jordan and Rodman mastered the ability to stay up late before a game and still come out at perform.....in their mid 30s.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1186 » by Sgt Major » Sat May 23, 2020 9:23 am

I've seeing people with new Jordan stuff everywhere. Even I got a new shorts yesterday, my brother bought me this one: https://www.2win.se/bilder/artiklar/zoom/BQ8392-100_4.jpg
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1187 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 pm

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/michael-jordan-told-blatant-lie-about-bulls-potential-return-for-seventh-title-says-jordan-rules-author/amp/

Sam Smith calls out most of MJ bull

As expected.. and ringing very true to what the brave few of us alluded to when this whole fellatio incident began - "The Last Ego Trip" is just something that's based on true events, with most of the details fabricated to earn $ and add on to the MJ mystique.. it's akin to the stories attributed to Wilt.

Sam Smith wrote:"That was a complete and blatant lie by Michael," Smith said of Jordan wanting to return for the 1998-99 season. "There were several things in the documentary that I saw, I would know, that he made up or he lied about. They weren't major things, but it was like when a TV movie comes on and they say, 'this is based on a true story.' That's what that was. It was based on a true story.

"The pizza thing -- the poison -- that was complete nonsense," Smith said. "There were a couple of other things like that I won't go into. They weren't major, but the thing at the end [about Jordan wanting to return for the 1998-99 season] was a complete, blatant lie. I know what happened.

Jerry says, 'You know, it's a lockout. It might last a while. Just wait, maybe Phil changes his mind. Who knows what's going on, there's no hurry,' " Smith said. "[Jordan says] 'No, I'm done, I'm done. I don't wanna be around these guys anymore. I had to carry us down the stretch. Pippen couldn't play in Game 6 [of the 1998 Finals] because his back was hurt, he's limping around. Dennis is crazy.' If Michael wanted to stay, there was enough team to stay with.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1188 » by Sofia » Sat May 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Just finished it.

In the last 5 minutes he says he was still at his peak because although he is older, he has mental strength now. He’s as dominant as he was in 91.

He also says he can’t accept the ownership not wanting to pursue a 7th title.

My question, why is one of the alleged most competitive people of all time retiring at his peak, just because he didn’t get to play with Scott, Dennis and Phil?

Surely if he was truly at his peak like he claims, why would he not sign elsewhere? He can’t accept management not wanting to chase a title, but it’s fine for him to quit because he’s not playing with the players and coach he wants? I don’t get it.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1189 » by HMFFL » Sat May 23, 2020 2:49 pm

Michael Jordan rookie PSA 10 just sold for a record 99k.

Five years ago a now ex girlfriend of mine told me she needed a 20k wedding ring if that time came. I laughed and said, I need MJ's PSA 10 rookie card that was going for 10k at the time. It went for 10k for many years and I had intended to buy one eventually but I waited to long.

A couple of years ago the card jumped to 20k and before the Last Dance aired it went to 40k.

This week a record 99k.



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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1190 » by Jurassic_Park » Sat May 23, 2020 4:34 pm



really great breakdown. Released in April 2020, already has over 1M views
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1191 » by carrrnuttt » Sun May 24, 2020 1:33 am

Jurassic_Park wrote:

really great breakdown. Released in April 2020, already has over 1M views


Jesus Christ, that dude just put a whole army of BronStans on suicide watch.

Someone please go check on Pennebaker and Rodzilla.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1192 » by Hroz » Sun May 24, 2020 1:45 am

While I think Jordan is the GOAT.
I think this doco was little more than a propoganda piece.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1193 » by Optms » Sun May 24, 2020 1:55 am

prolific passer wrote:Jordan and Rodman mastered the ability to stay up late before a game and still come out at perform.....in their mid 30s.


Wouldn't even be surprised if Rodman only worked on an 1 hours sleep to bang around in the post for 35 to 40 minutes in game. Makes today's modern star look even softer. Load management. These guys seem to be doing their best not to get rest.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1194 » by Air Apparent » Sun May 24, 2020 3:18 am

carrrnuttt wrote:
Jurassic_Park wrote:

really great breakdown. Released in April 2020, already has over 1M views


Jesus Christ, that dude just put a whole army of BronStans on suicide watch.

Someone please go check on Pennebaker and Rodzilla.


that video won't break them, they are trollier than that
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1195 » by redbak » Sun May 24, 2020 4:17 am

Jurassic_Park wrote:

really great breakdown. Released in April 2020, already has over 1M views


That was a really well put together video. The younger generation that are more casual fans are really seeing why MJ is considered the GOAT.

I also like this video

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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1196 » by cpower » Sun May 24, 2020 5:18 pm

The series put more question marks on Lebron's legacy. MJ got rings, stories, last min shots, and the whole culture thing behind him.. Lebron may be just as good, but he just does not stack up with MJ. The media is doing everything they can do to push the agenda today but in a few decades , there is going to be MJ then there is the rest of the packs of KAJ, Magic, Lebron, Wilt, Russell, Duncan...
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1197 » by pohani komarac » Mon May 25, 2020 12:01 pm

To much bs...from ESPN, just to sell storry better. By ESPN Kerr is more important than Kukoc or Harper and even Longley.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1198 » by NaturalThunder » Tue May 26, 2020 5:22 am

Golden Knight wrote:Good documentary but really disappointed with the amount of footage from 1997-98 shown.

The promos and press releases for the documentary boasted "500 hours of film" sitting in the league's vault. I was left expecting 2-3 episodes worth of "intros"/new interviews and 7 episodes worth of 97-98 footage. We got like what, 1 episode, at most 2 episodes of the 97-98 season/interviews and the rest stuff we already know. No Pippen-Pacers, virtually no Harper(!) etc. You'd think the starting lineup of that team was Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kerr and Scott Burrell.

It's not really the Last Dance, more like a documentary about Jordan's Chicago career.

Image

You're 100% correct. I thoroughly enjoyed the docu-series, but I also thought we'd get a lot more unseen footage of the '97-'98 season. So much of what was shown is stuff a lot of "diehards" already knew. Of course, "diehards" are never the intended audience for something like this. Diehards are the minority and things like "The Last Dance" docu-series tend to target the masses. But a lot of what we saw in "The Last Dance", has been read about in books and online articles by NBA fanatics.

Based on the documentary, if you were a casual NBA fan, you may still not know that Ron Harper was a key starter/player on the second 3-peat Bulls. The creators of the series got one of the most popular soundbites from Harper with his "Yeah, whatever. Ok, f**k this bull****." comment, but that was from his perspective after Jordan hit "The Shot" against Ron Harper and the Cavs in the '89 ECF. There was zero commentary from Ron Harper once the documentary reached the second 3-peat portion of the story. Why is that? And although Kucok was the 4th best players on the second 3-peat Bulls, and had a handful of big contributions, even he wasn't heavily featured.

It is what it is, I suppose. Based on what we watched, though, if you didn't know better you'd think Steve Kerr was better and more important than Kucok and Harper. I really enjoyed the documentary, but, for various reasons, I was left wanting a bit more.
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1199 » by Effigy » Tue May 26, 2020 3:40 pm

unicron5 wrote:
Effigy wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
I would say listening to Reinsdorf and Phil, the blame would go in this order:

Reinsdorf
Krause
Phil


Reinsdorf admitted he wasn't willing to pay for the team to come back which is foolish considering how much they made out of each championship, ticket sales, and all other revenue. He said he wanted MJ/Phil back but wanted to re-tool to save money. Well, he should have known Phil and MJ weren't going to play with a bunch of newcomers. He stated "it may have taken 2-3 years, but we would have gotten back there." Well, in 2-3 years MJ would have been a shell of himself (see his Wizard days). A shell of MJ is still better than most players, but not good enough to win titles.

Krause was against keeping Phil, making Phil and Scottie feel unwanted. He let it be known from day 1 of the new season that he was going to rebuild everything just because he could. (I am certain Reinsdorf being cheap also pushed him to this decision).

Phil because Reinsdorf said he tried to keep Phil, but Phil said that was it. He was tired of dealing with Krause and saw that certain players were either up there in age or just didn't want to be there anymore.

After that it's a combo of MJ and Scottie but can you really blame them at that point? Your owner doesn't want to pay you or the team, your GM basically said he can do it alone, and the one coach you want to play for is leaving.


It’s 100% on Reinsdorf. First, like you said, he was probably too cheap to commit to the team. It’s honestly the only thing that makes sense. But second, he was the one person who could have settled the Krause/Phil issue and he didn’t. And I think he didn’t because Krause was following his orders. Reinsdorf offered Phil the chance to come back on a one year deal after making Phil win a sixth title first? What was that? That’s a fart in the wind. That’s an insult. I realize he had that deal with Jordan, but that deal was Mike’s idea. He wanted that for control and leverage. The Pippen situation was insulting too. He got over on Scottie and had him signed to an unfair contract. He wasn’t willing to renegotiate and he wasn’t willing to sign him to what he was worth when he became a fa. Breaking the team up isn’t on Scottie in the slightest. (And I know you aren’t saying otherwise) He fulfilled his contract and got offered a much better deal and took it. Now, I am certain he would have turned down an identical deal from the Bulls if hey offered it, but 1) they didn’t and 2) They had built up too much bad blood with him for him to want to stay


You can't renegotiate a contract like that once its signed so I don't think that was a factor. The rest of it, sure. They got arrogant and thought they could quickly rebuild with some high picks. They were wrong.


I think you can or could back then as long as you had cap room. Isn't that exactly what Cleveland did with Shawn Kemp?
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Re: ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion 

Post#1200 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue May 26, 2020 6:39 pm

Sofia wrote:Just finished it.

In the last 5 minutes he says he was still at his peak because although he is older, he has mental strength now. He’s as dominant as he was in 91.

He also says he can’t accept the ownership not wanting to pursue a 7th title.

My question, why is one of the alleged most competitive people of all time retiring at his peak, just because he didn’t get to play with Scott, Dennis and Phil?

Surely if he was truly at his peak like he claims, why would he not sign elsewhere? He can’t accept management not wanting to chase a title, but it’s fine for him to quit because he’s not playing with the players and coach he wants? I don’t get it.

Mj never really wanted to play for another team. Chi was everything to him. He build that franchise. He didnt want to stay either and rebuild it all over again when there was opportunity right there for 7th one.
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