Who had a more Impressive Magic Career- T-mac or Penny?

MoochieNorris · Post #1 » by **MoochieNorris** » Mon May 11, 2020 6:37 am

who do you got and why?

Catchall · Post #2 » by **Catchall** » Tue May 12, 2020 12:09 am

Well, Penny played in the Finals so...

CarMalone · Post #3 » by **CarMalone** » Tue May 12, 2020 12:24 am

T-Mac
4 seasons, 295 games
28.1ppg
7 rpg
5.2 apg
1.5 spg, 1.0 bpg
26.4PER, .537 %TS
4x All-Star, 4x All-NBA (2x 1st team)

Hardaway
6 seasons, 369 games
19 ppg
4.7 rpg
6.3 apg
1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg
20.2 PER, .559 %TS
4x All-Star, 3x All-NBA (2x 1st team)

I think T-Mac has the edge here.

o0dong · Post #4 » by **o0dong** » Tue May 12, 2020 12:29 am

T-mac had the higher peak while Penny had more playoff and regular season success. Being a 90s kid it we always knew it was Shaq's team despite how popular Penny was and there was no question the Magic was T-mac's team.

T-mac's 4 years as a Magic was so impressive I'd take him despite the lack of playoff success.

Egg Nog · Post #5 » by **Egg Nog** » Tue May 12, 2020 12:55 am

Catchall wrote:Well, Penny played in the Finals so...

If that's the metric, at least T-Mac had a better career with the Spurs than George Gervin.

LKN · Post #6 » by **LKN** » Tue May 12, 2020 12:56 am

Just bummed about both those guys (and Grant Hill). Too many late 90s, early 00s guys were lost to injury.

Penny was so damn exciting when he came into the league.

TheBomb81 · Post #7 » by **TheBomb81** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:20 am

Edge to Penny since he got to the finals and the conference finals twice.

Marcus_Shart · Post #8 » by **Marcus_Shart** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:40 am

On one hand T-Mac put up more impressive numbers, but he had way less help. Someone has to get those stats. Penny had much more success albeit he had Shaq, and a better team all around. You swap them and T-mac has more team success with worse numbers as he wouldn't be the 1st option with Shaq there. Penny would be the reverse. I give the edge to Penny for taking out Judden in 95. T-mac hasn't accomplished anything remotely close to that even when he was on better teams. I will say that he had terrible luck with injuries to himself and others, but still. 1st round virgin. 40yo virgin if you count that time with the Spurs :lol:

Ckay · Post #9 » by **Ckay** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:45 am

TheBomb81 wrote:Edge to Penny since he got to the finals and the conference finals twice.

With Shaq.

BigtimeNBAfan · Post #10 » by **BigtimeNBAfan** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:51 am

Catchall wrote:Well, Penny played in the Finals so...

TMAC played in the finals too.

Being serious though it is TMac and it isn't close. Hardaway was done being a star by 98. His last all nba team was 97 and his last all star appearance was 98 (which shows you shouldn't go by being an all star since Penny barely played that year). He didn't average 20 pts a game after 97. Penny had a very short period of being a star and then was done. True he had some terrible injuries. It is unfair what happened to him, but unfortunately that is what happened.

TMAC was a star for close to a decade. He led the NBA in scoring twice and did it during years when Kobe was scoring at a high level. I mean Kobe was setting scoring records during the 02-03 season yet Mcgrady won the scoring title that year. TMac was one of the faces of the league from 01-08.

Winsome Gerbil · Post #11 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:51 am

T-Mac was more impressive -- the MAgic were Shaq's team, Penny was the wingman. So yes he experienced playoff success, but it wasn't success primarily attributable to him. But T-Mac was even more impressive as basically a solo superstar with Hill's leg disintegration, and everything they did achieve could be laid at his feet alone. When he averaged 32ppg his second best player was probably Mike Miller, and Miller was always hurt and only played 49 games. Hill was a shell and played 29 games. His best teammate who played in at least 50 games was Pat freakin' Garrity, who averaged 10.7ppg in 31min.

BigtimeNBAfan · Post #12 » by **BigtimeNBAfan** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:54 am

Ckay wrote:
TheBomb81 wrote:Edge to Penny since he got to the finals and the conference finals twice.

With Shaq.

Yeah Penny was good, but he was very much like TMac after Shaq left Orlando. His final 3 years in Orlando were; First round loss, missed almost the whole season to injury, first round loss.

I am no TMac fan, but I don't think this debate is even close.

Dnt hate · Post #13 » by **Dnt hate** » Tue May 12, 2020 2:19 am

BigtimeNBAfan wrote:
Catchall wrote:Well, Penny played in the Finals so...

TMAC played in the finals too.

Being serious though it is TMac and it isn't close. Hardaway was done being a star by 98. His last all nba team was 97 and his last all star appearance was 98 (which shows you shouldn't go by being an all star since Penny barely played that year). He didn't average 20 pts a game after 97. Penny had a very short period of being a star and then was done. True he had some terrible injuries. It is unfair what happened to him, but unfortunately that is what happened.

TMAC was a star for close to a decade. He led the NBA in scoring twice and did it during years when Kobe was scoring at a high level. I mean Kobe was setting scoring records during the 02-03 season yet Mcgrady won the scoring title that year. TMac was one of the faces of the league from 01-08.

What scoring records during 02 03 was kobe setting? Serious question

gavran · Post #14 » by **gavran** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:28 pm

A fully healthy Penny was a 1st option for only 22 games, and he averaged

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
22 22 38.7 8.2 16.4 .503 1.3 3.6 .350 8.6 11.0 .785 2.1 3.2 5.3 6.8 2.0 0.9 3.2 1.9 26.4

Give healthy Penny the touches T-Mac had, and he'll give you similar stats.

birdlives_ma · Post #15 » by **birdlives_ma** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:37 pm

gavran wrote:A fully healthy Penny was a 1st option for only 22 games, and he averaged

G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
22 22 38.7 8.2 16.4 .503 1.3 3.6 .350 8.6 11.0 .785 2.1 3.2 5.3 6.8 2.0 0.9 3.2 1.9 26.4

Give healthy Penny the touches T-Mac had, and he'll give you similar stats.

Healthy Penny would have been great, but the fact that he only had 22 games as the 1st option is kind of the point.

T-mac is a top 50 guy all-time, and had his best years in Orlando. Kobe or T-Mac was a legit debate for a few years there.

It's not that close, IMO

dennythedino · Post #16 » by **dennythedino** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:38 pm

What scoring records during 02 03 was kobe setting? Serious question

He had a stretch of 9 consecutive 40+ point games.

AdamTheGreek · Post #17 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:49 pm

Depends on how you define this.

Penny actually got out of the first round. Obviously those mid-'90s teams were way better talent wise than what Tracy ever had (we were crippled cap wise with G-Hill's contract). Even without Shaq, Penny goes on a run early in '95-'96 where he's scoring like crazy and dropping in several game-winners.
Penny still has the two 40+ point games in the '97 playoffs with Shaq gone.Then the injuries killed him his last 2 seasons in town. T-MAC had a 3-1 lead up on Detroit and we blew it (the season before 1st round was 5-game, not 7-game series. Too bad).

Statistically, Tracy would win the argument. T-MAC finished 4th in MVP voting twice (and in '02-'03 he should've finished higher when you look at all of his stats). McGrady twice led the league in scoring (32.1 ppg in '02-'03, and then claiming it again when he was hurt and didn't care for some of those games in the disastrous '03-'04 season).

I still view Penny as the better overall player (he was the MJ successor, not Grant Hill). Tracy was the better pure scorer because he had no choice. Penny as the go-to scorer was barely seen (Shaq, injuries, etc.), so this makes the comparison super tricky.

Both had super ugly exits from Orlando.

Optms · Post #18 » by **Optms** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:50 pm

dennythedino wrote:
What scoring records during 02 03 was kobe setting? Serious question

He had a stretch of 9 consecutive 40+ point games.

16 straight games of 30+
13 straight games 35+

11 40+ point games in those 16 games. Two 50 plus point games. Lakers went 13-3 during the stretch.

israelfirst · Post #19 » by **israelfirst** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:53 pm

tmac had the better peak but penny was more successful

mixerball · Post #20 » by **mixerball** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:05 pm

CarMalone wrote:T-Mac
4 seasons, 295 games
28.1ppg
7 rpg
5.2 apg
1.5 spg, 1.0 bpg
26.4PER, .537 %TS
4x All-Star, 4x All-NBA (2x 1st team)

Hardaway
6 seasons, 369 games
19 ppg
4.7 rpg
6.3 apg
1.9 spg, 0.6 bpg
20.2 PER, .559 %TS
4x All-Star, 3x All-NBA (2x 1st team)

I think T-Mac has the edge here.

but you have to take into account that penny played with shaq who ate a lot of his numbers