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Who was the best player of the thunder in the 2016 playoffs...Durant or Westbrook?

Am I the only one who thinks Westbrook was more important and more impacful for the thunder in the 2016 playoffs?

Even in 2014, Westbrook had been better than Durant in the playoffs according to the advanced stats.

I think Westbrook was a little better honestly. He did a lot even when he wasn't scoring that well because he constantly applied pressure and passed the rock really well. KD was really good too, but his play dropped off.

Westbrook easily. KD was arguably the 4th best player in the series against Golden State.

Overall is westbrook.

Westbrook was better in the Mavs, GS series.
Durant was better in the spurs.

If Durant didn't have a bizarre series against the Mavs it would be an interesting discussion.

i'm not going to debate who's the better player. i'm a westy fan, but it's kd obviously

however that year there was a noticeable dropoff in the playoffs for kd while westbrook was able to maintain.

in terms of what okc depended on, westbrook came thru BETTER than kd
westbrook improve his 3s by 3%, kd dropped by 10%
westbrook went from 10apg to 11 apg
kd dropped -10% in efg...westy -4%
westy jumped in steals, kd remained the same.'they both dropped -1rpg


the point i'm making is okc depended on kd for certain things and they depended on westy for certain things. the main thing okc depended on kd for was to score and especially from the 3 because he was their only 3pt shooter,,,,and he failed BADLY. westbrook otoh, did what he was supposed to do.

westbrook's notorious inefficiencies are built into his game. you take the bad with the good. it is assumed.
however okc didn't expect kd's huge dropoff in shooting

so if you ask who was the better player, kd was the better player like lebron is always the best player. but if you ask who came thru for okc, westbrook did EXACTLY if not better than what was expected of him and kd failed especially in game5. kd went into game5 with a totally different mindset and bombed.

there is CLEARLY a reason the topic is specifically the 2016 PLAYOFFS and not something else, and in the playoffs, westy imo was the better player

I was bored so checked but:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

+8.81 net rating in their minutes together

-4.74 Durant/no Westbrook (and the O Rtg dropped to 100 even)

-2.44 Westbrook no Durant (115 O Rtg)

I'd lean Westbrook, and even in the RS he ended up ahead in MVP voting (and led in RPM for one other stat at least).

From 2013-16 (so post Harden trade):

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=201566,201142

Net rating a bit better in the KD lineups than Westbrook, but both still solid, and Westbrook's were better offensively.

Playoffs only:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

The Westbrook only lineups better than the KD only lineups.

Take it for what it's worth, though I don't really think the bench is an excuse for why there's a gap (they didn't have good backups at either spot).

Westbrook was REALLY good in the 2015-2016 season and it continued through the playoffs. I’m sure most people are going to say KD cause he won titles when he went to the Golden State super team and Westbrook hasn’t had playoff success since, but this at the very least was very, very close. IMO, that playoffs, Westbrook was the better version of 2015-2016 self, while KD was worse then himself that season.

bondom34 wrote:I was bored so checked but:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

+8.81 net rating in their minutes together

-4.74 Durant/no Westbrook (and the O Rtg dropped to 100 even)

-2.44 Westbrook no Durant (115 O Rtg)

I'd lean Westbrook, and even in the RS he ended up ahead in MVP voting (and led in RPM for one other stat at least).

From 2013-16 (so post Harden trade):

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=201566,201142

Net rating a bit better in the KD lineups than Westbrook, but both still solid, and Westbrook's were better offensively.

Playoffs only:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

The Westbrook only lineups better than the KD only lineups.

Take it for what it's worth, though I don't really think the bench is an excuse for why there's a gap (they didn't have good backups at either spot).

Interesting stats!

Westbrook was the better player. KD shot them out of a 3 1 lead over Gzs with his 4th quarter heroics.

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Ultimately Donatello brought just enough pizza to the party, but Splinter came up short a batch on the cupcakes. Really the most damning stat is Russ shooting better from 3 on the same volume. That's the main thing Russ is terrible at while also being Duh-rants biggest strength. You take that away and Russ is easily a better player even with Durant's superior defense. Durant finally found his shot in game 7, but he shot abysmal the 2 games prior. Some people blame Russ for his poor shooting in that game, but when you look at the series as a whole Durant didn't shoot any better,and one game does not a series make. Durant showed more regression by a pretty sizable amount.

For playoffs I think Westbrook was more important player as whole but I don't think there is the right answer for this. That season they were as close as 1a and 1b changing from night to night as I can remember any teammates be. Westbrook was the engine and facilitator of the team and Durant was the scorer and closer. Both pushed each others and depending on night Durant might have been the facilitator and Westbrook the closer or other way around, it's just shame how it all ended.

Maybe one day in future they run it back... One can dream, right?

Hard to make a good argument for Durant in this. As he commented many times in the media: he was okay letting Russ "do his thing". He proved in the aftermath that he was less than okay with this, but for the last couple years of OKC (when Russ came back healthy), it was Russ's team for better or worse. KD was the second option, and not in a way that

I really despised both those players by that point. They completely embarrassed this garbage 2-man "my turn, your turn" offense that was painful to watch. Westbrook always got the first crack at it, KD spent portions of the games saving broken plays and living off Westbrook scraps. It was Shaqkobe Lakers but take away the triangle and don't replace it with any kind of tangible offensive system (you know with like... passing! and... cutting! and stuff!). Oh and also have Shaq stand in the corner sometimes and just vibe.

The crazy thing is that they were both so talented it mostly worked. Have Westbrook and Durant go out there and chuck 20-30 shots each and you have yourself an elite offense. Roberson, Adams and Ibaka have your defense covered so just go to town, cupcakes!

They beat a 67 win Spurs team. Who kind of got exposed in terms of Duncan being completely finished, and Ginobili being injured those playoffs. None of those guys could scale up their minutes in the playoffs to become 35mpg players, so those Spurs were bigger paper tiger than we thought, and Kawhi was 1 year away from becoming a monster scorer. They almost beat the Warriors as we all know well.

I still think Durant was more valuable, but Russ outperformed him. They were less than the sum of their parts, but their parts were the nicest parts possible. Still wonder what could have been for many versions of these Thunder teams if they built a smart offense. Durant should be able to shoot better than 42% ya know?

jamaalstar21 wrote:Hard to make a good argument for Durant in this. As he commented many times in the media: he was okay letting Russ "do his thing". He proved in the aftermath that he was less than okay with this, but for the last couple years of OKC (when Russ came back healthy), it was Russ's team for better or worse. KD was the second option, and not in a way that

I really despised both those players by that point. They completely embarrassed this garbage 2-man "my turn, your turn" offense that was painful to watch. Westbrook always got the first crack at it, KD spent portions of the games saving broken plays and living off Westbrook scraps. It was Shaqkobe Lakers but take away the triangle and don't replace it with any kind of tangible offensive system (you know with like... passing! and... cutting! and stuff!). Oh and also have Shaq stand in the corner sometimes and just vibe.

The crazy thing is that they were both so talented it mostly worked. Have Westbrook and Durant go out there and chuck 20-30 shots each and you have yourself an elite offense. Roberson, Adams and Ibaka have your defense covered so just go to town, cupcakes!

They beat a 67 win Spurs team. Who kind of got exposed in terms of Duncan being completely finished, and Ginobili being injured those playoffs. None of those guys could scale up their minutes in the playoffs to become 35mpg players, so those Spurs were bigger paper tiger than we thought, and Kawhi was 1 year away from becoming a monster scorer. They almost beat the Warriors as we all know well.

I still think Durant was more valuable, but Russ outperformed him. They were less than the sum of their parts, but their parts were the nicest parts possible. Still wonder what could have been for many versions of these Thunder teams if they built a smart offense. Durant should be able to shoot better than 42% ya know?

I though similar to this as well. I felt like they tried to "do it like Wade and LBJ did with the 1-2 punch but forgot about how that Miami team evolved past that by 2012...

kevin durant played the best D of his career in the wcf v. the warriors.

bondom34 wrote:I was bored so checked but:

Thank you.

OP: was everyone supposed to remember the stats from 4 years ago? Give us some numbers next time hombre.

bondom34 wrote:I was bored so checked but:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

+8.81 net rating in their minutes together

-4.74 Durant/no Westbrook (and the O Rtg dropped to 100 even)

-2.44 Westbrook no Durant (115 O Rtg)

I'd lean Westbrook, and even in the RS he ended up ahead in MVP voting (and led in RPM for one other stat at least).

From 2013-16 (so post Harden trade):

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=201566,201142

Net rating a bit better in the KD lineups than Westbrook, but both still solid, and Westbrook's were better offensively.

Playoffs only:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

The Westbrook only lineups better than the KD only lineups.

Take it for what it's worth, though I don't really think the bench is an excuse for why there's a gap (they didn't have good backups at either spot).

Thanks for taking the time to look these up, as you indicated they were both playing 40 MPG in playoff games so I'm not sure how much these marginal differences in offensive efficiency in limited minutes really mean.

It also goes back to the classic debate with Westbrook regarding his style of play being something that can single handedly maintain a decent offense but the jury is out on whether a team can reach its highest levels with someone playing like that. Does Westbrook keeping the Thunder afloat during the 8 minutes Durant rested outweigh him not maximizing Durant during the 30+ minutes they were playing together?

While they were clicking and working together that team was a beautiful thing to watch. I wholly acknowledge their limitations in coaching, team structure and lack of depth. But KD and Russ can both play some tremendously entertaining basketball. The Russ/Adams two man high pick and roll plays were so flawless too.

You should have been champions guys.

Sixerscan wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I was bored so checked but:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

+8.81 net rating in their minutes together

-4.74 Durant/no Westbrook (and the O Rtg dropped to 100 even)

-2.44 Westbrook no Durant (115 O Rtg)

I'd lean Westbrook, and even in the RS he ended up ahead in MVP voting (and led in RPM for one other stat at least).

From 2013-16 (so post Harden trade):

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=201566,201142

Net rating a bit better in the KD lineups than Westbrook, but both still solid, and Westbrook's were better offensively.

Playoffs only:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

The Westbrook only lineups better than the KD only lineups.

Take it for what it's worth, though I don't really think the bench is an excuse for why there's a gap (they didn't have good backups at either spot).

Thanks for taking the time to look these up, as you indicated they were both playing 40 MPG in playoff games so I'm not sure how much these marginal differences in offensive efficiency in limited minutes really mean.

It also goes back to the classic debate with Westbrook regarding his style of play being something that can single handedly maintain a decent offense but the jury is out on whether a team can reach its highest levels with someone playing like that. Does Westbrook keeping the Thunder afloat during the 8 minutes Durant rested outweigh him not maximizing Durant during the 30+ minutes they were playing together?

I get the idea of this, but I feel as though this is kinda KD's fault. KD, you're a 6'10" shooting guard with an unblockable shot. Why do you need so much help? This is kinda why I think KD's peak is a little overrated. I can't imagine us letting LeBron/MJ/Kareem, even peak Kobe slide with this. You're a supposed GOAT-level scorer, get it done. Westbrook was always able to do what he needed to, we should put the same expectations on KD.

Pelly24 wrote:

Sixerscan wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I was bored so checked but:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

+8.81 net rating in their minutes together

-4.74 Durant/no Westbrook (and the O Rtg dropped to 100 even)

-2.44 Westbrook no Durant (115 O Rtg)

I'd lean Westbrook, and even in the RS he ended up ahead in MVP voting (and led in RPM for one other stat at least).

From 2013-16 (so post Harden trade):

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=201566,201142

Net rating a bit better in the KD lineups than Westbrook, but both still solid, and Westbrook's were better offensively.

Playoffs only:

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2015-16,2013-14,2014-15,2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=201566,201142

The Westbrook only lineups better than the KD only lineups.

Take it for what it's worth, though I don't really think the bench is an excuse for why there's a gap (they didn't have good backups at either spot).

Thanks for taking the time to look these up, as you indicated they were both playing 40 MPG in playoff games so I'm not sure how much these marginal differences in offensive efficiency in limited minutes really mean.

It also goes back to the classic debate with Westbrook regarding his style of play being something that can single handedly maintain a decent offense but the jury is out on whether a team can reach its highest levels with someone playing like that. Does Westbrook keeping the Thunder afloat during the 8 minutes Durant rested outweigh him not maximizing Durant during the 30+ minutes they were playing together?

I get the idea of this, but I feel as though this is kinda KD's fault. KD, you're a 6'10" shooting guard with an unblockable shot. Why do you need so much help? This is kinda why I think KD's peak is a little overrated. I can't imagine us letting LeBron/MJ/Kareem, even peak Kobe slide with this. You're a supposed GOAT-level scorer, get it done. Westbrook was always able to do what he needed to, we should put the same expectations on KD.

I don't think he needed help as much as Westbrook was actively undermining him to some degree with his style of play. Westbrook is the one that starts with the ball so it's just easier for him to do what he wants and when he does it's at the expense of the other guys on the court. Certainly Durant could have done more and more generally it's on both him and Westbrook for not figuring this stuff out in all the time they played together.

Of course, this is all in the context of that Thunder team beating the 67 win Spurs and taking the 73 win Warriors to the absolute brink. It was a pretty successful run, outside of it directly leading to Durant leaving, of course.