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And how good he was in his prime?

I didn't get to see his prime years. But from what I've heard from older fans, Rasheed Wallace was a very good player who would have been a transcendently incredible player if he had the desire to be that. Seriously, I've heard at least a half-dozen people wistfully talk about how Mr. "Ball Don't Lie" should have been just as good as Duncan or Dirk or KG in his prime years.

Which makes me incredibly skeptical when I hear people now say that Wallace/Lamar Odom/Baron Davis would be SUPERSTARS if they played today. They would be held back by the very same thing that held them back in their heyday.

He wouldn't rank very high. Incredibly talented player and impactful at that too, but he just didn't have the "it" factor and was a surprisingly soft-rebounder. Off the top of my head all these guy are ahead of him.

Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
Dirk
Webber
McHale
Rodman
Gasol
Petit
Kemp
McAdoo
Cummings
Amare
Bosh
Hayes
Griffin

It's a shame, because on a good day, he could easily hang with any of these guys. I think he's closer to the Elton Brand, Marion, Randolph tier of PFs.

He doesn't.

LaMarcus Aldridge might be a decent modern-day comparison in terms of impact. There are days where you can convince yourself that you can build a playoff contender around Aldridge (when he was younger) but at the end of the day you know that he's never going to be the lead guy on a contender. You know he's really good, but at the end of the day you wish he were better.

I think because he was kind of a disappointment as an offensive player, people tend to overlook just how good he was defensively.

Definitely should have been a top 10 PF ever, but still is probably around 15 for me.

HomoSapien wrote:He wouldn't rank very high. Incredibly talented player and impactful at that too, but he just didn't have the "it" factor and was a surprisingly soft-rebounder. Off the top of my head all these guy are ahead of him.

Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
Dirk
Webber
McHale
Rodman
Gasol
Petit
Kemp
McAdoo
Cummings
Amare
Bosh
Hayes
Griffin

It's a shame, because on a good day, he could easily hang with any of these guys. I think he's closer to the Elton Brand, Marion, Randolph tier of PFs.

I think he was better than amare, Bosh, Cummings, and perhaps Griffin

As mentioned in earlier in the thread, he was a multidimensional offensive player but also a great defender.

He should have been better though if he was more focused

Sheed was an all-NBA talent who had the mental fortitude of a 12 year old kid. He was amazing when he was locked in, but it usually took him getting upset to bring that talent out. Otherwise he played with a passive seeming indifference that could be really befuddling. And when he did get upset there was an at least equal chance that he would fixate needlessly on the refs or do something to get thrown out of the game.

Sheed was just never cut out to be a go-to guy or a true leader, even though he had the talent to be. His personality traits could be endearing when he was a backseat role player like he was in Detroit, but when he was the leader and face of the team they could be maddening. The Portland teams at the time desperately needed someone who could steer the ship and take over in big moments, and maintain their poise. Hence why they failed with Sheed.

Sheed was the 5th best PF at his peak (00-01) behind Duncan, Garnett, Webber, and young Dirk (old Malone was better before that). He was also ejected from, I think, 7 different games in that season alone.

On an all-time ranking he's also behind a number of other guys, like Barkley, Pettit, Schayes, McHale, Hayes, Gasol, even Aldridge is probably a bit better now as well. He'd be pretty close to Shawn Kemp and Kevin Love, I suppose.

He's higher on the all underachieving team if he had great focus and disciple he'd be a hofer no doubt

camby23 wrote:And how good he was in his prime?

Very good. His game gave Duncan a lot of problems. He would be today's perfect power forward. Stretch 4 with incredible defense. Had an unstoppable turn around J but floated. He didn't bring it often enough and so he's somewhere on the 3rd tier of power forwards. Whereever Webber ranks. Porzingis plays a lot like him.

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I dont think Sheed ranks very high. Sheed was like a poor mans KG with the mentality of DeMarcus Cousins and the overall impact of ZBo.

Goudelock wrote:I didn't get to see his prime years. But from what I've heard from older fans, Rasheed Wallace was a very good player who would have been a transcendently incredible player if he had the desire to be that. Seriously, I've heard at least a half-dozen people wistfully talk about how Mr. "Ball Don't Lie" should have been just as good as Duncan or Dirk or KG in his prime years.

Which makes me incredibly skeptical when I hear people now say that Wallace/Lamar Odom/Baron Davis would be SUPERSTARS if they played today. They would be held back by the very same thing that held them back in their heyday.

He was far too undisciplined. He reached his peak, for what he was working with.

He wouldve needed a brain transplant to be better.

Goudelock wrote:I didn't get to see his prime years. But from what I've heard from older fans, Rasheed Wallace was a very good player who would have been a transcendently incredible player if he had the desire to be that. Seriously, I've heard at least a half-dozen people wistfully talk about how Mr. "Ball Don't Lie" should have been just as good as Duncan or Dirk or KG in his prime years.
Which makes me incredibly skeptical when I hear people now say that Wallace/Lamar Odom/Baron Davis would be SUPERSTARS if they played today. They would be held back by the very same thing that held them back in their heyday.

He was very talented but I think the talk of him as a Duncan/Dirk whatever is about people exaggerating his mental quirks and not focusing on his physical game's limitations. He didn't have a good handle or first step and wasn't a super quick-twitch athlete, so he wasn't a threat off the dribble; he could post up but wasn't particularly strong, quick, or wily so he wasn't going to dominate there; he had good height and length but wasn't elite or special in either category; and he had nice touch but wasn't a super standout NBA shooter or anything. He was effective at jump shooting, rebounding/put backs, and as a post guy, but he wasn't able to do any of those things at huge volume or against anyone.

His weird personality did cost him sometimes on offense and defense, but to my eyes even if he made great decisions he didn't have any particular skill or ability that would've made him a superstar. Just a good player who could rebound, defend, and score inside or outside if the situation was right.

prophet_of_rage wrote:

camby23 wrote:And how good he was in his prime?

Very good. His game gave Duncan a lot of problems. He would be today's perfect power forward. Stretch 4 with incredible defense. Had an unstoppable turn around J but floated. He didn't bring it often enough and so he's somewhere on the 3rd tier of power forwards. Whereever Webber ranks. Porzingis plays a lot like him.

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Sheed is overrated. Incredibly inefficient on offense. His post game (which people claim he didn't use enough) wasn't as good as revisionists will tell you. Pretty, unblockable turnaround J, but that was it. Terrible TS%, didn't get to the line. Poor rebounder. Very good defender, though. But more so post defender. Young Dirk wrecked him in the 2003 playoffs. Overrated because people act like "if he tried" he'd be TD/Dirk/KG level. No. He never had that skill-level. He'd be a better defending, worse passing Webber at best.

Didn't see him often but whenever I caught him on TV he was always ballin and I would think why he wasn't a superstar

HomoSapien wrote:He wouldn't rank very high. Incredibly talented player and impactful at that too, but he just didn't have the "it" factor and was a surprisingly soft-rebounder. Off the top of my head all these guy are ahead of him.

Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
Dirk
Webber
McHale
Rodman
Gasol
Petit
Kemp
McAdoo
Cummings
Amare
Bosh
Hayes
Griffin

It's a shame, because on a good day, he could easily hang with any of these guys. I think he's closer to the Elton Brand, Marion, Randolph tier of PFs.

Solid list. Anthony Davis should be on that list as well, if not now then shortly. Especially if Griffin, Bosh and Amare are there,

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:

prophet_of_rage wrote:

camby23 wrote:And how good he was in his prime?

Very good. His game gave Duncan a lot of problems. He would be today's perfect power forward. Stretch 4 with incredible defense. Had an unstoppable turn around J but floated. He didn't bring it often enough and so he's somewhere on the 3rd tier of power forwards. Whereever Webber ranks. Porzingis plays a lot like him.

Sheed is overrated. Incredibly inefficient on offense. His post game (which people claim he didn't use enough) wasn't as good as revisionists will tell you. Pretty, unblockable turnaround J, but that was it. Terrible TS%, didn't get to the line. Poor rebounder. Very good defender, though. But more so post defender. Young Dirk wrecked him in the 2003 playoffs. Overrated because people act like "if he tried" he'd be TD/Dirk/KG level. No. He never had that skill-level. He'd be a better defending, worse passing Webber at best.

Feeling most of this but Webber was extremely athletic and nimble his first like 8 years in the league, also had a terrific handle and was quit a bit thicker/stronger than Rasheed. Rasheed had a pretty nice jumper and was pretty mobile for a big man, though was also fairly stiff and had no shake to him. I don't think there's any physical comparison and don't see how Rasheed could've ever played at Webber's peak levels.

HotelVitale wrote:

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:

prophet_of_rage wrote:Very good. His game gave Duncan a lot of problems. He would be today's perfect power forward. Stretch 4 with incredible defense. Had an unstoppable turn around J but floated. He didn't bring it often enough and so he's somewhere on the 3rd tier of power forwards. Whereever Webber ranks. Porzingis plays a lot like him.

Sheed is overrated. Incredibly inefficient on offense. His post game (which people claim he didn't use enough) wasn't as good as revisionists will tell you. Pretty, unblockable turnaround J, but that was it. Terrible TS%, didn't get to the line. Poor rebounder. Very good defender, though. But more so post defender. Young Dirk wrecked him in the 2003 playoffs. Overrated because people act like "if he tried" he'd be TD/Dirk/KG level. No. He never had that skill-level. He'd be a better defending, worse passing Webber at best.

Feeling most of this but Webber was extremely athletic and nimble his first like 8 years in the league, also had a terrific handle and was quit a bit thicker/stronger than Rasheed. Rasheed had a pretty nice jumper and was pretty mobile for a big man, though was also fairly stiff and had no shake to him. I don't think there's any physical comparison and don't see how Rasheed could've ever played at Webber's peak levels.

Fair, I guess I just mean a volume but inefficient scorer, which C-Webb was. Didn't get to the FT line or shoot 3s (Sheed at least did that), and both settled for lots of mid-range J's. Maybe if he "tried" Sheed would have been a better rebounder, I dk.

prophet_of_rage wrote:

camby23 wrote:And how good he was in his prime?

Very good. His game gave Duncan a lot of problems. He would be today's perfect power forward. Stretch 4 with incredible defense. Had an unstoppable turn around J but floated. He didn't bring it often enough and so he's somewhere on the 3rd tier of power forwards. Whereever Webber ranks. Porzingis plays a lot like him.

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Webber is in the 2nd tier of all time 4's. Sheed isn't in that neighborhood.

I would easily put Sheed in the same tier as Webber. Sheed was better defensively. He couldn't keep his mouth shut, though, and the unnecessary technicals just drove me crazy.