Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes

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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#61 » by JN61 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:30 am

Pennebaker wrote:
LakerLegend wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
Since when is allowing 28.2 ppg on .571 FG% and .519 3PT% locking someone up? :lol:

The problem remains. MJ could jump out of the gym in 1988, sure, but he couldn't figure out Joe Dumars, who was the bane of his existence.


Now give us the numbers without the garbage time stats :D


What numbers?

I help you out: 6-0.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#62 » by camby23 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:53 am

He would have been amazing player (30-35 ppg scorer) but he wouldn't won 6 titles if he entered his prime around 2010. Thats for sure. Not in LeBron's Miami and Cavs, Durant's and Curry's Warriors era. 2 maybe 3 but not 6.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#63 » by Collymore » Fri May 22, 2020 10:56 am

Everyone talks about the fierce rivalry in the 80s while you hear about how Jordan went golfing with Boston Celtics superstar Danny Ainge between playoff games. Remove the Bad Boy Pistons and that would be the softest era since Wilt and Russell played against janitors and librarians.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#64 » by michaelm » Fri May 22, 2020 11:02 am

Sure, Wilt Chamberlain would be an average athlete today as well. And what would Shaq be ?.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#65 » by Alize » Fri May 22, 2020 11:09 am

Since when are both below average athletes?
JustOneFix wrote:You are right. Bradley Beal and Luka Doncic, below average athletes are scoring 30ppg without breaking a sweat, but MJ would "struggle".

Jesus Christ, they should really impose some kind of a age rule here on real gm.


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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#66 » by Alize » Fri May 22, 2020 11:10 am

And more will power, and with ultimate winner genes
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Jordan played 37 minutes a game at age 39. And he played 82 games.

Compared to a guy like Kawhi who plays 32 minutes at age 28 and needs rest every 2 games.

MJ was not only more athletic, but had more stamina and endurance than any current player.


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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#67 » by Ben-N1ce » Fri May 22, 2020 11:44 am

If you're being generous he'd be a slightly worse Demar Derozan so he could probably score 20 without a three ball.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#68 » by Chevymana » Fri May 22, 2020 1:56 pm



This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#69 » by Lockdown504090 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:04 pm

Pennebaker wrote:But you post a picture from the late 80's and he couldn't even beat the weak athletes from that era. How is he supposed to handle Kawhi Leonard when he couldn't even handle Joe Dumars?

different rules, the strategy was to use shorter defenders because they could hold more and keep guys in front better. Now the strategy is length. regardless, kawhi cant even guard curry in space,



Kawhis weakness is defending off the ball screens and players who like to move around a lot, and weak stamina.

Jordan would just run around 100 screens and play him that way, we arent talking about a guy like harden who only isos in one area of the court. Jordan could get efficent buckets in any way you want it.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#70 » by draftnightsuit » Fri May 22, 2020 2:11 pm

Chevymana wrote:

This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.


He’d be like the 6th best athlete in today’s NBA.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#71 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri May 22, 2020 2:15 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I can't believe I'm engaging in this, but why the hell not. In the 16-17 season Demar Derozan averaged 27.3 ppg despite only making 0.4 three's a game. This season, Russell Westbrook is averaging 27.5ppg while shooting 25% from downtown. As someone else mentioned, Giannis is third in the league in scoring without being able to hit a three. I feel pretty confident that Jordan would be able to score just fine in this era without a reliable three-point shot.


Even a small non All-Star in Monta Ellis was averaging 25ppg in his prime with no 3 point shooting ability and people think MJ can't average 30ppg. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#72 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri May 22, 2020 2:19 pm

Chevymana wrote:

This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.


People keep saying MJ wouldn't be the most athletic player today, but that still doesn't diminish the possibility he'd still be a dominant player. Steph Curry probably isn't even a Top 50 athletic player in the league yet he's a top 10 player in the league regardless.

Also not sure people are thinking MJ would still be playing the same way. In addition to his dominant skillset, he has the competitive drive to work on his game even more to adapt to today's game. He could easily develop a decent three point shot in his arsenal if he wanted to, but in the 80s and 90s he didn't need to because he was already dominating. Put him in today's era and of course he'll add more skills.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#73 » by Chevymana » Fri May 22, 2020 2:40 pm

Flash Falcon X wrote:
Chevymana wrote:

This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.


People keep saying MJ wouldn't be the most athletic player today, but that still doesn't diminish the possibility he'd still be a dominant player. Steph Curry probably isn't even a Top 50 athletic player in the league yet he's a top 10 player in the league regardless.

Also not sure people are thinking MJ would still be playing the same way. In addition to his dominant skillset, he has the competitive drive to work on his game even more to adapt to today's game. He could easily develop a decent three point shot in his arsenal if he wanted to, but in the 80s and 90s he didn't need to because he was already dominating. Put him in today's era and of course he'll add more skills.


This statement is it. What makes him the best is that drive and competitive spirit. He actively sought out the best challenges, not shy away or pair up or worry about failing. He would have easily adapted to today's game and proceeded to dominate. His track record speaks for itself...

Plus, like the footage shows, I don't see another NBA player matching this guy in terms of speed, size, quickness, agility, strength, coordination, skillset and fluidity. Some guys may have a few of these, but not all! You add in that drive/competitive attribute and that's a recipe for the Goat.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#74 » by og15 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:42 pm

draftnightsuit wrote:
MoochieNorris wrote:op i like your style.

anyone who says mike wouldn't be able to hang today is straight up coping.

he averaged 37 a game in 86-87 when defenses were arguably at peak physicality.

he'd average 40 easy in today's game. his scoring numbers would look like wilt's in this day and age.
this man beat magic, clyde, chuck, malone, stockton and payton/kemp for his rings(with the team who drafted him unlike false GOATs who squad up with other all stars) and people are gonna act like he had it easy. on the way there he took out people like shaq, ewing, reggie, zeke.

what else do you want from him?

this man changed the world. he's the reason that 90% of everyone under 40 here follows the NBA.


There was absolutely no defense in the NBA in 1987. The pace was also faster back then.

Walter Davis averaged 24 PPG in 1987 LOL

MJ would have absolutely zero chance of touching 37 PPG today. He’d struggle to get to 30 PPG without a 3-point shot, which he never had.

The only time he was able to shoot was when they pushed in the 3-point line.

Hmm...so what about this?

Regular 3PT line, 89-90 to 92-93:
    322 regular season games, 668 3PA, 34.3% 3PT
    74 playoff games, 192 3PA, 37.0% 3PT


The stats are readily available, so it's pretty lazy for someone to not actually double check, this isn't something that we have to theorize, there's real life data, so I don't get it.

It's similarly lazy when someone says a player would struggle to get 30 ppg without a 3PT shot in a league where just a few seasons ago with slower pace and lower league wide Ortg, Derozan, a not so impressive player compared to true stars easily put up 27 ppg in just 35.4 mpg without a three point shot.

Is there any idea of consistency or logic in this kind of argumentation, or is it just saying stuff and hoping enough people don't notice the bad opinions and hoping that some people who aren't thinking critically buy it? I'm seriously curious, because I see no other logical reason why someone would so boldly and publically post things that suggest they have very bad basketball understanding and don't actually have a clue how the 3PT shot actually affects an individual players ability to score now.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#75 » by og15 » Fri May 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Antinomy wrote:
draftnightsuit wrote:
MoochieNorris wrote:op i like your style.

anyone who says mike wouldn't be able to hang today is straight up coping.

he averaged 37 a game in 86-87 when defenses were arguably at peak physicality.

he'd average 40 easy in today's game. his scoring numbers would look like wilt's in this day and age.
this man beat magic, clyde, chuck, malone, stockton and payton/kemp for his rings(with the team who drafted him unlike false GOATs who squad up with other all stars) and people are gonna act like he had it easy. on the way there he took out people like shaq, ewing, reggie, zeke.

what else do you want from him?

this man changed the world. he's the reason that 90% of everyone under 40 here follows the NBA.


There was absolutely no defense in the NBA in 1987. The pace was also faster back then.

Walter Davis averaged 24 PPG in 1987 LOL

MJ would have absolutely zero chance of touching 37 PPG today. He’d struggle to get to 30 PPG without a 3-point shot, which he never had.

The only time he was able to shoot was when they pushed in the 3-point line.


Lol. That dude didn’t watch a second of Michael Jordan. He’s just regurgitating an autobiography. Anytime you see someone present Jordan’s career the way he did, you know he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Notice the name-dropping & “physical defense” trope. Maybe he doesn’t know that 1987 was the highest paced season in the past 40 years.

The pace in 86-87 was 100.8, every season in the 80's before that was faster. The pace this season is 100.2, the pace last season was 100. A 0.6 and 0.8 difference in pace is statistically insignificant when it comes to players production.

Jordan's team specifically was last in pace at 95.8 in 86-87 which is equal to (15-16) or lower than (16-17 to 19-20) the average pace in each of the last 5 seasons. Again, like I said to the other poster, these statistics are widely available, at least do some homework before just posting the first thing that comes to mind trying to get a "gotcha" or something. Since 13-14, there have been around 7-8 teams with 95.8 pace or higher each season. In 18-19 every team was higher than that, this season so far, only Charlotte who is last in pace at 95.8 is the same, all other 29 teams are higher. The league leading Bucks are playing 9.2 more possessions a game than the Bulls did. In 17-18, 24 teams had a higher pace than 95.8.

So actually if Jordan's 86-87 team was playing at these past two seasons average or league bottom (as his team was) pace, he would still be in the same position to put up 37 ppg in the same minutes, but the reason he probably wouldn't if he's for example on the slowest paced team isn't 3PT shooting or pace, it would be that he probably would play around 37 mpg instead of 40 mpg. At around a point per minute, that brings him down to 34-35 ppg playing 37 mpg on the league's slowest team.

It's good to be more comprehensive in examining data, this kind of examination just doesn't help any good basketball conversation.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#76 » by otwok » Fri May 22, 2020 3:23 pm

I love Michael Jordan. I think he's the GOAT. But I find these threads to be unnecessary. Anybody who says that Jordan, or any greats couldn't hang today or vice versa either doesn't know anything about basketball or is just trolling and doesn't deserve your time.

All the top players from the past could probably hang today and many of the greats today could hang then. Of course there are players that are built for their time and would struggle if they played in a different time but basketball hasn't changed. You play defense, you put the ball in the basket and the goal is to win the game by scoring more than your opponent, regardless of how you plan to do that.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#77 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Fri May 22, 2020 4:03 pm

Alize wrote:Lol, you can cleary see the struggling from 88 to 90. Delusional.
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
No. Jordan literally struggled against Dumars for years. Every year. Same problem over and over again. Jordan said Dumars was the best defender he's ever faced and the only one that checked him for an entire game.


Jordan's numbers vs the Pistons:
86-87 - 40 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.7 apg, 46% FG
87-88 - 38 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 48% FG
88-89 - 27.7 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 9.2 apg, 45% FG
89-90 - 26 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 5.0 apg, 43% FG
90-91 - 31.6ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 53% FG
91-92 - 25.8ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.6 apg, 52% FG
92-93 - 31 ppg, 7 rpg, 4.5 apg, 49% FG
94-95 (only 2 games because he just came back) - 23 ppg, 8.5rpg, 8 apg, 49% FG
95-96 - 37.8 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 54.5% FG
96-97 - 19.8, 7 rpg, 6 apg, 42% FG
97-98 - 25 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 6.5 apg, 40% FG

Wouldn't exactly call that "struggling".


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Read the quote to which I was replying to. He said that Jordan struggled "every year". Seems like your reading comprehension could use a little bit of work.
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#78 » by KGtabake » Fri May 22, 2020 4:10 pm

He averaged 37.1ppg on a season he made ....12 3s. In total.
Harden averaged 36.1ppg last season until April with 373 made 3s. That's 361 more 3 pointers.
Think about that for a second.

Regarding athleticism think how many athletes today can actually dunk from the FT line.
LeBron, Giannis, Jones Jr, LaVine...and maybe 1-2 more?

Only the fact that we actually discuss this is laughable(with all the respect)
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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#79 » by Alize » Fri May 22, 2020 4:24 pm

Westbrook says hi
Chevymana wrote:

This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.


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Re: Michael Jordan would really struggle against today's athletes 

Post#80 » by Chevymana » Fri May 22, 2020 4:34 pm

Alize wrote:Westbrook says hi
Chevymana wrote:

This video says otherwise. What's crazy is, I don't know if there is an athlete in today's current NBA that can match this guy in terms of speed, quickness, agility, strength, coordination (take into account ALL of these elements). Remember, this is a video of a man playing over 30 yrs ago and still looks better than everybody we have today. PLEASE LOOK AT THIS OBJECTIVELY AND TAKE YOUR FEELINGS OUT OF IT!!! This guy would murder this current NBA.


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I actually thought about Westbrook and D Rose (pre-injuries)...but still the size and skillset attributes (to me) don't put them in his echelon. Some of the things and moves that he was doing on that video is absolute poetry! He was strong and athletic, yet nimble...couple that with his moves; his countermoves had countermoves (one of the biggest differences between him and Lebron). He was just so damn difficult to stop (and an absolute terror on defense).

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