Why do people want to cancel rest of the season?

[basketballRob]

Empty gyms, nuetral locations, a 3 month mid-season break, and an arbitrary playoff seeding is not NBA basketball.

We could wait the 2 or 3 years until they get a reliable vaccine. So just plan on starting in 2023?

For those people who want to take off the year because of the virus, it'll be here next year and then what?

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

Health is generally most important. Oh and when a player gets sick (it almost certainly happens) in the middle of a playoff series and can't play it's going to be really interesting and awkward. We've got a distinct chance of having entire teams quarantine in the middle of a playoff or a major player getting sick.

Oh and again, health. Yeah IDC if the Lakers or whoever win, but health is more important than basketball.

Shams said today they don't plan on quarantining the whole team if one player tests positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Nuntius]

Your conclusions are correct [in this current cycle, Democrats have very little power to affect change], but I fear your understanding of our Governments structure might be lacking. America is not like the UK. We do not have a Parliament were the controlling party makes all of the decisions.

America has an elected leader entirely separate from our Legislative branch. Our Legislative branch consists of a House [representation determined by population] and a Senate [two per state]. Typically speaking, any bill that passes has to go through all number of political parties in both the House and Senate before being signed into law by the President. Yes, the President can veto, but even that can be overridden.

Right now, we currently have Republicans in control of the Senate and Presidency. They also have a majority in the highest court of our Judicial branch. The only majority, I believe, Democrats have in the Federal Government lies in the House of Representatives, but anything passed there has to go through the Republican controlled Senate.

TL;DR: You are correct that Republicans are making most of the decisions relating to the pandemic, but that is not an inherent flaw in our system of government. The amount of checks and balances over here is typically so cumbersome that it is a common criticism for why our Government takes so long to accomplish anything. Most Presidents that make it to a second term almost always seem to lose control of the Legislative branch [if it was aligned with their party to begin with] after four years. At that point, anything they want to accomplish must go through the other party.

I was aware of that (mainly due to the Current Affairs board, I'm not going to lie) but I can see how the way I phrased my argument above would make one think that I was unaware. I was trying to frame my argument in a general, as opposed to a US-specific, context since I wanted to talk about Sweden and not just the US. It's definitely true that even among liberal democratic political systems there's a fair bit of variety and that not every liberal democratic political system is the same.

In any case, though, I appreciate the information that you posted

I wanted to write that I was aware you probably knew most of that, but the post was already too long. This board has grown decidedly more international over the last 20 years [a great thing in my opinion]. I felt it important enough to re-establish a baseline before further conversation.

It was important, I agree. I would probably have done the same if I were you.

Sweden definitely has me confused. I thought their Government was far further left than ours and had a well established safety net already in place. To me, that indicates they could easily afford most distancing programs which would, at the very least, buy them some time to keep people from dying.

Their statements on "herd immunity," have also been very confusing. Is that the goal or not? Their last test showed something like ~10% had been infected. Effective herd immunity requires at least 60-70% of the population to have anti-bodies, yet they said their latest test was only a few percentage points off from what they expected.

To me, this indicates that either they are absolutely certain this thing is not going away anytime soon and we will all contract it at some point.. or, what? I don't get it.

It definitely is further to left than the US government. The current government of Sweden is a coalition between the Social Democrats and the Green Party (both parties are generally considered to be centre-left). That said, they are a minority government (ie. the two governing parties do not have the majority in the Rikstag, the Swedish parliament) and thus rely on confidence and supply from two other parties to pass any legislation. Those other parties are the Centre Party (a Nordic agrarian party, generally placed on the centre, maybe leaning a bit centre-right particularly in economics) and the Liberals (a centre-right party that is affiliated with the ALDE at a EU level). It is not the strongest of minority governments which perhaps could explain why they've taken such a hands-off approach.

Whatever the case may be, they've definitely made a mistake on Covid-19, imo, and deserve a lot of criticism for it.

[hippesthippo]

I was aware of that (mainly due to the Current Affairs board, I'm not going to lie) but I can see how the way I phrased my argument above would make one think that I was unaware. I was trying to frame my argument in a general, as opposed to a US-specific, context since I wanted to talk about Sweden and not just the US. It's definitely true that even among liberal democratic political systems there's a fair bit of variety and that not every liberal democratic political system is the same.

In any case, though, I appreciate the information that you posted

I wanted to write that I was aware you probably knew most of that, but the post was already too long. This board has grown decidedly more international over the last 20 years [a great thing in my opinion]. I felt it important enough to re-establish a baseline before further conversation.

It was important, I agree. I would probably have done the same if I were you.

Sweden definitely has me confused. I thought their Government was far further left than ours and had a well established safety net already in place. To me, that indicates they could easily afford most distancing programs which would, at the very least, buy them some time to keep people from dying.

Their statements on "herd immunity," have also been very confusing. Is that the goal or not? Their last test showed something like ~10% had been infected. Effective herd immunity requires at least 60-70% of the population to have anti-bodies, yet they said their latest test was only a few percentage points off from what they expected.

To me, this indicates that either they are absolutely certain this thing is not going away anytime soon and we will all contract it at some point.. or, what? I don't get it.

It definitely is further to left than the US government. The current government of Sweden is a coalition between the Social Democrats and the Green Party (both parties are generally considered to be centre-left). That said, they are a minority government (ie. the two governing parties do not have the majority in the Rikstag, the Swedish parliament) and thus rely on confidence and supply from two other parties to pass any legislation. Those other parties are the Centre Party (a Nordic agrarian party, generally placed on the centre, maybe leaning a bit centre-right particularly in economics) and the Liberals (a centre-right party that is affiliated with the ALDE at a EU level). It is not the strongest of minority governments which perhaps could explain why they've taken such a hands-off approach.

Whatever the case may be, they've definitely made a mistake on Covid-19, imo, and deserve a lot of criticism for it.

Ahhhh, politics. If there is one thing this situation has reinforced in my mind, it is the speed with which authoritarian governments are able to act.

[Nuntius]

I wanted to write that I was aware you probably knew most of that, but the post was already too long. This board has grown decidedly more international over the last 20 years [a great thing in my opinion]. I felt it important enough to re-establish a baseline before further conversation.

It was important, I agree. I would probably have done the same if I were you.

Sweden definitely has me confused. I thought their Government was far further left than ours and had a well established safety net already in place. To me, that indicates they could easily afford most distancing programs which would, at the very least, buy them some time to keep people from dying.

Their statements on "herd immunity," have also been very confusing. Is that the goal or not? Their last test showed something like ~10% had been infected. Effective herd immunity requires at least 60-70% of the population to have anti-bodies, yet they said their latest test was only a few percentage points off from what they expected.

To me, this indicates that either they are absolutely certain this thing is not going away anytime soon and we will all contract it at some point.. or, what? I don't get it.

It definitely is further to left than the US government. The current government of Sweden is a coalition between the Social Democrats and the Green Party (both parties are generally considered to be centre-left). That said, they are a minority government (ie. the two governing parties do not have the majority in the Rikstag, the Swedish parliament) and thus rely on confidence and supply from two other parties to pass any legislation. Those other parties are the Centre Party (a Nordic agrarian party, generally placed on the centre, maybe leaning a bit centre-right particularly in economics) and the Liberals (a centre-right party that is affiliated with the ALDE at a EU level). It is not the strongest of minority governments which perhaps could explain why they've taken such a hands-off approach.

Whatever the case may be, they've definitely made a mistake on Covid-19, imo, and deserve a lot of criticism for it.

Ahhhh, politics. If there is one thing this situation has reinforced in my mind, it is the speed with which authoritarian governments are able to act.

Some liberal democratic countries have been able to act fast as well. It just requires unity. That or a widespread fear that your country's health care system won't be able to survive a big wave of Covid-19 patients. As a Greek, I'm pretty sure that it was the latter that forced us to act quickly and decisively. All those years of the Memoranda agreements and the tough austerity have crippled our health care system and we all (politicians and citizens alike) were damn sure that we wouldn't be able to handle a big wave.

[hippesthippo]

It was important, I agree. I would probably have done the same if I were you.



It definitely is further to left than the US government. The current government of Sweden is a coalition between the Social Democrats and the Green Party (both parties are generally considered to be centre-left). That said, they are a minority government (ie. the two governing parties do not have the majority in the Rikstag, the Swedish parliament) and thus rely on confidence and supply from two other parties to pass any legislation. Those other parties are the Centre Party (a Nordic agrarian party, generally placed on the centre, maybe leaning a bit centre-right particularly in economics) and the Liberals (a centre-right party that is affiliated with the ALDE at a EU level). It is not the strongest of minority governments which perhaps could explain why they've taken such a hands-off approach.

Whatever the case may be, they've definitely made a mistake on Covid-19, imo, and deserve a lot of criticism for it.

Ahhhh, politics. If there is one thing this situation has reinforced in my mind, it is the speed with which authoritarian governments are able to act.

Some liberal democratic countries have been able to act fast as well. It just requires unity. That or a widespread fear that your country's health care system won't be able to survive a big wave of Covid-19 patients. As a Greek, I'm pretty sure that it was the latter that forced us to act quickly and decisively. All those years of the Memoranda agreements and the tough austerity have crippled our health care system and we all (politicians and citizens alike) were damn sure that we wouldn't be able to handle a big wave.

That is a good point. I've been overly cynical.

[Nuntius]

Ahhhh, politics. If there is one thing this situation has reinforced in my mind, it is the speed with which authoritarian governments are able to act.

Some liberal democratic countries have been able to act fast as well. It just requires unity. That or a widespread fear that your country's health care system won't be able to survive a big wave of Covid-19 patients. As a Greek, I'm pretty sure that it was the latter that forced us to act quickly and decisively. All those years of the Memoranda agreements and the tough austerity have crippled our health care system and we all (politicians and citizens alike) were damn sure that we wouldn't be able to handle a big wave.

That is a good point. I've been overly cynical.

I get it, though. Situations like this can easily make one adopt a cynical outlook.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

Good point. The mental health of tens of millions of folks world wide would benefit from watching their favourite players play.

Wow, are you serious? Entertainment over humanity?

I find it very believable that many people's mental would be better benefited by their everyday life getting back to normal first not some celebrity athletes running up and down a basketball court playing a game.

Even my societal conditioning has been conditioned.

That certainly won't happen anytime soon. But up here in Ontario it's back to business as usual and most places and you can't avoid the risk if you work in a public place. I would love to be working in a quarantined bubble

So why should non essential athletic entertainers be treated differently, better than the citizenry workforce?

[bondom34]

Health is generally most important. Oh and when a player gets sick (it almost certainly happens) in the middle of a playoff series and can't play it's going to be really interesting and awkward. We've got a distinct chance of having entire teams quarantine in the middle of a playoff or a major player getting sick.

Oh and again, health. Yeah IDC if the Lakers or whoever win, but health is more important than basketball.

Shams said today they don't plan on quarantining the whole team if one player tests positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Well....here's hoping. Thought I'd read that earlier but guess not. If doctors deem it safe, whatever, but people will be yelling for an asterisk.

Ultimately I'm just not comfortable with it, and it seems so dumb during a pandemic that this is such a major concern to many and an atrocity that people might not feel great about athletic competitions being prioritized in a time like this.

In the end I'm just going to roll with whatever scientists say is safe but its still uncomfortable to me, and hearing more thoughts on it I also get the idea maybe this is worse in December and they end up punting 2 years in that case, which makes sense to me.

I see both sides I guess but don't feel great and it feels like something that might open up for a 2nd cancellation and the entire thing being shut down even longer but I'm willing to hear a science based case against it.

[chitownsalesmen]

Health is generally most important. Oh and when a player gets sick (it almost certainly happens) in the middle of a playoff series and can't play it's going to be really interesting and awkward. We've got a distinct chance of having entire teams quarantine in the middle of a playoff or a major player getting sick.

Oh and again, health. Yeah IDC if the Lakers or whoever win, but health is more important than basketball.

Shams said today they don't plan on quarantining the whole team if one player tests positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Well....here's hoping. Thought I'd read that earlier but guess not. If doctors deem it safe, whatever, but people will be yelling for an asterisk.

Ultimately I'm just not comfortable with it, and it seems so dumb during a pandemic that this is such a major concern to many and an atrocity that people might not feel great about athletic competitions being prioritized in a time like this.

In the end I'm just going to roll with whatever scientists say is safe but its still uncomfortable to me, and hearing more thoughts on it I also get the idea maybe this is worse in December and they end up punting 2 years in that case, which makes sense to me.

I see both sides I guess but don't feel great and it feels like something that might open up for a 2nd cancellation and the entire thing being shut down even longer but I'm willing to hear a science based case against it.

Theirs likely to be a vaccine with 100% effectiveness by end of the year. Make it through the summer, hopefully the docs and scientists get that vaccine out by winter and it should be ok moving forward.

[bondom34]

Shams said today they don't plan on quarantining the whole team if one player tests positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Well....here's hoping. Thought I'd read that earlier but guess not. If doctors deem it safe, whatever, but people will be yelling for an asterisk.

Ultimately I'm just not comfortable with it, and it seems so dumb during a pandemic that this is such a major concern to many and an atrocity that people might not feel great about athletic competitions being prioritized in a time like this.

In the end I'm just going to roll with whatever scientists say is safe but its still uncomfortable to me, and hearing more thoughts on it I also get the idea maybe this is worse in December and they end up punting 2 years in that case, which makes sense to me.

I see both sides I guess but don't feel great and it feels like something that might open up for a 2nd cancellation and the entire thing being shut down even longer but I'm willing to hear a science based case against it.

Theirs likely to be a vaccine with 100% effectiveness by end of the year. Make it through the summer, hopefully the docs and scientists get that vaccine out by winter and it should be ok moving forward.

That's very much not likely

[JustLucky]

Wow, are you serious? Entertainment over humanity?

I find it very believable that many people's mental would be better benefited by their everyday life getting back to normal first not some celebrity athletes running up and down a basketball court playing a game.

Even my societal conditioning has been conditioned.

That certainly won't happen anytime soon. But up here in Ontario it's back to business as usual and most places and you can't avoid the risk if you work in a public place. I would love to be working in a quarantined bubble

So why should non essential athletic entertainers be treated differently, better than the citizenry workforce?

its not different in the workforce its mostly bossiness as usual with added social distancing which is somewhat followed. The nba would practice social distancing outside of games and quarantine them from the outside worlds (or should)

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

That certainly won't happen anytime soon. But up here in Ontario it's back to business as usual and most places and you can't avoid the risk if you work in a public place. I would love to be working in a quarantined bubble

So why should non essential athletic entertainers be treated differently, better than the citizenry workforce?

its not different in the workforce its mostly bossiness as usual with added social distancing which is somewhat followed. The nba would practice social distancing outside of games and quarantine them from the outside worlds (or should)

Jared Dudley just said that players will be able to leave a potential quarantine area. So doesn't that defeat the theoretical quarantine purpose?

Entertainment is not essential for the average working citizen that is struggling to buy food, pay bills, pay mortgage/rent, keep their business operating and the like.

Entertainment is only essential for the power elite to keep a segment of society distracted while society by large falls apart. It's the Roman Circus societal theory in effect mode. Let them have entertainment...

[chitownsalesmen]

Well....here's hoping. Thought I'd read that earlier but guess not. If doctors deem it safe, whatever, but people will be yelling for an asterisk.

Ultimately I'm just not comfortable with it, and it seems so dumb during a pandemic that this is such a major concern to many and an atrocity that people might not feel great about athletic competitions being prioritized in a time like this.

In the end I'm just going to roll with whatever scientists say is safe but its still uncomfortable to me, and hearing more thoughts on it I also get the idea maybe this is worse in December and they end up punting 2 years in that case, which makes sense to me.

I see both sides I guess but don't feel great and it feels like something that might open up for a 2nd cancellation and the entire thing being shut down even longer but I'm willing to hear a science based case against it.

Theirs likely to be a vaccine with 100% effectiveness by end of the year. Make it through the summer, hopefully the docs and scientists get that vaccine out by winter and it should be ok moving forward.

That's very much not likely

actually,

Watch on YouTube

https://www.timesofisrael.com/head-of-pfizer-pharmaceuticals-says-vaccine-could-be-ready-by-october/

yeah as I was saying a week ago, its looking very much like we will have vaccines by end of the year.


I'm really not trying to a strawman, but why do some people seem to want to continually make the worse possible case scenario about covid? Like obviously it's bad, its really bad this is the greatest challenge we've face since World-war 2, but their is a lot of positive news that some people just immediately dismiss

[bondom34]

Theirs likely to be a vaccine with 100% effectiveness by end of the year. Make it through the summer, hopefully the docs and scientists get that vaccine out by winter and it should be ok moving forward.

That's very much not likely

actually,

Watch on YouTube

https://www.timesofisrael.com/head-of-pfizer-pharmaceuticals-says-vaccine-could-be-ready-by-october/

yeah as I was saying a week ago, its looking very much like we will have vaccines by end of the year.


I'm really not trying to a strawman, but why do some people seem to want to continually make the worse possible case scenario about covid? Like obviously it's bad, its really bad this is the greatest challenge we've face since World-war 2, but their is a lot of positive news that some people just immediately dismiss

You just linked to an emergency vaccine in an article that said it would be a daunting task to have one this year. And at quick glance, the site is promoting HCQ. Basically:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/safe-coronavirus-vaccine-years-eve/story?id=70457112

Experts interviewed by ABC warned that developing a vaccine within a 12-month time frame could mean throwing normal scientific standards out the window, but added that a vaccine could be available by the new year if everything goes perfectly.

So if everything goes absolutely perfect and we throw out testing standards we might have something, and even then it wouldn't be enough for the whole population yet. It is "possible", its just not likely. And at this point many people would rather be safe with it, it's not about making the worst possible scenario, we've already seen enough death from it. I don't see why it's viewed as a negative that people would rather be safe.

[chitownsalesmen]

That's very much not likely

actually,

Watch on YouTube

https://www.timesofisrael.com/head-of-pfizer-pharmaceuticals-says-vaccine-could-be-ready-by-october/

yeah as I was saying a week ago, its looking very much like we will have vaccines by end of the year.


I'm really not trying to a strawman, but why do some people seem to want to continually make the worse possible case scenario about covid? Like obviously it's bad, its really bad this is the greatest challenge we've face since World-war 2, but their is a lot of positive news that some people just immediately dismiss

You just linked to an emergency vaccine in an article that said it would be a daunting task to have one this year. And at quick glance, the site is promoting HCQ. Basically:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/safe-coronavirus-vaccine-years-eve/story?id=70457112

Experts interviewed by ABC warned that developing a vaccine within a 12-month time frame could mean throwing normal scientific standards out the window, but added that a vaccine could be available by the new year if everything goes perfectly.

So if everything goes absolutely perfect and we throw out testing standards we might have something, and even then it wouldn't be enough for the whole population yet. It is "possible", its just not likely. And at this point many people would rather be safe with it, it's not about making the worst possible scenario, we've already seen enough death from it. I don't see why it's viewed as a negative that people would rather be safe.

Guess you choose to ignored the 40k people that have already gotten the Oxford Vaccine. Theirs a lot of COVID-19 Vaccines in the pipe line and a few have shown tremendous results, I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but theirs a lot of positive news coming from the vaccine side of this equation. I would love to make a bet with you that we have a vaccine by the end of the year, I suspect you wouldn't be interested due to your political leanings or whatever is motivating your posts in this thread.

Talking about coivd-19 and vaccines is fine. Do not bring politics into it, however relevant you feel they are. It derails the discussion. Next political de-railing is a strike.

[bondom34]

actually,

Watch on YouTube

https://www.timesofisrael.com/head-of-pfizer-pharmaceuticals-says-vaccine-could-be-ready-by-october/

yeah as I was saying a week ago, its looking very much like we will have vaccines by end of the year.


I'm really not trying to a strawman, but why do some people seem to want to continually make the worse possible case scenario about covid? Like obviously it's bad, its really bad this is the greatest challenge we've face since World-war 2, but their is a lot of positive news that some people just immediately dismiss

You just linked to an emergency vaccine in an article that said it would be a daunting task to have one this year. And at quick glance, the site is promoting HCQ. Basically:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/safe-coronavirus-vaccine-years-eve/story?id=70457112

Experts interviewed by ABC warned that developing a vaccine within a 12-month time frame could mean throwing normal scientific standards out the window, but added that a vaccine could be available by the new year if everything goes perfectly.

So if everything goes absolutely perfect and we throw out testing standards we might have something, and even then it wouldn't be enough for the whole population yet. It is "possible", its just not likely. And at this point many people would rather be safe with it, it's not about making the worst possible scenario, we've already seen enough death from it. I don't see why it's viewed as a negative that people would rather be safe.

Guess you choose to ignored the 40k people that have already gotten the Oxford Vaccine. Theirs a lot of COVID-19 Vaccines in the pipe line and a few have shown tremendous results, I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but theirs a lot of positive news coming from the vaccine side of this equation. I would love to make a bet with you that we have a vaccine by the end of the year, I suspect you wouldn't be interested due to your political leanings or whatever is motivating your posts in this thread.

Safety? I haven't mentioned politics once because it shouldn't be relevant. That's for the CA board, not here. (edited) It has potential to go downhill quickly, and if it does we lose next season, which is another concern. Some players have underlying conditions and don't feel comfortable being there which I do have a big concern for them and their familiies. As well we've basically had an entire offseason and are already cutting next offseason short, it's getting late early. I don't see why people should be told they're wrong for feeling unsafe during a pandemic. Especially with long term health issues possible as side effects, and some coaches/staff being older or at risk.

Edit: I'll say it again, I'm just following whatever experts say in terms of if a return is safe no matter how I feel. I go back and forth, my concerns are safety and losing next season too, and that maybe it's a little better if they wait. Basically I've come to accept it and am coming around, but I'm not totally comfortable. My personal hope/thought is that it's better by October/November/December and they have it better set up for then. But I'll again defer to experts, and who really knows (because they admit they don't either). I'm prepping mentally for no college football and am bummed but hope that ends up happening.


I'll spoiler (and another within said spoiler) for vaccine stuff:

Spoiler:

However as a scientist by profession I don't see the vaccine likely on that timeline, and quick check on the Oxford vaccine...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-update-news-trials-covid-19-coronavirus/

I don't see that many being administered (I've searched for numbers, but the test totals I find aren't near that). They're not actually tested, they're trials, and quote is spoilered for brevity:


[spoiler]

"All of the vaccinated monkeys treated with the Oxford vaccine became infected when challenged as judged by recovery of virus genomic RNA from nasal secretions," said Dr William Haseltine, a former Harvard Medical School professor who had a pivotal role in the development of early HIV/Aids treatments.

"There was no difference in the amount of viral RNA detected from this site in the vaccinated monkeys as compared to the unvaccinated animals. Which is to say, all vaccinated animals were infected," Dr Haseltine wrote in the article on Forbes.

They gave an extra high dose of virus to test, bit note they don't really know it works. Sports are returning, but a vaccine, and fans aren't for a while. And I'm still not comfortable with it, but it's happening, a vaccine is not likely widespread, or at all, that soon. I hope it is, but as someone who works in science it's very very very very doubtful. And the chances it gets produced, approved, and is for widespread public use are pretty much zero.[/spoiler]

So nobody's cheering against this going well, or rooting against a return of basketball. It's just that we're in an unprecedented time right now, and it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with. I'm getting there, but then I think about it and I'm still not totally and feel that we're so far into it it might be best just to start next year fresh and get in a full offseason and normal season. But the bigger thing is that experts admit they don't know everything, nobody does. It's a novel virus. In summation, safety, timeline, and hoping it might be better by later in the year. But safety is by far the concern at the heart of the matter.

I (as people honestly should) admit I don't know it all especially on this virus. But the entire schedule of the season has been thrown. If they deem it safe, then they do and I can't do anything but trust people who are experts. Oh and 100% support any player whos not comfortable sitting out at this point, some guys or their families are at risk.

Apologies this was a longer post, hoping I got my general feelings/concerns across and was hopefully clear. All I've said itt is safety is the concern.

[slamilcarBarca]

So why should non essential athletic entertainers be treated differently, better than the citizenry workforce?

its not different in the workforce its mostly bossiness as usual with added social distancing which is somewhat followed. The nba would practice social distancing outside of games and quarantine them from the outside worlds (or should)

Jared Dudley just said that players will be able to leave a potential quarantine area. So doesn't that defeat the theoretical quarantine purpose?

Entertainment is not essential for the average working citizen that is struggling to buy food, pay bills, pay mortgage/rent, keep their business operating and the like.

Entertainment is only essential for the power elite to keep a segment of society distracted while society by large falls apart. It's the Roman Circus societal theory in effect mode. Let them have entertainment...

Watch on YouTube

[chitownsalesmen]

You just linked to an emergency vaccine in an article that said it would be a daunting task to have one this year. And at quick glance, the site is promoting HCQ. Basically:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/safe-coronavirus-vaccine-years-eve/story?id=70457112



So if everything goes absolutely perfect and we throw out testing standards we might have something, and even then it wouldn't be enough for the whole population yet. It is "possible", its just not likely. And at this point many people would rather be safe with it, it's not about making the worst possible scenario, we've already seen enough death from it. I don't see why it's viewed as a negative that people would rather be safe.

Guess you choose to ignored the 40k people that have already gotten the Oxford Vaccine. Theirs a lot of COVID-19 Vaccines in the pipe line and a few have shown tremendous results, I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but theirs a lot of positive news coming from the vaccine side of this equation. I would love to make a bet with you that we have a vaccine by the end of the year, I suspect you wouldn't be interested due to your political leanings or whatever is motivating your posts in this thread.

Safety? I haven't mentioned politics once because it shouldn't be relevant. That's for the CA board, not here. (edited) It has potential to go downhill quickly, and if it does we lose next season, which is another concern. Some players have underlying conditions and don't feel comfortable being there which I do have a big concern for them and their familiies. As well we've basically had an entire offseason and are already cutting next offseason short, it's getting late early. I don't see why people should be told they're wrong for feeling unsafe during a pandemic. Especially with long term health issues possible as side effects, and some coaches/staff being older or at risk.

Edit: I'll say it again, I'm just following whatever experts say in terms of if a return is safe no matter how I feel. I go back and forth, my concerns are safety and losing next season too, and that maybe it's a little better if they wait. Basically I've come to accept it and am coming around, but I'm not totally comfortable. My personal hope/thought is that it's better by October/November/December and they have it better set up for then. But I'll again defer to experts, and who really knows (because they admit they don't either). I'm prepping mentally for no college football and am bummed but hope that ends up happening.


I'll spoiler (and another within said spoiler) for vaccine stuff:

Spoiler:

However as a scientist by profession I don't see the vaccine likely on that timeline, and quick check on the Oxford vaccine...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-update-news-trials-covid-19-coronavirus/

I don't see that many being administered (I've searched for numbers, but the test totals I find aren't near that). They're not actually tested, they're trials, and quote is spoilered for brevity:


[spoiler]

"All of the vaccinated monkeys treated with the Oxford vaccine became infected when challenged as judged by recovery of virus genomic RNA from nasal secretions," said Dr William Haseltine, a former Harvard Medical School professor who had a pivotal role in the development of early HIV/Aids treatments.

"There was no difference in the amount of viral RNA detected from this site in the vaccinated monkeys as compared to the unvaccinated animals. Which is to say, all vaccinated animals were infected," Dr Haseltine wrote in the article on Forbes.

They gave an extra high dose of virus to test, bit note they don't really know it works. Sports are returning, but a vaccine, and fans aren't for a while. And I'm still not comfortable with it, but it's happening, a vaccine is not likely widespread, or at all, that soon. I hope it is, but as someone who works in science it's very very very very doubtful. And the chances it gets produced, approved, and is for widespread public use are pretty much zero.[/spoiler]

So nobody's cheering against this going well, or rooting against a return of basketball. It's just that we're in an unprecedented time right now, and it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with. I'm getting there, but then I think about it and I'm still not totally and feel that we're so far into it it might be best just to start next year fresh and get in a full offseason and normal season. But the bigger thing is that experts admit they don't know everything, nobody does. It's a novel virus. In summation, safety, timeline, and hoping it might be better by later in the year. But safety is by far the concern at the heart of the matter.

I (as people honestly should) admit I don't know it all especially on this virus. But the entire schedule of the season has been thrown. If they deem it safe, then they do and I can't do anything but trust people who are experts. Oh and 100% support any player whos not comfortable sitting out at this point, some guys or their families are at risk.

Apologies this was a longer post, hoping I got my general feelings/concerns across and was hopefully clear. All I've said itt is safety is the concern.

https://www.jpost.com/international/pfizer-projects-october-release-date-for-coronavirus-vaccine-629980

you must be some scientist

[bondom34]

Guess you choose to ignored the 40k people that have already gotten the Oxford Vaccine. Theirs a lot of COVID-19 Vaccines in the pipe line and a few have shown tremendous results, I dislike Trump as much as the next guy but theirs a lot of positive news coming from the vaccine side of this equation. I would love to make a bet with you that we have a vaccine by the end of the year, I suspect you wouldn't be interested due to your political leanings or whatever is motivating your posts in this thread.

Safety? I haven't mentioned politics once because it shouldn't be relevant. That's for the CA board, not here. (edited) It has potential to go downhill quickly, and if it does we lose next season, which is another concern. Some players have underlying conditions and don't feel comfortable being there which I do have a big concern for them and their familiies. As well we've basically had an entire offseason and are already cutting next offseason short, it's getting late early. I don't see why people should be told they're wrong for feeling unsafe during a pandemic. Especially with long term health issues possible as side effects, and some coaches/staff being older or at risk.

Edit: I'll say it again, I'm just following whatever experts say in terms of if a return is safe no matter how I feel. I go back and forth, my concerns are safety and losing next season too, and that maybe it's a little better if they wait. Basically I've come to accept it and am coming around, but I'm not totally comfortable. My personal hope/thought is that it's better by October/November/December and they have it better set up for then. But I'll again defer to experts, and who really knows (because they admit they don't either). I'm prepping mentally for no college football and am bummed but hope that ends up happening.


I'll spoiler (and another within said spoiler) for vaccine stuff:

Spoiler:

However as a scientist by profession I don't see the vaccine likely on that timeline, and quick check on the Oxford vaccine...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-update-news-trials-covid-19-coronavirus/

I don't see that many being administered (I've searched for numbers, but the test totals I find aren't near that). They're not actually tested, they're trials, and quote is spoilered for brevity:


[spoiler]

"All of the vaccinated monkeys treated with the Oxford vaccine became infected when challenged as judged by recovery of virus genomic RNA from nasal secretions," said Dr William Haseltine, a former Harvard Medical School professor who had a pivotal role in the development of early HIV/Aids treatments.

"There was no difference in the amount of viral RNA detected from this site in the vaccinated monkeys as compared to the unvaccinated animals. Which is to say, all vaccinated animals were infected," Dr Haseltine wrote in the article on Forbes.

They gave an extra high dose of virus to test, bit note they don't really know it works. Sports are returning, but a vaccine, and fans aren't for a while. And I'm still not comfortable with it, but it's happening, a vaccine is not likely widespread, or at all, that soon. I hope it is, but as someone who works in science it's very very very very doubtful. And the chances it gets produced, approved, and is for widespread public use are pretty much zero.[/spoiler]

So nobody's cheering against this going well, or rooting against a return of basketball. It's just that we're in an unprecedented time right now, and it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with. I'm getting there, but then I think about it and I'm still not totally and feel that we're so far into it it might be best just to start next year fresh and get in a full offseason and normal season. But the bigger thing is that experts admit they don't know everything, nobody does. It's a novel virus. In summation, safety, timeline, and hoping it might be better by later in the year. But safety is by far the concern at the heart of the matter.

I (as people honestly should) admit I don't know it all especially on this virus. But the entire schedule of the season has been thrown. If they deem it safe, then they do and I can't do anything but trust people who are experts. Oh and 100% support any player whos not comfortable sitting out at this point, some guys or their families are at risk.

Apologies this was a longer post, hoping I got my general feelings/concerns across and was hopefully clear. All I've said itt is safety is the concern.

https://www.jpost.com/international/pfizer-projects-october-release-date-for-coronavirus-vaccine-629980

you must be some scientist

I (as people honestly should) admit I don't know it all especially on this virus.

Also from your article:

"If things go well, and the stars are aligned, we will have enough evidence of safety and efficacy so that we can... have a vaccine around the end of October," said Bourla, according to AFP.

Pfizer aims to make 10-20 million doses of the coronavirus vaccine by the end of 2020 for emergency use should it pass tests

"Of course we need to see and wait to see how the vaccine's efficacy and safety is demonstrated, hopefully in the coming months," Nanette Cocero, global head of Pfizer Vaccines, said on a call organized by the Geneva-based industry group International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers (IFPMA).

It's almost like the article said the things I was saying. And again, if it happens this is good so I'm not sure why you're putting it in those words, or claiming I said I was a COVID expert. Being a scientist means realizing you don't know everything, something I'd recommend. It's defintion:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Dunning-Kruger is real.



Edit for clarification and: And from Dr. Fauci:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/01/anthony-fauci-on-covid-19-reopenings-vaccines-and-moving-at-warp-speed/

You’re asking me an opinion of things, but there’s still little data. The Pfizer one is very similar to Moderna’s. It’s an mRNA vaccine. I’m sure that Pfizer is going to get results that are as good as the Moderna vaccine. There’s no reason to believe one is going to be any different than the other.
...
I think that the president and the administration would be really very happy if we had a vaccine that we could deploy by the end of this year.

He seems to think it's possible. I would love to be wrong. And full honesty, the rest of the US has sort of gone to crap so I haven't been paying as much attention to this, but to me it's still a very aggressive timeline. So to sum up:

1. We don't know.

2. We have hope.

3. I don't know and do hope.

4. Personally I still doubt, but if it happens great and it would make things much better. But

5. This seems to only be for emergencies and would be irrelevant to the sports world. Fans won't be attending for a while most likely and these doses would be for other causes.

6. It may or may not be totally reliable.

So saying someone is a "bad scientist" while being unwilling to admit you don't know everything while said person is openly admitting they don't know everything is quite the take. To top it off the vaccine previously mentioned seems to have not had that many trials and didn't work, which you've failed to address. Oh and this entire talk is entirely irrelevant to this season.