Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry

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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#221 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:28 am

nikster wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
nikster wrote:Lowry is averaging 2.8 more assists per game this year. NBA.com shows Lowry creating 19 ppg off assists (top 8 in the league), Kemba with 12.4. Secondary assists and potential assists favour lowry as well

Why would Kembas slightly better scoring be more valuable to a Boston team that has 2 other 20+ ppg scorers and Gordon Hayward.


Do to the shallow bench scoring. The bench is full of defensive players and playmakers. The team needs pure scoring at all times on the floor. And sorry I meant for their career but yes Lowry averages 2 more assists this year.

Yea but the difference in scoring is like 2 used possessions per game. Don't see how Lowry couldn't take 2 more shots a game in the Celtics system

Career difference is small due to Lowry being a late bloomer and small role early in his career. Last 5 seasons, or per 36 for career have Lowry ahead about 2 assists.


We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#222 » by God Squad » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:59 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
Do to the shallow bench scoring. The bench is full of defensive players and playmakers. The team needs pure scoring at all times on the floor. And sorry I meant for their career but yes Lowry averages 2 more assists this year.

Yea but the difference in scoring is like 2 used possessions per game. Don't see how Lowry couldn't take 2 more shots a game in the Celtics system

Career difference is small due to Lowry being a late bloomer and small role early in his career. Last 5 seasons, or per 36 for career have Lowry ahead about 2 assists.


We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.

I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#223 » by Lockdown504090 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:27 pm

God Squad wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
nikster wrote:Yea but the difference in scoring is like 2 used possessions per game. Don't see how Lowry couldn't take 2 more shots a game in the Celtics system

Career difference is small due to Lowry being a late bloomer and small role early in his career. Last 5 seasons, or per 36 for career have Lowry ahead about 2 assists.


We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.

I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.

i actually disagree, Kemba hits a lot of threes in the PNR when teams go under and shoots from the line, lowry shoots from deeper ranges and is a better off ball shooter imo, and gets more respect when he stands 26 feet from the rim than kemba, but I think kemba may not guard multiple positions like lowry can, but he isnt a total slouch defensively, he rotates well, takes charges, and plays with solid energy.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#224 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:29 pm

God Squad wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
nikster wrote:Yea but the difference in scoring is like 2 used possessions per game. Don't see how Lowry couldn't take 2 more shots a game in the Celtics system

Career difference is small due to Lowry being a late bloomer and small role early in his career. Last 5 seasons, or per 36 for career have Lowry ahead about 2 assists.


We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.

I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.


I mean I guess the basketball HoF I can never say someone isn't going to it I guess.

Just kinda in my mind the level of player they both are.

For defense Lowry is better, and both of them are routinely in the top 10 in charges taken which is another odd way they are the same type of players. So many odd similarities between these two.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#225 » by Yeezus_ » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:33 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.

I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.


I mean I guess the basketball HoF I can never say someone isn't going to it I guess.

Just kinda in my mind the level of player they both are.

For defense Lowry is better, and both of them are routinely in the top 10 in charges taken which is another odd way they are the same type of players. So many odd similarities between these two.

Compare their advanced stats, Lowry is overall a better player at every aspect of basketball except (maybe) scoring. Even thats questionable considering Kemba is a high usg, average efficiency scorer.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#226 » by Braggins » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:14 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
Spoiler:
God Squad wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.

I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.

i actually disagree, Kemba hits a lot of threes in the PNR when teams go under and shoots from the line, lowry shoots from deeper ranges and is a better off ball shooter imo, and gets more respect when he stands 26 feet from the rim than kemba, but I think kemba may not guard multiple positions like lowry can, but he isnt a total slouch defensively, he rotates well, takes charges, and plays with solid energy.

This season

Kemba
Pull-up 3s: 36.4% - 6.2 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s: 41.1% - 2.6 attempts
20-24 feet: 42.3% - 1.6 attempts
24-29 feet: 37.8% - 7.4 attempts

Lowry

Pull-up 3s: 34.5% - 4.3 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s: 35.2% - 3.7 attempts
20-24 feet: 33.6% - 2.1 attempts
24-29 feet: 36.8% - 6.3 attempts
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#227 » by Lockdown504090 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:23 pm

Braggins wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
Spoiler:
God Squad wrote:I agree with all you said except for the fact you totally ignore defense in your summary. Also I think Lowry is going to the HoF. NBA champion, gold medalist and six time all star. Obviously not first ballot or even a guarantee. I just think its enough.

i actually disagree, Kemba hits a lot of threes in the PNR when teams go under and shoots from the line, lowry shoots from deeper ranges and is a better off ball shooter imo, and gets more respect when he stands 26 feet from the rim than kemba, but I think kemba may not guard multiple positions like lowry can, but he isnt a total slouch defensively, he rotates well, takes charges, and plays with solid energy.

This season

Kemba
Pull-up 3s = 36.4% / 6.2 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 41.1% / 2.6 attempts
20-24 feet = 42.3% / 1.6 attempts
24-29 feet = 37.8% / 7.4 attempts

Lowry

Pull-up 3s = 34.5% / 4.3 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 35.2% / 3.7 attempts
20-24 feet = 33.6% / 2.1 attempts
24-29 feet = 36.8% / 6.3 attempts

yeah lowry having a down year.I just think kyle is betterr suited to the off ball role that walker. Do you have those numbers for the last season, when they were in a more similar role? I would love to see that. You can just link it if you dont want to copy paste it. I am very curious to see how kemba does with 3 months to rehab that bum knee hes been dealing with, he seemed to have a pfps issue, which is something that is very solvable with time.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#228 » by Duffman100 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:25 pm

This is funny for me also, as these are probably two of my favourite players in the league. Both in my top 5.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#229 » by Braggins » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:42 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
Braggins wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
Spoiler:

i actually disagree, Kemba hits a lot of threes in the PNR when teams go under and shoots from the line, lowry shoots from deeper ranges and is a better off ball shooter imo, and gets more respect when he stands 26 feet from the rim than kemba, but I think kemba may not guard multiple positions like lowry can, but he isnt a total slouch defensively, he rotates well, takes charges, and plays with solid energy.

This season

Kemba
Pull-up 3s = 36.4% / 6.2 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 41.1% / 2.6 attempts
20-24 feet = 42.3% / 1.6 attempts
24-29 feet = 37.8% / 7.4 attempts

Lowry

Pull-up 3s = 34.5% / 4.3 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 35.2% / 3.7 attempts
20-24 feet = 33.6% / 2.1 attempts
24-29 feet = 36.8% / 6.3 attempts

yeah lowry having a down year.I just think kyle is betterr suited to the off ball role that walker. Do you have those numbers for the last season, when they were in a more similar role? I would love to see that. You can just link it if you dont want to copy paste it. I am very curious to see how kemba does with 3 months to rehab that bum knee hes been dealing with, he seemed to have a pfps issue, which is something that is very solvable with time.

Their roles were even more different last season. Kemba was a 1st option on a trash team and Lowry was a 3rd option on a championship team. They are both 2nd options on fairly similar quality teams this seasons.

Lowry's 3-point percentage last season was pretty much the same as this years (slightly lower). Kemba's last season was a good 2% lower than any of his past five seasons and was still slightly higher than Lowrys (same as Lowry's this season).

Its not really a fair comparison for Kemba considering he spent the previous four years playing on a Charlotte dumpster fire team where his best offensive teammates were Jeremy Lamb and Nic Batum, whereas Lowry always at least had Derozen and way better overall teams and last season had Kawhi + Siakam, which has a significant impact on the quality of C&S looks each player was getting, but here is the C&S% - attempts for the last five years (including this season).

Kemba / Lowry
19/20: 41.1% - 2.6 / 35.2% - 3.7
18.19: 34.8% - 2.8 / 38.3% - 4.3
17/18: 40.3% - 2.8 / 41.3 - 4.1
16/17: 46.4% - 2.8 / 40.9% - 3.2
15/16: 44.3% - 2.7 / 45.3% - 3.6
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#230 » by Lockdown504090 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:11 pm

Braggins wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
Braggins wrote:This season

Kemba
Pull-up 3s = 36.4% / 6.2 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 41.1% / 2.6 attempts
20-24 feet = 42.3% / 1.6 attempts
24-29 feet = 37.8% / 7.4 attempts

Lowry

Pull-up 3s = 34.5% / 4.3 attempts
Catch & Shoot 3s = 35.2% / 3.7 attempts
20-24 feet = 33.6% / 2.1 attempts
24-29 feet = 36.8% / 6.3 attempts

yeah lowry having a down year.I just think kyle is betterr suited to the off ball role that walker. Do you have those numbers for the last season, when they were in a more similar role? I would love to see that. You can just link it if you dont want to copy paste it. I am very curious to see how kemba does with 3 months to rehab that bum knee hes been dealing with, he seemed to have a pfps issue, which is something that is very solvable with time.

Their roles were even more different last season. Kemba was a 1st option on a trash team and Lowry was a 3rd option on a championship team. They are both 2nd options on fairly similar quality teams this seasons.

Lowry's 3-point percentage last season was pretty much the same as this years (slightly lower). Kemba's last season was a good 2% lower than any of his past five seasons and was still slightly higher than Lowrys (same as Lowry's this season).

Its not really a fair comparison for Kemba considering he spent the previous four years playing on a Charlotte dumpster fire team where his best offensive teammates were Jeremy Lamb and Nic Batum, whereas Lowry always at least had Derozen and way better overall teams and last season had Kawhi + Siakam, which has a significant impact on the quality of C&S looks each player was getting, but here is the C&S% - attempts for the last five years (including this season).

Kemba / Lowry
19/20: 41.1% - 2.6 / 35.2% - 3.7
18.19: 34.8% - 2.8 / 38.3% - 4.3
17/18: 40.3% - 2.8 / 41.3 - 4.1
16/17: 46.4% - 2.8 / 40.9% - 3.2
15/16: 44.3% - 2.7 / 45.3% - 3.6

interesting. I wanted to look at lowry last year to kemba this year. its not as strong as the numbers would suggest, but kemba i think is looking for more looks on the line off the ball and teams give him a little more space because hes so fast, wheras lowry kinda is more known for not having much of a drive game and is easier to limit. Just speaking on how I see them being defended in key games. to the original point, betweeen the two, its really about what you need. I would agree lowry is more useful in winning a title, but kemba would probably be your guy in a lot of other situations.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#231 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:46 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
Braggins wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:yeah lowry having a down year.I just think kyle is betterr suited to the off ball role that walker. Do you have those numbers for the last season, when they were in a more similar role? I would love to see that. You can just link it if you dont want to copy paste it. I am very curious to see how kemba does with 3 months to rehab that bum knee hes been dealing with, he seemed to have a pfps issue, which is something that is very solvable with time.

Their roles were even more different last season. Kemba was a 1st option on a trash team and Lowry was a 3rd option on a championship team. They are both 2nd options on fairly similar quality teams this seasons.

Lowry's 3-point percentage last season was pretty much the same as this years (slightly lower). Kemba's last season was a good 2% lower than any of his past five seasons and was still slightly higher than Lowrys (same as Lowry's this season).

Its not really a fair comparison for Kemba considering he spent the previous four years playing on a Charlotte dumpster fire team where his best offensive teammates were Jeremy Lamb and Nic Batum, whereas Lowry always at least had Derozen and way better overall teams and last season had Kawhi + Siakam, which has a significant impact on the quality of C&S looks each player was getting, but here is the C&S% - attempts for the last five years (including this season).

Kemba / Lowry
19/20: 41.1% - 2.6 / 35.2% - 3.7
18.19: 34.8% - 2.8 / 38.3% - 4.3
17/18: 40.3% - 2.8 / 41.3 - 4.1
16/17: 46.4% - 2.8 / 40.9% - 3.2
15/16: 44.3% - 2.7 / 45.3% - 3.6

interesting. I wanted to look at lowry last year to kemba this year. its not as strong as the numbers would suggest, but kemba i think is looking for more looks on the line off the ball and teams give him a little more space because hes so fast, wheras lowry kinda is more known for not having much of a drive game and is easier to limit. Just speaking on how I see them being defended in key games. to the original point, betweeen the two, its really about what you need. I would agree lowry is more useful in winning a title, but kemba would probably be your guy in a lot of other situations.


I think more useful in winning a title is also debatable. Neither guy is going to be the reason you're winning a ring regardless.

But people need someone to step up that isn't the MVP and make the shots in tough ISO situations just as much as they need good defense.

These are just in the end two different versions of vanilla ice cream. Neither are important enough talent wise to dramatically matter and both just have slight differences.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#232 » by nikster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:57 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
Braggins wrote:Their roles were even more different last season. Kemba was a 1st option on a trash team and Lowry was a 3rd option on a championship team. They are both 2nd options on fairly similar quality teams this seasons.

Lowry's 3-point percentage last season was pretty much the same as this years (slightly lower). Kemba's last season was a good 2% lower than any of his past five seasons and was still slightly higher than Lowrys (same as Lowry's this season).

Its not really a fair comparison for Kemba considering he spent the previous four years playing on a Charlotte dumpster fire team where his best offensive teammates were Jeremy Lamb and Nic Batum, whereas Lowry always at least had Derozen and way better overall teams and last season had Kawhi + Siakam, which has a significant impact on the quality of C&S looks each player was getting, but here is the C&S% - attempts for the last five years (including this season).

Kemba / Lowry
19/20: 41.1% - 2.6 / 35.2% - 3.7
18.19: 34.8% - 2.8 / 38.3% - 4.3
17/18: 40.3% - 2.8 / 41.3 - 4.1
16/17: 46.4% - 2.8 / 40.9% - 3.2
15/16: 44.3% - 2.7 / 45.3% - 3.6

interesting. I wanted to look at lowry last year to kemba this year. its not as strong as the numbers would suggest, but kemba i think is looking for more looks on the line off the ball and teams give him a little more space because hes so fast, wheras lowry kinda is more known for not having much of a drive game and is easier to limit. Just speaking on how I see them being defended in key games. to the original point, betweeen the two, its really about what you need. I would agree lowry is more useful in winning a title, but kemba would probably be your guy in a lot of other situations.


I think more useful in winning a title is also debatable. Neither guy is going to be the reason you're winning a ring regardless.

But people need someone to step up that isn't the MVP and make the shots in tough ISO situations just as much as they need good defense.

These are just in the end two different versions of vanilla ice cream. Neither are important enough talent wise to dramatically matter and both just have slight differences.

Lowry was the 2nd best player in a championship team. Kemba might have that potential in the right situation. Don't see how that's not important enough to dramatically matter, unless you put weight on nothing but the #1 scoring option
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#233 » by Roco14 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:09 pm

nikster wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:interesting. I wanted to look at lowry last year to kemba this year. its not as strong as the numbers would suggest, but kemba i think is looking for more looks on the line off the ball and teams give him a little more space because hes so fast, wheras lowry kinda is more known for not having much of a drive game and is easier to limit. Just speaking on how I see them being defended in key games. to the original point, betweeen the two, its really about what you need. I would agree lowry is more useful in winning a title, but kemba would probably be your guy in a lot of other situations.


I think more useful in winning a title is also debatable. Neither guy is going to be the reason you're winning a ring regardless.

But people need someone to step up that isn't the MVP and make the shots in tough ISO situations just as much as they need good defense.

These are just in the end two different versions of vanilla ice cream. Neither are important enough talent wise to dramatically matter and both just have slight differences.

Lowry was the 2nd best player in a championship team. Kemba might have that potential in the right situation. Don't see how that's not important enough to dramatically matter, unless you put weight on nothing but the #1 scoring option


He's also regarded as having one of the highest BBIQ in the league - obviously there's no way of actually measuring that, but in my opinion, having a high BBIQ and tremendous leadership is the difference maker between the two since the talent discrepancy isn't seemingly very large (kemba better O, Lowry better D). That's why people are saying he's more "userful in winning a title".
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#234 » by JustLucky » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:35 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
Do to the shallow bench scoring. The bench is full of defensive players and playmakers. The team needs pure scoring at all times on the floor. And sorry I meant for their career but yes Lowry averages 2 more assists this year.

Yea but the difference in scoring is like 2 used possessions per game. Don't see how Lowry couldn't take 2 more shots a game in the Celtics system

Career difference is small due to Lowry being a late bloomer and small role early in his career. Last 5 seasons, or per 36 for career have Lowry ahead about 2 assists.


We often have needed a goto scorer in Kemba.

He also provides even better spacing off the ball than Lowry does.

Lowry 8.3 3PA on 35.4% shooting

Kemba 8.8 3PA on 37.7% shooting

These are very similar players impact wise. It's also Kemba's first year in a new system going from the goto scorer getting all the defensive attention to someone who's first priority is to get open looks for Brown and Tatum so they can get their shots off. He'll probably be even better next year after getting some chemistry with these players and a well half season under his belt this year in that environment.

But again these are guys that have been in the league a long time, both are playing really well in their roles for their teams.

Career wise you have these numbers

Lowry: 14.7 ppg 6.2 aspg 42% fg 36.5% from 3
Kemba: 20 ppg 5.5 asgp 42% fg 36% from 3

Both were very late bloomers not really breaking out till about their 5th year in the league.

Neither are going to be hall of famers and both are nice little near all-star level players.


kyle lowry is a hof lock at this point.... kemba might even make it but I doubt it
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#235 » by Braggins » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:58 am

Lockdown504090 wrote:
Braggins wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:yeah lowry having a down year.I just think kyle is betterr suited to the off ball role that walker. Do you have those numbers for the last season, when they were in a more similar role? I would love to see that. You can just link it if you dont want to copy paste it. I am very curious to see how kemba does with 3 months to rehab that bum knee hes been dealing with, he seemed to have a pfps issue, which is something that is very solvable with time.

Their roles were even more different last season. Kemba was a 1st option on a trash team and Lowry was a 3rd option on a championship team. They are both 2nd options on fairly similar quality teams this seasons.

Lowry's 3-point percentage last season was pretty much the same as this years (slightly lower). Kemba's last season was a good 2% lower than any of his past five seasons and was still slightly higher than Lowrys (same as Lowry's this season).

Its not really a fair comparison for Kemba considering he spent the previous four years playing on a Charlotte dumpster fire team where his best offensive teammates were Jeremy Lamb and Nic Batum, whereas Lowry always at least had Derozen and way better overall teams and last season had Kawhi + Siakam, which has a significant impact on the quality of C&S looks each player was getting, but here is the C&S% - attempts for the last five years (including this season).

Kemba / Lowry
19/20: 41.1% - 2.6 / 35.2% - 3.7
18.19: 34.8% - 2.8 / 38.3% - 4.3
17/18: 40.3% - 2.8 / 41.3 - 4.1
16/17: 46.4% - 2.8 / 40.9% - 3.2
15/16: 44.3% - 2.7 / 45.3% - 3.6

interesting. I wanted to look at lowry last year to kemba this year. its not as strong as the numbers would suggest, but kemba i think is looking for more looks on the line off the ball and teams give him a little more space because hes so fast, wheras lowry kinda is more known for not having much of a drive game and is easier to limit. Just speaking on how I see them being defended in key games. to the original point, betweeen the two, its really about what you need. I would agree lowry is more useful in winning a title, but kemba would probably be your guy in a lot of other situations.

I mean, as far as their overall usefullness, I personally think they are pretty similar and wouldn't fault anyone for having Lowry as the better player. Lowry's advanced stats this year are great (probably were last year too) and hes always been underrated (Kemba has too tbh and generally has very good advanced stats). I just don't think there is any doubt that Kemba is the better 3-point shooter. Lowry is clearly the better defender, though, and his assist numbers are a bit better, so Kemba's shooting doesn't necessarily make him the better player.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#236 » by Braggins » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:06 am

Roco14 wrote:
nikster wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:
I think more useful in winning a title is also debatable. Neither guy is going to be the reason you're winning a ring regardless.

But people need someone to step up that isn't the MVP and make the shots in tough ISO situations just as much as they need good defense.

These are just in the end two different versions of vanilla ice cream. Neither are important enough talent wise to dramatically matter and both just have slight differences.

Lowry was the 2nd best player in a championship team. Kemba might have that potential in the right situation. Don't see how that's not important enough to dramatically matter, unless you put weight on nothing but the #1 scoring option


He's also regarded as having one of the highest BBIQ in the league - obviously there's no way of actually measuring that, but in my opinion, having a high BBIQ and tremendous leadership is the difference maker between the two since the talent discrepancy isn't seemingly very large (kemba better O, Lowry better D). That's why people are saying he's more "userful in winning a title".

Kemba is a good leader with a high BBIQ as well. Kemba has never been in a situation in the NBA for his leadership to really pay off in a way that would really stand out until this year. Hes not the type of superstar talent that has the ability to will bad teams to deep playoff runs and there was no amount of leadership that was going to save the sorry Charlotte squads he was stuck on for his entire career. His leadership has already made a difference in Boston, though. I'm not even saying he is better than Lowry in either regard, but I just think they are both good leaders who play a high IQ game and with tremendous heart.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#237 » by Courtside » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:31 am

How does this thread not have a poll??
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#238 » by CoP » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:46 am

Can't go wrong with either, I'd be thrilled to have either on my team. I had always said in previous seasons that Kemba was one of my favorite non-Celtics.

Lowry is a bit more of a flopper and complainer, I guess I just like Kemba's personality a bit more. That's not really a basketball reason per se but whatever. Both are high-effort hustlers and a lot of fun to watch for the most part.
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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#239 » by tradejosehesux » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:45 am

Big Perk is riding with KLow

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Re: Kemba Walker or Kyle Lowry 

Post#240 » by jaybiddyforeal » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:48 am

It is Kyle Lowry and it's not even close. Literally EVERY single thing you can possibly think of points to Lowry...



Over the course of their careers, per 100 possessions, look at who leads who:

Lowry wins:
FG%, 2PT %, 3PT %, OREB, DREB, TREB, AST, STL, ORtg, DRtg, TS%, FTr%, ORB%, DREB%, TREB%, AST%, STL%, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, DBPM, BPM, VORP

Kemba wins:
PTS, FT%., BLK, TO, BLK%, TO%,



Looking even further into the few stats where Kemba beats Lowry:

- The NBA didn't start regularly crediting blocks below the waist until about 2012. I know because it would drive me nuts that those plays wouldn't even be recorded in the play by play. It was like they never happened. That's about 7 years of possession data that inherently puts Lowry at a disadvantage for blocks per possession and BLK % and he STILL almost beat Kemba in both those categories (difference of less than .1 and .3 respectively).

- Kemba outscores Lowry by about 6 points 100 possession despite have a usage percentage almost 6 points higher then Lowry. Despite a usage rate almost 6 percentage points (or almost 30%) higher then Lowry, the only offensive category Kemba is better at total points scored which is obvious for a player using that many more possessions.

- Kemba turns the balls over less and hits free throws at a marginally higher % then Lowry which are both a credit to Kemba. However, Kyle gets to the line at a significantly higher rate and posts a fairly higher AST/TO ratio showing again he is the overall better player when all things are factored in.

So Kemba Walker's best skill is his offense and Lowry is a better offensive player then him is basically every single offensive category you can possible imagine...




Moving on to defense....

Kyle Lowry might be the best charge taker and best overall defender in NBA history for someone 6 feet or under. This year, Lowry guards opposing power forwards as often as he guards opposing point guards (about 18% of the time each). Think about that for a second... a severely undersized point guard spends as much time guarding power forwards as he does opposing point guards. Oh yeah and he is holding opponents to 43% from the field (league average is 46%) when he is the primary defender despite guarding players taller than him on over 99% of his defensive possessions.

Lest you forget he stopped a Joel Embiid post up touch less than 10 feet from the basket on the final possession on their game 7 victory over Philly. He also should have sealed the NBA Finals game 6 with a charge drawn on DeMarcus Cousins with about 1:30 left but the refs incorrectly called a blocking foul when it was a blatant charge. Centers legit cannot score on one of the 10 smallest players in the NBA with any sort of efficiency despite being a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier.

Kemba is a marginal defender whose best attribute is his ability to draw charges. Just like Kemba's perceived offensive greatness, Kemba's best defensive feature is SO inferior to Lowry doing the same thing. And Lowry is again significantly better then Kemba in every facet of defense both traditionally and on advanced hustle stats. Lowry also dominates the eye test as a superior team defender because he is never in a mismatch and is A+ help defender from the weak side because of his ability to take charges but also to recover to the perimeter to closeout on shooters and drive them off the 3 point line.




Moving on to the playoffs....

I can't believe I even have to type this out but again, look at every single stat, every one... Kyle > Walker outside of points scored but Kyle is head and shoulders more efficient. Plus Kyle did that whole win a championship as the 2nd best player on the team thing. And go watch game 6 of the NBA Finals in case you forgot what happened there...

Kyle Lowry led the Raptors to two conference semis, game 6 of the conference finals, and an NBA championship in the past 4 years (ok, Ill concede, Kawhi did the "leading" for the Larry OB run). In those four years, the only player in the NBA that was able to defeat Kyle was LeBron James.

Speaking of LeBron James, he is second on the list of clutch performers in the NBA playoffs in the past five years with 11 made buckets in the final 2 minutes of a one possession game. Who is 1st you might ask? That would be Kyle Lowry with 14. And if that isn't enough for you, go look at the shooting percentages for those situations. Lowry is shooting over 65% in those situations. C-L-U-T-C-H

Kemba walker has played in 11 total playoff games.




Moving on to team success...

If you haven't watch the NBA for the past 7 years, Kyle Lowry has been the best player on his team since 2013. He has led the Raptors to 48, 49, 56, 51, 59, 58, and 59 (projected before shutdown) wins seasons and 7 straight Atlantic division titles (barring a collapse in Orlando next month). The only year he wasn't the best player on the team was in 2018-19 and he still led the team to a BETTER record when Kawhi Leonard did not play.

They have the 3rd most wins in the NBA playoffs since 2013 (Cavaliers, Warriors), and 2nd most since 2015 (Warriors).

Again, Kemba Walker has played in 11 career playoff games. And it has only taken a .500 record to make it to the playoffs in the east over the span of his career.





Moving on to intangibles....

Lowry is always in the top three for the smartest player in the NBA voting with Chris Paul and LeBron James. Legendary coach Jay Wright called Lowry the smartest player hes ever coached by far, and 2x NBA executive of the year and best GM in the NBA Masai Ujiri has called Lowry the heart and soul, lead by example, absolute unquestioned leader of the "We The North" era.

I don't hear anybody saying things like that about Kemba Walker...




If you want to argue all this and that about how Kemba played on bad teams for the first 6 years of his career thats all fine and dandy. Because then I get to argue that Kyle Lowry may have played with a worse supporting cast for the first six years of his career. Seriously, go look at the players Lowry shared the floor with in Memphis. Houston wasn't anywhere close to as bad as Kemba's Hornets teams but the bench unit that Lowry rolled with in Memphis might have been the sorriest group of NBA players on Earth (apologies to darko, tarance kinsey, hakim warrick, brian cardinal, stromile swift, casey jacobsen, juan carlos navarro, kwame brown, javaris crittenton, and the rest of those guys that were so bad I cant even remember their existence).


When it is all said and done Lowry is likely to be a 7-8 time all-star (despite getting absolutely hosed in 13-14 for Joe Johnson who was averaging 14/3/3), 2 time all-nba, 2nd best player on an NBA champion, statistically one of the most clutch players in playoff history, posted a near triple double in the closeout game of the NBA Finals against one of the best dynasties in the history of the game, an Olympic gold medalist (possibly twice), likely top 15 in career three pointers made, top 15 in career assists, top 30-40 in career steals, the best player in the history of his franchise, the best player ever listed at 6'0" or under (for the millionth time Chris Paul is better, he is also 6'1"), the GOAT charger taker, and who knows what else. He did all this despite not being a starter for the first 7 years of his career and playing in the greatest era for guards in the history of the NBA.

If anyone wants to make a fool of themselves by trying to make a case for Kemba Walker, you go right ahead.

KLOE

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