If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through.

Moderators: KingDavid, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, infinite11285, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus, Goudelock, Prez, ken6199, bwgood77, Dirk, Domejandro

SmartWentCrazy
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 15,508
And1: 24,452
Joined: Dec 29, 2014

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#21 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:53 pm

They probably would've won one after Dwight left via FA. Dwight wouldve driven CP3 and Kobe crazy and theres no way that wouldve worked out.

A CP/Kobe duo wouldve definitely been good enough to compete for multiple titles. Health wouldve been their biggest obstacle.
User avatar
jamaalstar21
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 2,479
And1: 4,198
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#22 » by jamaalstar21 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:31 pm

Couple of thoughts:
- It would have been similar to Harden/CP3. Chris Paul proved there that he is willing to play a less ball-dominant role. I don't think Kobe or Harden have the same ability to relinquish control. Kobe was WAY better than Harden off-ball though so there is possibly a bigger role for CP3? I dunno, Kobe did not seem to want to relinquish any possession time to Steve Nash in their brief, injured time together, but that's probably not enough evidence.
- Phil Jackson doesn't have much or a track record with ball dominant point guards, so it is hard to picture Chris Paul's role in the triangle.
- They'd need frontcourt pieces. Low usage frontcourt pieces who can defend and offer value as finishers and/or shooters. Bynum would have been the exact wrong piece here. We already know how the Dwight trade goes, and I can't picture any scenario where injured Dwight and Kobe get along enough to keep Kobe in town. It's not like Paul is a peacemaker. It probably just ends up being 2 guys yelling at Kobe.
- Kobe was 33 that season. He was in mini decline. This trade may or may not affect the Achilles injury, but if you think a 35 year Kobe is willingly handing the reigns over to anyone, even a better player, you're ignoring who Kobe Bryant was. Sometimes people forget age and career trajectory when making these hopeful what-ifs. It's kind of like the "what if Kobe and Shaq had worked it out how many championships could they have won?", but then you look at Shaq's age, health, career trajectory and realize the answer is probably closer to 0 or 1 than 3 or 4 more. Kobe and Paul would have had a 2-year window if they build the roster quickly. After that it becomes more about how they build around Paul going forward.
benson13
Senior
Posts: 614
And1: 527
Joined: Feb 01, 2017
     

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#23 » by benson13 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:33 pm

They would have lost all their depth, and the salary commitments to Bryant, Paul, and Bynum were almost all of the salary cap. They wouldn't have had a lot of options for signing guys, and they would have competed with the Heat for ring chasers.

I think they would have contended, but just go through the champions in the seasons that would have followed the trade.

2012. Heat
2013. Heat
2014. Spurs
2015. Warriors

Which of those teams would the Lakers have beaten?

The one dynamic that's hard to account for is Kobe's abilities away from the ball and in the post being paired with Paul's passing. Chris Paul had the skills to make Bryant's life easier on offense, and Bryant had the skills to take advantage of that.
ILOVEIT
RealGM
Posts: 10,226
And1: 1,695
Joined: May 28, 2004

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#24 » by ILOVEIT » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:46 pm

THey win it all.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
Up-And-Coming
Rookie
Posts: 1,127
And1: 653
Joined: Jul 21, 2015
         

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#25 » by Up-And-Coming » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:09 pm

durka wrote:
yitur wrote:
durka wrote:Dwight had issue enough dealing with how demanding Kobe was. CP is cut from the same cloth. Playing with 2 guys like that would probably have made the issues even worse.


Probably, but him not handling it was probably linked with him being not %100 percent to play but still did. He was much better after the All-Star break and he looked more like his Magic self. One of the main theme of team sports is that winning cures everything. If that team didn't struggle like they did, Howard-Kobe relationship would've gone much different. Or if Howard was the third option.

Howard was at the peak of his popularity at that point, was the consensus best C in the league and had an ego. He was in a contract year and definitely wouldnt have been happy being the 3rd option on that team. One of the issues he had in his numerous stops after LA was that he wanted to get fed in post up situations instead of being a PnR decoy. In an ideal world he would play that role on that team, but given the variables and how things went with Kobe alone I just dont think would have been helped by adding another abrasive, ball dominant player.

I do think this move wouldve helped elongate Kobes career though. With all of Nashs and Howard's injuries that year he had to carry a heavy load, which led to his achilles injury. Even if that first year didnt work with Dwight, they would have been able to find a 3rd guy who fit better with those 2 guys. Even if they didnt add a star, they could have added depth peices and Dantoni could have ran a similar offense to his CP-Harden teams and it would probably have resulted in some serious success.


Ya. Even on the Lakers the first time around it was clear he did not want to PnR very often w/ Nash. He also didn’t have the best of hands and would fumble PnR passes. He would just demand to post up. I don’t know the fit for Dwight but CP3 w/ Kobe would have been great to see.
User avatar
chefy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,567
And1: 408
Joined: Aug 14, 2006

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#26 » by chefy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:11 pm

most importantly, the achilles injury probably would never happened IMO.
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,970
And1: 2,193
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#27 » by red96 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm

JB2 wrote:
illuminati666 wrote:I genuinely believe it would've been a dissapointing team that first season. Losing Odom and Gasol is huge, the team would've really fallen off after those two. Bynum was decent but not the third star you need, and if they couldn't make that Dwight trade, he would've been done in a couple seasons. Maybe if they were able to add a couple pieces the could've been contenders the following year but that first year... late playoff team out in first round.


The Dwight trade still would have happened. Assuming guys like Artest, Jamison, Blake, and Barnes were all still Lakers (one way or another)

Dwight
Jamison
Artest, Barnes
Kobe
CP3, Blake

That team was winning at least 1 ring, Dwight probably never leaves as CP and him dominate in the PnR. Kobe gets to save energy and his body.

You honestly believe he would've been fine as the 3rd option, in a contract year, while playing with the personalities of Kobe AND Paul? Running P&R's? Were you watching at all back then?

Howard wanted to be showased as "the man", wanted his touches, and wanted max $.
He didnt want to be a Laker, didn't get along with Kobe, wouldn't have got along with Paul, and he hated running P&R's, but I guess if you post in a fantasy thread you might as well go all out.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
Liam_Gallagher
Senior
Posts: 544
And1: 707
Joined: Nov 05, 2019

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#28 » by Liam_Gallagher » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:49 pm

So we’re just gonna pretend they also weren’t lined up to get Dwight to pair with cp3 and Kobe?
themoneyteam2
Pro Prospect
Posts: 967
And1: 1,229
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
     

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#29 » by themoneyteam2 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:51 pm

I was waiting for this thread. Hadn’t seen it in 3 months which is unusually long
User avatar
levon
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,875
And1: 9,420
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#30 » by levon » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:00 pm

All I know is if the Lakers put together a team with Kobe, CP3, Pau, and Dwight, the league would tear the CBA to shreds. The tantrums thrown would be awesome.
User avatar
GregOden
Rookie
Posts: 1,111
And1: 995
Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#31 » by GregOden » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 pm

levon wrote:All I know is if the Lakers put together a team with Kobe, CP3, Pau, and Dwight, the league would tear the CBA to shreds. The tantrums thrown would be awesome.


lol and yet I can't see that team performing well at all. CP3 is not Lebron, Kobe already had a ton of miles on him and was breaking down and Dwight would implode on the Lakers being forced to run P&Rs. It would be like the 2011 Miami Heat for one season of hope before blowing up. Basically a repeat of 2004 IMO.
User avatar
JB2
Analyst
Posts: 3,445
And1: 3,239
Joined: Mar 10, 2009

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#32 » by JB2 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:17 pm

red96 wrote:
JB2 wrote:
illuminati666 wrote:I genuinely believe it would've been a dissapointing team that first season. Losing Odom and Gasol is huge, the team would've really fallen off after those two. Bynum was decent but not the third star you need, and if they couldn't make that Dwight trade, he would've been done in a couple seasons. Maybe if they were able to add a couple pieces the could've been contenders the following year but that first year... late playoff team out in first round.


The Dwight trade still would have happened. Assuming guys like Artest, Jamison, Blake, and Barnes were all still Lakers (one way or another)

Dwight
Jamison
Artest, Barnes
Kobe
CP3, Blake

That team was winning at least 1 ring, Dwight probably never leaves as CP and him dominate in the PnR. Kobe gets to save energy and his body.

You honestly believe he would've been fine as the 3rd option, in a contract year, while playing with the personalities of Kobe AND Paul? Running P&R's? Were you watching at all back then?

Howard wanted to be showased as "the man", wanted his touches, and wanted max $.
He didnt want to be a Laker, didn't get along with Kobe, wouldn't have got along with Paul, and he hated running P&R's, but I guess if you post in a fantasy thread you might as well go all out.


Easy tiger. You seem extra feisty on this lord's day.

He was treated like a 4th option. Kobe, Pau, and Nash were all given more green light than him. So on some level, making him a 3rd guy would have been an improvement from what he actually was. Would he have liked it? I don't know. But the bigger problem was that the ball went through Kobe and Kobe saw Dwight as Tyson Chandler and saw Pau as his sidekick. If Pau is gone the floor is more spread, ball is in CP3's hands and all of a sudden Dwight is getting easy touches. If MDA is still the hire, you can bet he is running PnR all day with those 2 when Kobe is not in the game.. or using it while he is in the game along with some action to get Kobe open looks off of it.

I don't think most guys in the NBA could handle a locker room with Kobe and CP3 so maybe Dwight does leave or maybe he doesn't. I say he probably doesn't. You say he does. I say they win a ring. You might disagree. But Dwight had Lakers on his list of teams he wanted to be on. He talked about wanting to play with Kobe after the Olympics. So you might also want to check your facts about him never wanting to be a Laker.

Either way, it's a fantasy argument based on a scenario that never materialized. You can make assumptions and so can I.
DS17
Pro Prospect
Posts: 878
And1: 594
Joined: Mar 08, 2015
 

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#33 » by DS17 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:21 pm

So sad it didn’t go through :(.
User avatar
levon
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,875
And1: 9,420
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#34 » by levon » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pm

GregOden wrote:
levon wrote:All I know is if the Lakers put together a team with Kobe, CP3, Pau, and Dwight, the league would tear the CBA to shreds. The tantrums thrown would be awesome.


lol and yet I can't see that team performing well at all. CP3 is not Lebron, Kobe already had a ton of miles on him and was breaking down and Dwight would implode on the Lakers being forced to run P&Rs. It would be like the 2011 Miami Heat for one season of hope before blowing up. Basically a repeat of 2004 IMO.

I think that may be true in hindsight. But you just have to look at the hissy fit the owners threw when that trade was about to go through. Getting Dwight, who was considered the best big in the game on top of that would be hilarious. Kobe was considered a top 5 player, CP3 a top 5 player. Although, they probably wouldn't be able to keep Gasol.
JN61
Veteran
Posts: 2,726
And1: 2,044
Joined: Jan 07, 2018
 

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#35 » by JN61 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:48 pm

I do believe they win at least one together. Maybe not in 2011/12 but in coming years with all the free agents joining Lakers.
User avatar
ZemGOAT
Veteran
Posts: 2,872
And1: 5,432
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
Location: FL
Contact:
 

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#36 » by ZemGOAT » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:33 pm

The league would look 100% different
IgorK
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,383
And1: 2,351
Joined: Mar 06, 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:
     

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#37 » by IgorK » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:59 pm

Rejected trade:

Hornets get: Goran Dragic, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, and New York's 2012 1st-round pick (which became Royce White)
Lakers get: Chris Paul
Rockets get: Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom

CP3's salary: 15M
Pau's & Lamar's combined salary: 26

Lakers create 11M extra in their cap space and still keep Bynum & Metta.

I don't care who you use as your fifth man, but a team starting prime CP3, supernova Kobe, supernova MWP, and Bynum (most people forget just how huge and dominant this kid was in his Lakers days) is winning it all.

This is why Stern vetoed the trade "for basketball reasons".
"You want me to own a team and deal with these rich, spoiled stubborn athletes, and try to get them to perform? No thank you." - Kobe

AMG
karkinos
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,688
And1: 1,706
Joined: Nov 06, 2009

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#38 » by karkinos » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:14 am

the fact that the league actually had to block the deal just tells you how OP that duo is.
also wonder if bynum would have stayed healthy. he was breaking out that same year 18ppg.
User avatar
OdomFan
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,563
And1: 4,115
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
Location: Washington DC
       

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#39 » by OdomFan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:47 am

Honestly wish the Dwight deal got rejected instead. CP3 and Kobe would have been crazy good together.
Image
JimmyFromNz
Sophomore
Posts: 172
And1: 115
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
 

Re: If the Chris Paul to the Lakers deal had went through. 

Post#40 » by JimmyFromNz » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:47 am

benson13 wrote:They would have lost all their depth, and the salary commitments to Bryant, Paul, and Bynum were almost all of the salary cap. They wouldn't have had a lot of options for signing guys, and they would have competed with the Heat for ring chasers.

I think they would have contended, but just go through the champions in the seasons that would have followed the trade.

2012. Heat
2013. Heat
2014. Spurs
2015. Warriors

Which of those teams would the Lakers have beaten?

The one dynamic that's hard to account for is Kobe's abilities away from the ball and in the post being paired with Paul's passing. Chris Paul had the skills to make Bryant's life easier on offense, and Bryant had the skills to take advantage of that.


I think this is the most reasonable post. They would have contended against some very good teams.

Saying they would have won for sure is nonsense, given the league wide variables and clearly short memory of some i.e. projecting a best case scenario when we in fact saw a susbequent worst case scenario unfold with a similarly talented team in their 2012/13 season.

Return to The General Board