Are the Bucks fool's gold?

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Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#1 » by Jabroni Lames » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:30 pm

Interesting analysis by BB Breakdown, seems to indicate there are some potentially fatal flaws in Bud's system that could be exploited in the playoffs by savvy opposition coaches. He doesn't pick the Bucks to come out of the East... he picks the Raptors.

That's always been the knock on Coach Bud: he will live or die by his rigid system and he doesn't make many adjustments in the playoffs.

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#2 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:32 pm

my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#3 » by Duffman100 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:39 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#4 » by jamaalstar21 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:47 pm

The Bucks have been questioned all season because they got upset in last years playoffs after their total domination of the regular season. Bud can't adjust blah blah, Giannis will get loaded up on blah blah. Atleast Coach Nick here brings up a less talked about point. It's hard not for me to trust this #1 defense, but I did think during the regular season that the Clips, Raps, Celts had more versatile defenses, where the Bucks and Lakers placed such a priority on rim protection, that their defense may have more strategic holes.

The onus is on the Bucks to shut people up with a convincing win over the East (Toronto would be especially satisfying for them). We'll all think about last season until the Bucks give us something new to think about it. I believe they can do that. Bud would be insane if he wasn't ready for the defense that beat them last year. He'll probably have to go through either Nick Nurse or Brad Stevens, both crafty little buggers. So Bud better have some tricks up his sleeve if a team figures out a way to stimy the Bucks primary attack.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#5 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:48 pm

The Bucks win with defense as much as offense, so no, I don't think they are fools gold at all.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#6 » by durka » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:48 pm

Whether it was with this team or the Hawks, Bud hasnt shown to be able to adapt his system in the playoffs. Getting a high seed and rolling through weak teams in the early rounds is great and all, but untill him and Giannis show they can adjust when a series gets tough, I dont have much faith in them.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#7 » by OriginalRed » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:49 pm

Wouldn't shock me at all if the Bucks don't get out of the East. I'd be a bit surprised but I've seen the Bucks crumble in tight situations before.

I wouldn't bet against them but if the Raptors or the Celtics end up representing the East this year, it wouldn't be a shocker. My faith in the Bucks comes strictly from the fact that no other team in the East has a Top 5 player like Giannis and as we know, superstars win you playoff games.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#8 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


It's not that simple. For starters you seem to ignoring that while they have a very good offense, their domination of the league starts with their dominating defense led by not one, but two DPOY level defenders.

I don't doubt that at least one coach/defense will find some ways to slow the Bucks offense at least somewhat. But can you realistically do it enough to be able to match them on the scoreboard at the other end? Maybe, but I don't think anyone can justify having anyone but the Bucks be the clear favorites in the East.

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#9 » by Jabroni Lames » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:54 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wijthout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.


You need a unique combination of: strength, length, footspeed and IQ to stay with Giannis in transition and keep him out of the paint. Siakam is long and quick, but not strong enough. Kawhi had the perfect body type, even though he's quite a bit shorter than Giannis. OG is long, built like a tank and has very quick feet, so yeah, that's probably the Raptor's best bet.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#10 » by Duffman100 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:57 pm

Jabroni Lames wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wijthout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.


You need a unique combination of: strength, length, footspeed and IQ to stay with Giannis in transition and keep him out of the paint. Siakam is long and quick, but not strong enough. Kawhi had the perfect body type, even though he's quite a bit shorter than Giannis. OG is long, built like a tank and has very quick feet, so yeah, that's probably the Raptor's best bet.


And I honestly do think OG has all-defense potential. I just don't see the experience being there yet.

Boston has length, but lacks the frontcourt wall.
Philly has size, but not sure they have the defensive chemistry to close out on the shooters
Miami has Bam (who is a nightmare) but not sure who they have behind him to form that wall
Indiana doesn't have the defenders

Going to be REALLY hard to stop the Bucks this year.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#11 » by Jabroni Lames » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:03 pm

OriginalRed wrote:Wouldn't shock me at all if the Bucks don't get out of the East. I'd be a bit surprised but I've seen the Bucks crumble in tight situations before.

I wouldn't bet against them but if the Raptors or the Celtics end up representing the East this year, it wouldn't be a shocker. My faith in the Bucks comes strictly from the fact that no other team in the East has a Top 5 player like Giannis and as we know, superstars win you playoff games.


The Heat beat the Bucks twice this year, so if I'm the Bucks, I'm really concerned about facing top-tier coaches who can make good adjustments, specifically: Nurse, Stevens and Spoelstra.

Simmons and Embiid are also a nice Giannis stopper combo, but I'm not sold on Brett Brown.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#12 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:23 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Jabroni Lames wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wijthout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.


You need a unique combination of: strength, length, footspeed and IQ to stay with Giannis in transition and keep him out of the paint. Siakam is long and quick, but not strong enough. Kawhi had the perfect body type, even though he's quite a bit shorter than Giannis. OG is long, built like a tank and has very quick feet, so yeah, that's probably the Raptor's best bet.


And I honestly do think OG has all-defense potential. I just don't see the experience being there yet.

Boston has length, but lacks the frontcourt wall.
Philly has size, but not sure they have the defensive chemistry to close out on the shooters
Miami has Bam (who is a nightmare) but not sure who they have behind him to form that wall
Indiana doesn't have the defenders

Going to be REALLY hard to stop the Bucks this year.

My issue is that they gave middleton that money, and if they sign giannis to the supermax, they have no way of improving their team other than MLE and this bucks team already has a questionable set offense against good defense. Totally agree with you otherwise.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#13 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:47 pm

Let's (hopefully) just play the games and see what happens. Seems people are just holding onto their exit in the playoffs last year and don't believe in them until proven otherwise. They're contenders either way.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#14 » by Braggins » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:56 pm

I haven't watched the video yet, but I'll say that if the system is good and the team has enough talent, you don't necessarily need to make major adjustments. Buds system is good and the main problem in Atlanta was just that he didn't have the talent to overcome getting Lebron'ed. There wasn't any adjustment he could have made with those Atlanta teams. We saw that it took Golden State adding Durant to a 73 win team to comfortably overcome Lebron.

Having said that, I do think that its a little premature to assume the Bucks will win it all or even for sure win the East. Their system is good and they certainly have the talent, but no system/team is perfect and I do think they are a bit better suited to regular season basketball than playoff basketball and we haven't seen Giannis actually lead his team to the ultimate prize yet, so there are still some question marks. They should still probably be the favorite, though, or at least co-favorites with the two LA teams, and have a great shot at winning it all.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#15 » by Packbuckman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:21 pm

No their not they are the best team in the East with the best player that is motivated to prove he learned from last year. Last year when it started nobody thought we would have the best record in the league. Giannis just keeps improving and this year with that experience from last year’s playoffs are big. I like this team to win it all before the shutdown and still do.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#16 » by trwi7 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:22 pm

jamaalstar21 wrote:The Bucks have been questioned all season because they got upset in last years playoffs after their total domination of the regular season. Bud can't adjust blah blah, Giannis will get loaded up on blah blah.


It wasn't even that much of an upset if it was one at all. The Raptors finished two games back and Kawhi missed over 20 games and Lowry missed 15+. Each team blew the other team out once in the series, one game went to double OT and the other three games were one possession games in the final couple of minutes, Two evenly matched teams and Toronto just happened to win 3 of the 4 close games. In a 7 game series, sometimes that happens.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#17 » by Mister Ze » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:30 pm

I have the Bucks coming out of the East with ease if Middleton and Giannis pick up from where they left off
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#18 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:33 pm

Does anyone have them beating either LA team? Is making the finals this year and the next enough to get Giannis to sign the Supermax? because after he puts himself down for 35 percent of the cap and middletons making 30+, how do they improve if they cant beat those teams?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#19 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Does anyone have them beating either LA team? Is making the finals this year and the next enough to get Giannis to sign the Supermax? because after he puts himself down for 35 percent of the cap and middletons making 30+, how do they improve if they cant beat those teams?


Seems simple enough. Lebron ages out and the Clippers break up or Kawhi's health becomes a more significant issue. They don't have to add another star to pass the LA teams. Now maybe Lebron never ages out--dude's a freak after all. But this generation of stars is coming to an end. KD is coming off a major injury. Who knows what the Warriors look like now.

The Spurs and Lebron have warped everyone's ideas of how long windows stay open. Those are massive exceptions and not the rule.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#20 » by Vampirate » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm

Who in the East is really going to stop the Bucks? All of the good teams in the East either don't have the high end talent or are too green at the moment.
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