Are the Bucks fool's gold?

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#101 » by greg4012 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:16 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.


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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#102 » by The_Hater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:20 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Je K wrote:Bledsoe is gonna shock the world this year. A stadium without fans is the perfect cure for Bledsoe's playoff woes.

On a more serious note, the Bucks have definitely added wrinkles to their offense for when their normal stuff isn't working. Bud has allowed Middleton to work much more out of the midrange this season which has led to him potentially earning an All-NBA slot. Part of the reason why he struggled adapting to Bud's system last season was Bud forcing him behind the 3-point line. Bud has also been more willing to let Brook go to work in the paint this year if threes aren't falling. These types of adjustments aren't huge, but they're what this team needs to adapt to different situations when they can't impose their will offensively.

I also think that too many people focus on the Bucks offense in talking about their playoff chances. Stopping them is one thing, but scoring on them is a separate issue that doesn't get brought up much.


Also a lot of people (most?) don’t realize how good Middleton has been this season. By far his best season to date, he is going to make all-NBA and he had a 50 point game on a night where Giannis didn’t play. He’s been one of the 10 best players in the league this season IMO. So much for the - Giannis is the entire offense - argument.


If/when the Raps and Bucks meet I think whoever steps up more between Middleton and Norm Powell could be the deciding factor.

This season:

Middleton: 30 mins, 50/42/90 shooting (!) on 15.5 attempts for 21 pts/game
Powell: 29 mins, 50/40/84 shooting (!) on 11 attempts for 16 pts/game

mind you in Jan/Feb/March Norm put up 51/41/85 on 14 FGA for 20 ppg so almost identical to Middleton's great season

those two guys will be keys to any series between these teams. in the 6 games last year Middleton only had 1 with over 14 points. (11/12/9/30/6/14) If that happens again Raps will likely take it again. if middleton goes off it will likely be the bucks.


If the Raps and Bucks meet, Giannis, who is head and shoulders above anyone else on either team, will be the deciding factor. Playoff series are almost always decided by the best players and superstars. Last season the Raps had that superstar and that’s why they could compete with the league’s best.

Plus I would hope you recognize that cherry picking by far the best stretch of Powell’s otherwise up and down career to somehow put him on par with Middleton is pretty biased. On top of that, Middleton is the much better ball handler, passer and defender of the two but that information was obviously omitted. I just don’t see how comparing the Bucks 2nd best player and allstar to the Raps 6th or 7th best players makes any sense.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#103 » by 510TWSS » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:31 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:Does anyone have them beating either LA team? Is making the finals this year and the next enough to get Giannis to sign the Supermax? because after he puts himself down for 35 percent of the cap and middletons making 30+, how do they improve if they cant beat those teams?


Seems simple enough. Lebron ages out and the Clippers break up or Kawhi's health becomes a more significant issue. They don't have to add another star to pass the LA teams. Now maybe Lebron never ages out--dude's a freak after all. But this generation of stars is coming to an end. KD is coming off a major injury. Who knows what the Warriors look like now.

The Spurs and Lebron have warped everyone's ideas of how long windows stay open. Those are massive exceptions and not the rule.


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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#104 » by lobosloboslobos » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:37 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Plus I would hope you recognize that cherry picking by far the best stretch of Powell’s otherwise up and down career to somehow put him on par with Middleton is pretty biased. On top of that, Middleton is the much better ball handler, passer and defender of the two but that information was obviously omitted. I just don’t see how comparing the Bucks 2nd best player and allstar to the Raps 6th or 7th best players makes any sense.


my point is that with the Raps being a much more offensively balanced team, that if their "6th or 7th best player" can have a better offensive series than the clear cut #2 on Milwaukee, that would be huge. maybe it sounds like a stretch to you but i don't think it's a crazy thought given the similarity in their shooting numbers. i wasn't trying to argue that Norm is a better player than Middleton.

also i didn't cherry pick Norm's stats for this year any more than Middleton's. I gave their season stats side by side.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#105 » by The_Hater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:46 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Plus I would hope you recognize that cherry picking by far the best stretch of Powell’s otherwise up and down career to somehow put him on par with Middleton is pretty biased. On top of that, Middleton is the much better ball handler, passer and defender of the two but that information was obviously omitted. I just don’t see how comparing the Bucks 2nd best player and allstar to the Raps 6th or 7th best players makes any sense.


my point is that with the Raps being a much more offensively balanced team, that if their "6th or 7th best player" can have a better offensive series than the clear cut #2 on Milwaukee, that would be huge. maybe it sounds like a stretch to you but i don't think it's a crazy thought. i wasn't trying to argue that Norm is a better player than Middleton.


Fair enough, I apologize, my mistake.

But I’m not sure I see this as a huge deciding factor of the series either. I think Raps will need to slow Giannis down to a crawl in order to have any chance whatsoever making OG arguably the Raps most important individual player. Even if that happens, the Raps will be trying to score efficiently against the leagues best defensive team which is no easy task.

I think the chances of the Raps taking 4/7 from a healthy Bucks team are very, very slim but I would also say that about any EC team. I think many fans grossly underestimate how big the gap is between Milwaukee and the rest of the EC field.
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I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#106 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:15 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
It's not an argument, make your statement. I assert that the Bucks are a better team this year than last year. Are the Raptors a better team than they were last year, about equal to last year, or worse? You made the claim that the Bucks are about equal. Why not make a claim about the Raptors?


Once again you're twisting my words...I said the Bucks have the same play style as last season, I never said they're better or worst as a team. I don't know if the Raptors are better or worst than last year because they've been constantly missing key players and facing adversity all season long, something the Bucks haven't had to deal with.


So quit dancing around your statements, are the Bucks equal/better/worse? It's that simple


They're marginally better mainly because of experience...it's not like they jumped a tier or anything. If Kawhi re-signed I'd take the Raptors over the Bucks so it's not like they improved drastically.

Without Kawhi on the Raptors the Bucks are obviously better because this league is superstar dependent but if Bledsoe and Middleton don't show up then I give the Raptors a solid chance to upset again. My entire hope on the Raptors beating the Bucks this season relies on Bledsoe's and Middleton's performance. If Middleton is averaging 20 ppg and Bledsoe 15 ppg on good efficiency like they should be then it'll be very tough.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#107 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:24 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
Once again you're twisting my words...I said the Bucks have the same play style as last season, I never said they're better or worst as a team. I don't know if the Raptors are better or worst than last year because they've been constantly missing key players and facing adversity all season long, something the Bucks haven't had to deal with.


So quit dancing around your statements, are the Bucks equal/better/worse? It's that simple


They're marginally better mainly because of experience...it's not like they jumped a tier or anything. If Kawhi re-signed I'd take the Raptors over the Bucks so it's not like they improved drastically.

Without Kawhi on the Raptors the Bucks are obviously better because this league is superstar dependent but if Bledsoe and Middleton don't show up then I give the Raptors a solid chance to upset again. My entire hope on the Raptors beating the Bucks this season relies on Bledsoe's and Middleton's performance. If Middleton is averaging 20 ppg and Bledsoe 15 ppg on good efficiency like they should be then it'll be very tough.


Its hard to say the raps got better, but a series against them is not a gimme for the bucks. Wouldnt be surprised to see the raps winning against them in a h2h matchup.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#108 » by Capn'O » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:40 pm

Depends on whether they make the finals or not.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#109 » by Dnt hate » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:42 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.

Hmmm let's see the sixers maybe?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#110 » by skones » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:18 am

Dnt hate wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.

Hmmm let's see the sixers maybe?


Giannis vs. the 6ers:

02/22/20: 31 points, 17 rebounds, 8 assists, 12/17 FG
02/06/20: 36 points, 20 rebounds, 6 assists, 13/25 FG
12/25/19: 18 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 8/27 FG
04/04/19: 45 points, 13 rebounds, 6 assists 13/22 FG
03/17/19: 52 points, 16 rebounds, 7 assists, 15/26 FG
10/24/18: 32 points, 18 rebounds 10 assists, 12/24 FG

I really don't think they have what it takes to slow him down. Not to take anything away from Al Horford, because the guy is a pros pro, but he doesn't have what it takes at this point in his career, and we saw that during the Boston series last year. Miami is actually the team that's given him the most trouble.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#111 » by Profound23 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:53 am

Hard to be considered fool's gold when very few people even believe you are gold. Outside of Buck fans and a select few media people, nobody is picking the Bucks.

Hell, I have been hearing more about Boston and Philly than Milwaukee and Toronto which is just crazy.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#112 » by Pablo Escobar » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:58 am

Depends on Giannis's jumper. If he's brick and his teammates are off once he gets loaded up on they'll lose. Only team with the length would be Philly but I don't expect a deep run from them.

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#113 » by Optms » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:04 am

They are the Raptors of the East pre-Kawhi and the Atlanta Hawks before that. Not sure how anyone can see different.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#114 » by old skool » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 am

I think that one of Milwaukee's greatest vulnerabilities is Antetokounmpo's poor shooting from the free throw line. Last year he averaged 4 missed FT's per game in the playoffs. That is a lot to miss in close games.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#115 » by Je K » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:17 am

Optms wrote:They are the Raptors of the East pre-Kawhi and the Atlanta Hawks before that. Not sure how anyone can see different.

Neither of those teams had a superstar, which is the minimum requirement to be a true contender. The Bucks do.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#116 » by greg4012 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:31 am

jezzerinho wrote:
This is the nub of it. Orlando for example has Gordon and Isaac (when fit) to man and help defend GA - two of the East's best defenders. It's never enough because they have too many ways to score and Orlando has too few.


Uhh what?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#117 » by Ayt » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:02 am

What does "fool's gold" mean? They obviously aren't a team that is a historical powerhouse. They have one dominant player in Giannis who is surrounded by role players. If they don't win a championship, it certainly won't be a huge surprise.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#118 » by Johnny Bball » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:20 am

Ayt wrote:What does "fool's gold" mean? They obviously aren't a team that is a historical powerhouse. They have one dominant player in Giannis who is surrounded by role players. If they don't win a championship, it certainly won't be a huge surprise.



Fool's Gold; translation; 1) Fools gold being iron pyrite, a rock that looks like gold only because the person has no knowledge of what gold actually is, and is a fool. 2) When one doesn't look at anything in depth and has no real BB knowledge, and expects the basketball playoffs to unfold entirely like the standings do, and any deviation from the norm they just label as Fool's Gold, because the result confounds these same folk.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#119 » by Packbuckman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:23 am

Optms wrote:They are the Raptors of the East pre-Kawhi and the Atlanta Hawks before that. Not sure how anyone can see different.


Lmao what ever dude the ones that actually know about basketball know how good they are. And the only reason the espns of the world will talk up the Celtic’s always for the East. If this team plays for Boston oh my how this team would be talked about. I don’t see anyone beating them in the East and the only teams on their level is the two LA teams who we match up well with.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#120 » by tonyreyes123 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:57 am

I'm a Bucks fan but i have a feeling they're gonna fold again
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