Are the Bucks fool's gold?

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#141 » by GiannisNowitzki » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:27 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Profound23 wrote:Hard to be considered fool's gold when very few people even believe you are gold. Outside of Buck fans and a select few media people, nobody is picking the Bucks.

Hell, I have been hearing more about Boston and Philly than Milwaukee and Toronto which is just crazy.


You're kidding right? Just about everyone has the Bucks coming out of the East. TV segments like ''Who's the biggest threat to the Bucks?" doesn't mean they're picking someone but the Bucks to win the East.
The Bucks are heavy favorites to come out of the East and rightly so. They are no fools gold to me. A team lead by arguably the best player in the league and one of the best coaches in the league deserves to be talked about in high regard.


How good is the coach really when all he has done is win meaningless rs games and suck at playoffs for years?
I dont even know how much better Giannis is than Siakam and with the latter having a champion experience, I will place on my bets on Siakam to deliver when it matters compared to a stat machine in Giannis.

The Bucks are just managing terribly when they had Giannis for years and its always Giannis and a bunch of role players that can only shoot the 3. I bet if Masai comes to that franchise, he can win a chip there in a yr. They are 1 yr from losing Giannis and restart a 10 yr rebuild being left with washed up Middleton.

Ironically if im the Bucks GM, I make a call to Masai and beg him to acquire Giannis for Siakam since they are best friends and take the safe route instead of risking a Lebron decision.

Solid analysis, bro. I bet Horst will be on the phone any moment now, just begging someone to take the 2x league MVP off their hands, b/c, you know, that washed up 50/40/90 Middleton.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#142 » by Clay Davis » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:27 pm

I seem to recall Giannis saying something about how Bud's system didn't allow him to practice his midrange game (which you need during the post season when teams adjust to take away your favourite shots)

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#143 » by old skool » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:52 pm

Showtime23 wrote:How good is the coach really when all he has done is win meaningless rs games and suck at playoffs for years?
I dont even know how much better Giannis is than Siakam and with the latter having a champion experience, I will place on my bets on Siakam to deliver when it matters compared to a stat machine in Giannis.

The Bucks are just managing terribly when they had Giannis for years and its always Giannis and a bunch of role players that can only shoot the 3. I bet if Masai comes to that franchise, he can win a chip there in a yr. They are 1 yr from losing Giannis and restart a 10 yr rebuild being left with washed up Middleton.

Ironically if im the Bucks GM, I make a call to Masai and beg him to acquire Giannis for Siakam since they are best friends and take the safe route instead of risking a Lebron decision.


1. You are wrong, the Bucks did not suck in the playoffs last year. They had a great playoff run, arguably the second best in the NBA. They were on the verge of beating the eventual champs. They gained valuable experience, in what was the first deep run for virtually everyone on the team.

2. You are wrong to bash Milwaukee for not winning a title when Antetokounmpo was 24. People said the same thing about the Chicago Bulls when they could not win with Michael Jordan when he was 24, 25, and 26. Antetokounmpo has three more playoffs to match Jordan's 1st title at age 27.

3. You are wrong, the Bucks are a mediocre 3-point shooting team. Their success is predicated on superior defense and rebounding. They have the #1 defense in the NBA, allowing 101.9 points per 100 possessions. They have the #1 opponent FGA% at 41.3%. They are #1 in rebounds. They are #1 in scoring because they play fast, not because of 3-point scoring. Because of their great defense, they are #1 in point differential.

4. The Bucks future is in good shape. They can extend Antetokounmpo this year (or next if cap volatility makes that a better option for him). Middleton, age 28, is under contract through age 32 and playing better than ever. Every other contract is reasonable and an appropriate length for veterans. GM Jon Horst has completely revamped the roster. Antetokounmpo and Middleton are the only two players in the ten man rotation who were on the roster at the start of the season before last. Bucks don't need to wring their hands in a vacuum, worrying that Antetokounmpo can become a free agent at the end of next season. They can talk with him, work with him, continue to improve the team and take steps every day to keep him happy on and off the court. They have been doing this throughout his career, with a new GM who revamped the roster, a new coaching staff that installed winning schemes, and new ownership that built a new practice facility and arena. No other NBA team has made so many improvements in such a short time, and Antetokounmpo has had a front row seat to watch it all happen
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#144 » by Duffman100 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:55 pm

old skool wrote:
4. The Bucks future is in good shape. They can extend Antetokounmpo this year (or next if cap volatility makes that a better option for him). Middleton, age 28, is under contract through age 32 and playing better than ever. Every other contract is reasonable and an appropriate length for veterans. GM Jon Horst has completely revamped the roster. Antetokounmpo and Middleton are the only two players in the ten man rotation who were on the roster at the start of the season before last. Bucks don't need to wring their hands in a vacuum, worrying that Antetokounmpo can become a free agent at the end of next season. They can talk with him, work with him, continue to improve the team and take steps every day to keep him happy on and off the court. They have been doing this throughout his career, with a new GM who revamped the roster, a new coaching staff that installed winning schemes, and new ownership that built a new practice facility and arena. No other NBA team has made so many improvements in such a short time, and Antetokounmpo has had a front row seat to watch it all happen


Yeah, deep down in my heart, I know he's not leaving.

But it's a fun fantasy to pass the time for the next year.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#145 » by RRyder823 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Profound23 wrote:Hard to be considered fool's gold when very few people even believe you are gold. Outside of Buck fans and a select few media people, nobody is picking the Bucks.

Hell, I have been hearing more about Boston and Philly than Milwaukee and Toronto which is just crazy.


You're kidding right? Just about everyone has the Bucks coming out of the East. TV segments like ''Who's the biggest threat to the Bucks?" doesn't mean they're picking someone but the Bucks to win the East.
The Bucks are heavy favorites to come out of the East and rightly so. They are no fools gold to me. A team lead by arguably the best player in the league and one of the best coaches in the league deserves to be talked about in high regard.


How good is the coach really when all he has done is win meaningless rs games and suck at playoffs for years?
I dont even know how much better Giannis is than Siakam and with the latter having a champion experience, I will place on my bets on Siakam to deliver when it matters compared to a stat machine in Giannis.

The Bucks are just managing terribly when they had Giannis for years and its always Giannis and a bunch of role players that can only shoot the 3. I bet if Masai comes to that franchise, he can win a chip there in a yr. They are 1 yr from losing Giannis and restart a 10 yr rebuild being left with washed up Middleton.

Ironically if im the Bucks GM, I make a call to Masai and beg him to acquire Giannis for Siakam since they are best friends and take the safe route instead of risking a Lebron decision.
If this is satire then job well done sir

If this isn't then good lord wtf did I just read?

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#146 » by LoveMyRaps » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:13 pm

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:The Raptors are becoming overrated.

Siakam's 'improvement' this year is a bit of a myth.

If the Celtics had a good post defender, they'd be my best bet to knock out the Bucks, but they don't.

Don't really see a team in the East stopping Giannis this season.


How exactly is it a myth?
And how exactly are we becoming overrated when we still barely get any media attention after everything we've accomplished this year? Especially when you consider that a lot of people had us missing the playoffs before the season started.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01.html

Where is the improvement? He takes more shots, so his scoring goes up but his efficiency goes down.

Everything else stays the same in terms of impact. His BPM and VORP are slightly worse.

I don't see this improvement people keep talking about. He is pretty much the same player he was last season.

If anything, this version is worse, because he can't be your 1st option.


What an ignorant comment :lol: You basically admitted to never watching him play this season and are just looking at his stats.
As one poster already pointed out, he went from being the 2nd/3rd option to the clear cut first option attracting the opposing teams best defenders. Yet his scoring went up big time and efficiency stayed the exact same (don't know why you said it went down).

IF you had watched him play this season you'd know he's made significant strides in his game.
Much improved handles, pulling up for 3s, drastic improvements in his post up game, stepback mid-range jumpers, etc. In past years, he was only taking corner 3s & his mid-range game was non-existent. He's added so much to his game this year it's crazy. But you wouldn't know because you know you don't watch any Raptors games.

Here are just a few games off the top of my head that do a wonderful job portraying his remarkable growth.





Don't make your concluding statements based on box scores. Makes you look like a casual.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#147 » by Southpaw » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:35 pm

I wouldn't say they're fools gold but they have clear and exploitable weaknesses. This will be a very important playoffs for Giannis and Middleton.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#148 » by eyeatoma » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#149 » by mademan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:13 pm

Southpaw wrote:I wouldn't say they're fools gold but they have clear and exploitable weaknesses. This will be a very important playoffs for Giannis and Middleton.


Is there a team without a clear and exploitable weakness? Clippers dont have any real size (or 2 way bigs for that matter) and the Lakers have very suspect shooting.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#150 » by bon » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.
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That's really the only game Philly has managed to slow him down and reports were he was injured that game. Philly has big bodies but Brown isn't a good enough coach to scheme against him
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#151 » by Ayt » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:38 pm

Clay Davis wrote:I seem to recall Giannis saying something about how Bud's system didn't allow him to practice his midrange game (which you need during the post season when teams adjust to take away your favourite shots)

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When did he say that?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#152 » by Lockdown504090 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:13 pm

mademan wrote:
Southpaw wrote:I wouldn't say they're fools gold but they have clear and exploitable weaknesses. This will be a very important playoffs for Giannis and Middleton.


Is there a team without a clear and exploitable weakness? Clippers dont have any real size (or 2 way bigs for that matter) and the Lakers have very suspect shooting.

what physical big can take advantage of them, jokic just lost 50 lbs and embiid will never make the finals. AD isnt physical enough to play outside of his normal playstyle against the clippers.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#153 » by mademan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:22 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Southpaw wrote:I wouldn't say they're fools gold but they have clear and exploitable weaknesses. This will be a very important playoffs for Giannis and Middleton.


Is there a team without a clear and exploitable weakness? Clippers dont have any real size (or 2 way bigs for that matter) and the Lakers have very suspect shooting.

what physical big can take advantage of them, jokic just lost 50 lbs and embiid will never make the finals. AD isnt physical enough to play outside of his normal playstyle against the clippers.


go watch the Bucks/Clippers game in December and how easy it was for the Bucks to score. Lou/Harrell combo is a liability against them as Harrell cant bully his way to the rim against the Bucks size. On the other side, Zubac and Harrell are too small to stop Giannis in the paint, regardless of the perimeter defense on him. It's just an awful matchup for the Clips that the Bucks will exploit
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#154 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:02 pm

Chandan wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
How exactly is it a myth?
And how exactly are we becoming overrated when we still barely get any media attention after everything we've accomplished this year? Especially when you consider that a lot of people had us missing the playoffs before the season started.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01.html

Where is the improvement? He takes more shots, so his scoring goes up but his efficiency goes down.

Everything else stays the same in terms of impact. His BPM and VORP are slightly worse.

I don't see this improvement people keep talking about. He is pretty much the same player he was last season.

If anything, this version is worse, because he can't be your 1st option.


The man went from being a 2nd option with kawhi on his team to being the number 1 option in an offseason. of course his efficiency would take a dip. Sure he puts up more shots, it doesn't mean that most of his shots aren't more difficult because teams are game planning against him. You are suggesting given the opportunity everyone can become a 25 ppg in the nba at their previous efficiency?

I dont even think he could ever be an 1a player. but to say you dont see the improvements because his % took a dip?
that is actually one of the more idiotic oversight I've seen in a while.


So where did he improve?

I mean you're spouting things, but not showing me where he improved?

Did he improve as a scorer? He scores at a higher volume, but less much efficiently. If you want that call that improvement, then I guess.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#155 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
How exactly is it a myth?
And how exactly are we becoming overrated when we still barely get any media attention after everything we've accomplished this year? Especially when you consider that a lot of people had us missing the playoffs before the season started.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01.html

Where is the improvement? He takes more shots, so his scoring goes up but his efficiency goes down.

Everything else stays the same in terms of impact. His BPM and VORP are slightly worse.

I don't see this improvement people keep talking about. He is pretty much the same player he was last season.

If anything, this version is worse, because he can't be your 1st option.


What an ignorant comment :lol: You basically admitted to never watching him play this season and are just looking at his stats.
As one poster already pointed out, he went from being the 2nd/3rd option to the clear cut first option attracting the opposing teams best defenders. Yet his scoring went up big time and efficiency stayed the exact same (don't know why you said it went down).

IF you had watched him play this season you'd know he's made significant strides in his game.
Much improved handles, pulling up for 3s, drastic improvements in his post up game, stepback mid-range jumpers, etc. In past years, he was only taking corner 3s & his mid-range game was non-existent. He's added so much to his game this year it's crazy. But you wouldn't know because you know you don't watch any Raptors games.

Here are just a few games off the top of my head that do a wonderful job portraying his remarkable growth.





Don't make your concluding statements based on box scores. Makes you look like a casual.


I already said he's a 1st option.

His scoring efficiency WENT DOWN. His TS went DOWN. His PER has stayed the same, but his scoring efficiency went down.

You can cherry-pick 2-3 amazing games from any player and say he's improved.

All of those improvements you cite don't correlate with any impact stats.

You're using your own biases. I'm using STATISTICAL FACTS.

Don't jump to generalizations when you have no clue what I watch or not.

The impact numbers clearly show him being a similar impact player as last season. The only difference is that he scores more, but does so on higher volume with less efficiency.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#156 » by skones » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:09 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The issue being that the Raptors couldn't stop him wi\thout Kawhi taking the point on defense. When it was Siakam, we couldn't stop him.

So, who in the East has both the man defender and help defense to slow Giannis down? I don't think there is anyone this year, unless OG really shows up.
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And the two that came after when he didn't have a bad back and Bledsoe wasn't out?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#157 » by GiannisAnte34 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm

Just going to leave this here. It's funny how Raptors fans always act like Siakam is some Superstar and Middleton is a complete bum

The 5 least efficient mid-range shooters

5. Andrew Wiggins (33.8 FG%)

4. Coby White (33.6 FG%)

3. Pascal Siakam (32.1 FG%)

2. Jimmy Butler (31.0 FG%)

1. Aaron Gordon (25.4 FG%)

The 5 most efficient mid-range shooters

5. CJ McCollum (49.3 FG%)

4. Malcolm Brogdon (50.6 FG%)

3. Kevin Love (52.0 FG%)

2. Khris Middleton (52.3 FG%)

1. Chris Paul (53.9 FG%)
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#158 » by Clay Davis » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:36 pm

Ayt wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:I seem to recall Giannis saying something about how Bud's system didn't allow him to practice his midrange game (which you need during the post season when teams adjust to take away your favourite shots)

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When did he say that?

The author of an Athletic article published last May said it's what he thought. He hints as much in direct quotes

“I feel like last year [before Budd] I was so comfortable shooting my mid-range shot, my fadeaway in the right post, doing all that, one-leg, two-legs, getting into the paint, shooting over guys, winning games,” Antetokounmpo said.

“I won games coming down the stretch like that. For you to score and be a closer, you gotta be able to add mid-range shots, a lot of easy shots.”

Under Budenholzer, Antetokounmpo’s mid-range game was de-emphasized. Last season, 37 percent of his shots came from the mid-range. This year, just 21 percent came from that same area. It was a change Antetokounmpo understood as he destroyed opponents like never before, but one that ultimately took away reps from some of the shots he felt he needed to beat the Raptors’ tough defense.

In Game 6, you could see him searching for those shots. As he attacked and ultimately could not get to the basket, he would slow down and create space for a mid-range jumper or floater. They just didn’t go in.

“And it’s something from Year 5 to Year 6, I was like, ‘Yeah. OK, I put on seven pounds of muscle. Bro, I’m the most dominant guy in the **** league. I’m just going to go and **** dunk it.’ You can get away with it to a point. It’s good if you’re able to do it, but I gotta be more skilled. I gotta get back to my old self. Think like a guard, not as a big.”

“Obviously the great ones, it doesn’t matter what you do, they can still get to their spots and shoot over you,” Antetokounmpo said. “Same thing that Kawhi did. Same thing that all the greats did in the past. The same thing that I’m going to do in the future.”

“Sometimes, you know you’ve got the answers, but you’re not confident enough to say them,” Antetokounmpo said. “That’s how it is in basketball. I know the answers. I know what I gotta do, but there was a situation where I wasn’t confident enough doing it and that’s because I didn’t do them all year? Maybe. That’s because I felt like if I shoot those shots they’re not going to go in and I’m giving them an extra possession? Maybe.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#159 » by Duffman100 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:04 am

GiannisAnte34 wrote:Just going to leave this here. It's funny how Raptors fans always act like Siakam is some Superstar and Middleton is a complete bum

The 5 least efficient mid-range shooters

5. Andrew Wiggins (33.8 FG%)

4. Coby White (33.6 FG%)

3. Pascal Siakam (32.1 FG%)

2. Jimmy Butler (31.0 FG%)

1. Aaron Gordon (25.4 FG%)

The 5 most efficient mid-range shooters

5. CJ McCollum (49.3 FG%)

4. Malcolm Brogdon (50.6 FG%)

3. Kevin Love (52.0 FG%)

2. Khris Middleton (52.3 FG%)

1. Chris Paul (53.9 FG%)


Siakam never shoots from the mid range...
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#160 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:51 am

Duffman100 wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:Just going to leave this here. It's funny how Raptors fans always act like Siakam is some Superstar and Middleton is a complete bum

The 5 least efficient mid-range shooters

5. Andrew Wiggins (33.8 FG%)

4. Coby White (33.6 FG%)

3. Pascal Siakam (32.1 FG%)

2. Jimmy Butler (31.0 FG%)

1. Aaron Gordon (25.4 FG%)

The 5 most efficient mid-range shooters

5. CJ McCollum (49.3 FG%)

4. Malcolm Brogdon (50.6 FG%)

3. Kevin Love (52.0 FG%)

2. Khris Middleton (52.3 FG%)

1. Chris Paul (53.9 FG%)


Siakam never shoots from the mid range...


Comparing Middleton's greatest strength to Siakam's greatest weakness :lol:
Siakam just started shooting mid-range jumpers this year and its actually impressive that he's still shooting 32% considering they'd be tightly contested step back j's most of the time.
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