Are the Bucks fool's gold?

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#61 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:02 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The Bucks are 2nd in the league in 3 pt%, take away Giannis poor percentage, since he’s the passer in your scenario, and I believe they would rank 1st. So this is a very odd take.

Bucks are currently 16th in 3pt%, which took me by surprise as I had this perception that they're an elite 3pt shooting team

And a big reason for that mediocre team % is Brolo hitting only .296% on 4.7 att/gm. Giannis has actually been the better 3pt shooter which is, again, surprising
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#62 » by Duffman100 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:05 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The Bucks are 2nd in the league in 3 pt%, take away Giannis poor percentage, since he’s the passer in your scenario, and I believe they would rank 1st. So this is a very odd take.

Bucks are currently 16th in 3pt%, which took me by surprise as I had this perception that they're an elite 3pt shooting team

And a big reason for that mediocre team % is Brolo hitting only .296% on 4.7 att/gm. Giannis has actually been the better 3pt shooter which is, again, surprising


Shocks me that Lopez would fall that far. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back and shoots closer to mid 30s where he's been the previous 3 seasons.

He was a hassle in the ECF.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#63 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:05 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
We all know that winning the Finals is the pre-qualifier to resigning


If Bledsoe and Middleton didn't play like absolute scrubs against the Raptors, Giannis would be a champion right now and his name wouldn't be slandered.

2019 ECF
Bledsoe (6 gp) - 10p/4a/4r on 29/17/76
Middleton (6 gp) - 13.7p/4a/7r on 41/38/77

Bledsoe and Middleton played like they were bench players, in fact FVV and Norman Powell put up better numbers. Like I said, if it happens again Giannis is going to start questioning the situation...the truth hurts but you have to face it.


Yawn, what a boring talking point. We get it. The Raps won the 2019 NBA Finals, this forum has been reminded of it plenty. It's 2020 and teams/players have evolved.


Bucks are playing the same way they did last season...once the pressure builds and the role players around Giannis start bricking their 3s like they did last season things are going to get interesting.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#64 » by JayMKE » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:06 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:Bledsoe's issue is that it's a lot harder to get to the basket and finish in the playoffs and being a incredibly streaky shooter from deep, he loses confidence and his whole game falls apart for whatever reason. There are guys who turn this narrative around for themselves as you know like Kyle Lowry did last year, even if he's struggling to score if the rest of his game didn't fall apart it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. We have George Hill and healthy DiVicenzo this year waiting to step in too. Bucks need to make teams pay for swarming 4 guys at Giannis every time he put the ball down, a lot of it comes down to just hitting the open 3s.


He reminds me of Derozan TBH. Good regular season player, makes it to the playoffs, teams tighten up and his jumpshot fails him.

Lowry honestly gets a bad rap being tied to Derozan. His last few playoff stretches have been good to great. And even when his shot wasn't falling, he as still a net positive on the court with all the little things he did (charges, deflections, ref management).

Derozan was just useless.


Bledsoe's issue I think it more mental more than anything; he starts struggling to score then comes the rushed shots, stupid turnovers, missed free throws, and worst & most inexplicable of all getting totally torched on defense. If he could just keep the other parts of his game together it would make his cold stretches much easier to get thru, in the end Coach Bud has to make the adjustments if need be since there are other guys who can step up.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#65 » by Duffman100 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:10 pm

JayMKE wrote:
Bledsoe's issue I think it more mental more than anything; he starts struggling to score then comes the rushed shots, stupid turnovers, missed free throws, and worst & most inexplicable of all getting totally torched on defense. If he could just keep the other parts of his game together it would make his cold stretches much easier to get thru, in the end Coach Bud has to make the adjustments if need be since there are other guys who can step up.


Which was my big criticism of whether he was a championship PG. He's an athletic freak, great defender, explosive. But I just have never got floor general or the ability to read and dictate the flow of the game.

That's why I'm a big fan of George Hill who is shown that he can be that type of player.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#66 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:11 pm

JayMKE wrote:The team with the best record in the league, on pace for 70 wins, with a 25 year old back to back MVP, Pop's former right hand man and two time COTY as HC is fools gold? Seriously, get off our nuts Toronto fans. Bucks win Game 3 of ECF last year and they're NBA champions right now.


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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#67 » by Vampirate » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Seems simple enough. Lebron ages out and the Clippers break up or Kawhi's health becomes a more significant issue. They don't have to add another star to pass the LA teams. Now maybe Lebron never ages out--dude's a freak after all. But this generation of stars is coming to an end. KD is coming off a major injury. Who knows what the Warriors look like now.

The Spurs and Lebron have warped everyone's ideas of how long windows stay open. Those are massive exceptions and not the rule.


My issue with the Bucks is simply age, they are definitely poised to at least contend for a championship in the next year or 2 however, aside from Giannis, most of their core players will be on the wrong side of 30 once Giannis hits FA.

(for the record I have him staying in Milwaukee at about an 80% chance)


Except these 30+ vets are the role players, Giannis and Middleton are both still in their prime. The Lakers, Raptors and Clips also have a lot of key rotation players past 30 with Lebron, Lowry and George, top 2 players on these teams, all 30+. Kawhi is 29. All of these players will be logging a lot more playoff minutes than Lopez, Hill and Matthews will in Milwaukee and if they get injured, the blow to their team’s playoff chances will be far more crippling.

Regardless, in most instances, having a mixture of vets and youth is a good thing. Predominantly young teams rarely compete for titles.


Except I am not talking about the Bucks right now, or even next year. My point was, timeline wise there isn't a core player on the Bucks roster that matches Giannis' age. This is a roster that's meant to compete now (for a championship), not really 4-5 years down the road on his max contract.

Ideally, you'd want another core player who's age is 1 year younger than him. When Giannis hits his prime at 27 years, that other core piece will be entering their prime prolonging the championship window.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#68 » by VanWest82 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:13 pm

I do think their offense can be slowed due to their inconsistent three point shooting. Their defense is not fool's gold, it's legit. Bledsoe, Hill, and DiVincenzo at the point of attack plus Giannis and the Lopez Bros protecting the rim. It's hard to score on them.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#69 » by Snakebites » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:14 pm

We get these conversations every time you have a team who's had a great regular season but didn't win the championship.

I still remember all of the Realgmers in 2011 decrying Lebron James for being a playoff loser much as they are Giannis now. If Realgm existed in 1989 I'm sure posters would be bashing Jordan in the same fashion.

This is their second year as a title contender and the year isn't even over yet. Hold your horses, people.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#70 » by MrSparkle » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

I do think that they’re too 1-dimensional in their top-3. If Giannis could shoot like Durant (or Kawhi), I could see them winning with just one superstar... but Giannis is a mediocre shooter. Meanwhile Middleton and Bledsoe are very good but def. below star tier - neither will take over a game on their own. They’re obviously complimentary players. So it’s just a vulnerable contender - certainly not fakes. They’re very good and favorites for a reason.

The Cs and Sixers have issues but they’re loaded. The Heat and Raps have chemistry and depth. It’s tough to predict. I had Bucks before the shutdown, but I need to see 3 games before calling this one, because every team will look different due to this Covid break. I do think the East is anyone’s to take - the top 5 are fairly close and even.

Toronto will probably be the most polished team coming in. They’ve had limited access to their shooting facilities since May. Giannis and Middleton had nowhere to shoot for most the lockdown.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#71 » by The_Hater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:05 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The Bucks are 2nd in the league in 3 pt%, take away Giannis poor percentage, since he’s the passer in your scenario, and I believe they would rank 1st. So this is a very odd take.

Bucks are currently 16th in 3pt%, which took me by surprise as I had this perception that they're an elite 3pt shooting team

And a big reason for that mediocre team % is Brolo hitting only .296% on 4.7 att/gm. Giannis has actually been the better 3pt shooter which is, again, surprising


You’re right, I obviously had sorting issues on the stats page. Sorry Lockdown.

Still, other than Giannis, who would be the passer and Lopez, every player in their rotation appears to be at a least league average 3 point shooter. Hill, Korver and Middleton all have outstanding numbers. Plus they’re 2nd in the league in offensive efficiency so it’s not like they’ve struggled to get quality shots this season.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#72 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:06 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
If Bledsoe and Middleton didn't play like absolute scrubs against the Raptors, Giannis would be a champion right now and his name wouldn't be slandered.

2019 ECF
Bledsoe (6 gp) - 10p/4a/4r on 29/17/76
Middleton (6 gp) - 13.7p/4a/7r on 41/38/77

Bledsoe and Middleton played like they were bench players, in fact FVV and Norman Powell put up better numbers. Like I said, if it happens again Giannis is going to start questioning the situation...the truth hurts but you have to face it.


Yawn, what a boring talking point. We get it. The Raps won the 2019 NBA Finals, this forum has been reminded of it plenty. It's 2020 and teams/players have evolved.


Bucks are playing the same way they did last season...once the pressure builds and the role players around Giannis start bricking their 3s like they did last season things are going to get interesting.


Raps are missing a high volume mid-range shooter that shot 49% from mid-range on over 100 shots. Good luck "playing the same way"
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#73 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
Yawn, what a boring talking point. We get it. The Raps won the 2019 NBA Finals, this forum has been reminded of it plenty. It's 2020 and teams/players have evolved.


Bucks are playing the same way they did last season...once the pressure builds and the role players around Giannis start bricking their 3s like they did last season things are going to get interesting.


Raps are missing a high volume mid-range shooter that shot 49% from mid-range on over 100 shots. Good luck "playing the same way"


like you said "it's 2020 and teams/players have evolved"....soon enough you'll be introduced to the new and improved Bucks killer Norman Powell :lol: don't be surprised when he averages 20 ppg, remember you heard it here first.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#74 » by Jabroni Lames » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:18 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
We all know that winning the Finals is the pre-qualifier to resigning


If Bledsoe and Middleton didn't play like absolute scrubs against the Raptors, Giannis would be a champion right now and his name wouldn't be slandered.

2019 ECF
Bledsoe (6 gp) - 10p/4a/4r on 29/17/76
Middleton (6 gp) - 13.7p/4a/7r on 41/38/77

Bledsoe and Middleton played like they were bench players, in fact FVV and Norman Powell put up better numbers. Like I said, if it happens again Giannis is going to start questioning the situation...the truth hurts but you have to face it.


Yawn, what a boring talking point. We get it. The Raps won the 2019 NBA Finals, this forum has been reminded of it plenty. It's 2020 and teams/players have evolved.


Have the Bucks actually evolved though? They just seem to be doubling down on Coach Bud's system this year. 2 Lopez twins is almost literally doubling down. lol.

That's the whole point of the BB Breakdown video analysis in the OP ..... he doesn't believe that Bud's system will hold up in the playoffs against savvy coaching adjustments.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#75 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:27 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
Bucks are playing the same way they did last season...once the pressure builds and the role players around Giannis start bricking their 3s like they did last season things are going to get interesting.


Raps are missing a high volume mid-range shooter that shot 49% from mid-range on over 100 shots. Good luck "playing the same way"


like you said "it's 2020 and teams/players have evolved"....soon enough you'll be introduced to the new and improved Bucks killer Norman Powell :lol: don't be surprised when he averages 20 ppg, remember you heard it here first.


Yea Norman Powell will fill the shoes of Kawhi Leonard. I'll file that one away next to "if the Celtics swapped Kemba and Lowry, they'd be the clear favorites in the East"
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#76 » by BFRESH44 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


The Bucks are 2nd in the league in 3 pt%, take away Giannis poor percentage, since he’s the passer in your scenario, and I believe they would rank 1st. So this is a very odd take.


This isn’t accurate. The Bucks were a middle of the pack 3 point shooting team

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#77 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:30 pm

Jabroni Lames wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
If Bledsoe and Middleton didn't play like absolute scrubs against the Raptors, Giannis would be a champion right now and his name wouldn't be slandered.

2019 ECF
Bledsoe (6 gp) - 10p/4a/4r on 29/17/76
Middleton (6 gp) - 13.7p/4a/7r on 41/38/77

Bledsoe and Middleton played like they were bench players, in fact FVV and Norman Powell put up better numbers. Like I said, if it happens again Giannis is going to start questioning the situation...the truth hurts but you have to face it.


Yawn, what a boring talking point. We get it. The Raps won the 2019 NBA Finals, this forum has been reminded of it plenty. It's 2020 and teams/players have evolved.


Have the Bucks actually evolved though? They just seem to be doubling down on Coach Bud's system this year. 2 Lopez twins is almost literally doubling down. lol.

That's the whole point of the BB Breakdown video analysis in the OP ..... he doesn't believe that Bud's system will hold up in the playoffs against savvy coaching adjustments.


News to me that defending the rim in the post season is a bad strategy. Again, the Raps don't have a 49% volume mid-range shooter in Kawhi to punish that type of defense. It's been proven this season that the blueprint to beat the Bucks is to defend the 3 and shoot the 3 well. I'll take my chances that no team in the East can do that 4 times. Certainly not going to be the 76ers. The Raptors don't have the spacing to get hot from 3 again, having a deadly mid-range shooter like Kawhi really does a lot for an offense that this forum severely underrates. It's honestly laughable that the Raptors are somehow better and the regular season is proof of that, but the Bucks improving on their regular season campaign is discredited because of last seasons playoff result.s
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#78 » by old skool » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:31 pm

I don't know what will prove or disprove that the Bucks are fool's gold. This playoff season is impossible to predict as teams react to an unprecedented situation.

Milwaukee is a much better team than last year. Adding Robin Lopez at back-up center is a major upgrade, as they went the entire playoffs last year without a true center behind brother Brook. Wes Matthews has generally replaced Malcolm Brogdon - not as good on offense but better defensively. George Hill is shooting 48% 3FGA% and 57.1% 2FGA% in his first full season in Milwaukee. Kyle Korver provides added perimeter shooting, shooting 41.5% 3FGA%. Marvin Williams should be able to replicate the playoff contributions of Nikola Mirotic. Donte DiVincenzo has emerged as an energetic 6th man and a disruptive defender.

Gone from last year's roster are Malcom Brogdon, Matthew Delevedova, Tony Snell, Thon Maker, John Henson, Nikola Mirotic, and Tim Frazier.

Still on the roster, but in reduced roles as a result of the talent upgrades are Pat Connaughton, D.J. Wilson, and Sterling Brown.

And the biggest improvement on the roster has been Giannis Antetokounmpo. At age 25 he is better than a year ago, posting more points and rebounds in spite of playing fewer minutes. On the other end of the floor he is a DPOY candidate.

Khris Middleton is having his best season yet, shooting 49.9% FGA% and 41.8% 3FGA%.

Eric Bledsoe has yet to prove himself in the playoffs, but people seem to discount his status as a member of the NBA All-Defense 1st team.

Milwaukee had a great season in 2018-19 and are better in 2019-20. There is no reason to assume they will win the championship, nor should anyone think they will be an easy opponent.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#79 » by Je K » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:31 pm

Bledsoe is gonna shock the world this year. A stadium without fans is the perfect cure for Bledsoe's playoff woes.

On a more serious note, the Bucks have definitely added wrinkles to their offense for when their normal stuff isn't working. Bud has allowed Middleton to work much more out of the midrange this season which has led to him potentially earning an All-NBA slot. Part of the reason why he struggled adapting to Bud's system last season was Bud forcing him behind the 3-point line. Bud has also been more willing to let Brook go to work in the paint this year if threes aren't falling. These types of adjustments aren't huge, but they're what this team needs to adapt to different situations when they can't impose their will offensively.

I also think that too many people focus on the Bucks offense in talking about their playoff chances. Stopping them is one thing, but scoring on them is a separate issue that doesn't get brought up much.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#80 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:41 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
Raps are missing a high volume mid-range shooter that shot 49% from mid-range on over 100 shots. Good luck "playing the same way"


like you said "it's 2020 and teams/players have evolved"....soon enough you'll be introduced to the new and improved Bucks killer Norman Powell :lol: don't be surprised when he averages 20 ppg, remember you heard it here first.


Yea Norman Powell will fill the shoes of Kawhi Leonard. I'll file that one away next to "if the Celtics swapped Kemba and Lowry, they'd be the clear favorites in the East"


Norman Powell alone won't fill the shoes of Kawhi...it's more of a collective effort between FVV, Lowry, Siakam, Powell, Ibaka etc...all these guys have stepped up their games, if you add up the total improvement in points/rebounds/assists you'll end up with Kawhi's numbers.

18-19 season --> 19-20 season
Lowry: 14.2 ppg (.411 FG%) --> 19.7 ppg (.417 FG%)
FVV: 11.0 ppg (.410 FG%) --> 17.6 ppg (.409 FG%)
Siakam: 16.9 ppg (.549 FG%) --> 23.6 ppg (.459 FG%)
Powell: 8.6 ppg (.483 FG%) --> 16.4 ppg (.502 FG%)
OG: 7 ppg (.453 FG%) --> 10.7 ppg (.507 FG%)
Ibaka: 15 ppg (.529 FG%) --> 16 ppg (.518 FG%)

Total 2018-19 --> 72.7 ppg
Total 2019-20 --> 104 ppg
Total improvement --> 31.3 ppg

Kawhi 2018-19 regular season --> 26.6 ppg
Kawhi 2018-19 playoffs --> 30.5 ppg

But hey, keep twisting my words and making it seem like I think Norman Powell alone will fill Kawhi shoes. I mean he is a Bucks killer, maybe he'll turn into Kawhi once he see's those ugly green jerseys :lol:
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