If the Lakers had traded Shaq to the Mavs for Dirk. How many titles does Kobe and Dirk win?

[AMW27]

Before the Lakers traded Shaq to Miami, they were in talks with the Mavs. The Mavs were willing to trade Antoine Walker, Michael finley and one other player(forgot who it was) along with a first round draft pick for Shaq. Some people may forget or didn't know that the Lakers were trying to get Dirk in return, but the Mavs declined and the two sides ended discussion of a trade.

It's understandable for the Mavs to try to put Shaq next to Dirk. Understandable for the Lakers to try and get Dirk. If you're trading a superstar you want to get the best deal possible.

But what if the Mavs got suckered into giving up Dirk for Shaq? I believe Kobe couldve won 4 titles post Shaq instead of 2 that he did win.

As for Dallas they would have regretted that trade and looked stupid because Shaq wouldn't have been a dominant player long enough after the trade and the Mavs never would have won with him.

So how many titles do you think a Kobe/Dirk combo would've won?

[packforfreedom]

I don't like the fit and I'd rather have Kobe-Gasol-Odom than Kobe and Dirk.

[sacking123]

Before the Lakers traded Shaq to Miami, they were in talks with the Mavs. The Mavs were willing to trade Antoine Walker, Michael finley and one other player(forgot who it was) along with a first round draft pick for Shaq. Some people may forget or didn't know that the Lakers were trying to get Dirk in return, but the Mavs declined and the two sides ended discussion of a trade.

It's understandable for the Mavs to try to put Shaq next to Dirk. Understandable for the Lakers to try and get Dirk. If you're trading a superstar you want to get the best deal possible.

But what if the Mavs got suckered into giving up Dirk for Shaq? I believe Kobe couldve won 4 titles post Shaq instead of 2 that he did win.

As for Dallas they would have regretted that trade and looked stupid because Shaq wouldn't have been a dominant player long enough after the trade and the Mavs never would have won with him.

So how many titles do you think a Kobe/Dirk combo would've won?

This is one of those what ifs that just doesn't work and should never be thought of, because Dallas wasn't going to give up Dirk, full stop, period, put the phone down, end of story, never speak of this ever again type of situation. Let's talk about how many titles Kobe would have won with Dirk in New York after Pat Riley traded for them both. This was only 1 day after Riley and Wade were traded to the Knicks for the rights of future Unicorn, 2 cheerleaders and a soda machine.

[dirkforpres]

Well Dirk is better than Pau and the Kobe-Pau duo won 2 rings... So I have to assume they’d probably win 3, maybe 4.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

I voted 5 because nobody else did.

[OdomFan]

I think 2 to 3 championships are possible much like with Gasol, but it comes down to what the front office can come up with to fill in the rest of the roster around Kobe and Dirk.

Can't blame Dallas for not wanting to do it though. If this was 1998-2000 Shaq, then maybe they'd go for it, but this was a Shaq that was getting close to no longer being the top player. So it wouldn't make much sense for them in the long run. Especially if Nash still ends up leaving for Phoenix. They'd have completely set themselves up be a big failure by 2006. Shaq and Nash didn't exactly get along in Phoenix in 2008, so there's a good chance that it's no different in this scenario either. Shaq may very well never win another championship while Kobes chances of getting more go up.

Heck, imagine if Nash decided to rejoin his buddy Dirk in Los Angeles instead of going to the Suns. I could definitely see the Lakers attempt to make that happen if this trade goes down.

[bovice]

Well Dirk is better than Pau and the Kobe-Pau duo won 2 rings... So I have to assume they’d probably win 3, maybe 4.

that's not how it works....

[The Duke]

If LAL traded Kobe for Vince, how many chips do LAL win?

[Slava]

A pick and pop big man who can spread the floor for a prime Kobe is like a match made in heaven.

[jg77]

If LAL traded Kobe for Vince, how many chips do LAL win?

0.

[druggas]

I voted 5 because nobody else did.

That's the spirit!

[AMW27]

I think 2 to 3 championships are possible much like with Gasol, but it comes down to what the front office can come up with to fill in the rest of the roster around Kobe and Dirk.

Can't blame Dallas for not wanting to do it though. If this was 1998-2000 Shaq, then maybe they'd go for it, but this was a Shaq that was getting close to no longer being the top player. So it wouldn't make much sense for them in the long run. Especially if Nash still ends up leaving for Phoenix. They'd have completely set themselves up be a big failure by 2006. Shaq and Nash didn't exactly get along in Phoenix in 2008, so there's a good chance that it's no different in this scenario either. Shaq may very well never win another championship while Kobes chances of getting more go up.

Heck, imagine if Nash decided to rejoin his buddy Dirk in Los Angeles instead of going to the Suns. I could definitely see the Lakers attempt to make that happen if this trade goes down.

You have some good points. I think Nash still leaves because with Shaq's really big contract they probably couldn't resign him.

The thing about when Shaq was traded you had some people that were talking like he was still going to be a dominating player for another 5 to 10 years.

[greg4012]

Where's the option for zero?

[greg4012]

Well Dirk is better than Pau and the Kobe-Pau duo won 2 rings... So I have to assume they’d probably win 3, maybe 4.

More overlap though. Pau did a lot more to anchor the defensive end and complement Kobe's game than Dirk would

[Fellow72]

I feel like they would actually clash. I wouldn't see them winning more than 2 or 3. Dirk's defensive inadequacies would probably be a point of tension for him and Kobe. We would probably see quite a few beautiful plays from those two during such a duo though.

[AMW27]

Obviously they would have to fill in the rest of the roster with the right pieces.

[AMW27]

I think 2 to 3 championships are possible much like with Gasol, but it comes down to what the front office can come up with to fill in the rest of the roster around Kobe and Dirk.

Can't blame Dallas for not wanting to do it though. If this was 1998-2000 Shaq, then maybe they'd go for it, but this was a Shaq that was getting close to no longer being the top player. So it wouldn't make much sense for them in the long run. Especially if Nash still ends up leaving for Phoenix. They'd have completely set themselves up be a big failure by 2006. Shaq and Nash didn't exactly get along in Phoenix in 2008, so there's a good chance that it's no different in this scenario either. Shaq may very well never win another championship while Kobes chances of getting more go up.

Heck, imagine if Nash decided to rejoin his buddy Dirk in Los Angeles instead of going to the Suns. I could definitely see the Lakers attempt to make that happen if this trade goes down.

I think in that scenario if Shaq never gets another ring and Kobe wins at least three without Shaq, then Kobe may winded up ranking higher than Shaq on the all time list.

[realball]

In that scenario, do the Lakers keep Marc Gasol? Because then they would win 5 championships for sure.

[cupcakesnake]

If Kobe and Dirk figure out the same screening chemistry that Dirk eventually established with Jason Terry/JJ Barea, that's pretty scary to think about. Kobe may not have been an elite 3-point shooter, but he was a ninja at all kinds of offball action. While Dirk isn't quite as fancy a passer as Pau, the extra gravity Dirk generates would essentially grant Kobe unlimited open mid range jumpshots. Kobe would have needed to become a quicker hitting passer to fully weaponize this duo. Dirk gravity wouldn't matter if opposing defenses could relax knowing Kobe wont always capitalize.

All of Kobe's success came when he could freelance attack around an offensively dangerous and versatile big. Kobe was a better player than Pau, but the Lakers offense was always at it's most dangerous when Kobe participated in a 2-way game, fully weaponizing Kobe's cutting, passing and midrange shooting. Iso Kobe could guarantee you a 40% look (a rare skill few players have, and Kobe is probably the best tough shot taker ever), but Kobe paired with another dangerous offensive player who commands attention and can pass, gave you something much much better.

Dirk won a championship being embraced as completely central to all offensive action, whether he was taking the shot or not. Is Dirk maximized next to Kobe, who kinda needed to go 1 on 5 several times a game to keep his big mamba energy going? The talent and fit is probably overwhelming regardless if it allows both players to be their best selves. I think Dirk is going to help Kobe more than Kobe is going to help Dirk though, even though this shouldn't be the case.

Also it matters how quickly they put a team around these 2. Kobe and Dirk aren't the pillars of a championship defense for example. The Shaq trade brought in Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant and a first round pick (I think it ended up being Jordan Farmar). Butler became Kwame and Chucky Atkinson, Kwame became Pau. I really doubt this happens, but imagine the Lakers just keep Marc Gasol... A handful of year with Kobe/Dirk/M.Gasol... now that's probably 3 championships.

[Liam_Gallagher]

It’s a tricky question because there was a domino effect after the Shaq trade. Sure, the Miami package was mediocre for the Lakers but in turn they switched Butler for Kwame, and ended up acquiring Gasol for Kwame and fillers. Also, the poor 2005 team allowed them to draft Bynum.

We’ll never know how the rest of the roster looks with Kobe and Dirk.