Travis Schlenk needs to catch more flack.

[12footrim]

They had the third pick.

This L goes most to Vlade IMO.

Nah. Not how it works. Schlienk deserves every bit the criticism that Vlade does. There is no consolation prize for passing on Luka or escaping that the GM blew it big time.

Not only the Suns, Kings and Hawks but there are ten or more teams that could have put together a serious offer to trade up to get Luka and didn’t. All of those GM’s deserve blame too.

Luka being a stud was obvious.

At least there was some logic to trading down at the time and still getting Trae Young and a good pick as well if that's who you really wanted.

Also Young's been pretty awesome offensively. You could at least see a path where he could become a kind of Curry type play. It's a lot worse to have drafted Ayton or Bagley IMO in 2015+ NBA. Especially with their lack of defense at positions you have to have it and with everyone going small in crunch time anyway. There was no logic in that to begin with IMO.

Young might not be Luka but he already is a pretty transformative offensive player in his own right. I mean how much do we really need to $hit on a player averaging 30 and 9 on .60% true shooting in year two. Good grief. Yean he's terrible on defense but at PG that can be minimized in ways it can't at Center or PF. I think the right team around him he can still be a super star on a contender.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Well one metric that does show it is his 114 ORtg and 117 DRtg.

And among point guards his ORPM at 6.66 is #2 among all PG's but his DRPM is -5.97 which is #95 among all point guards - dead last lol. Let that sink in. Behind Isaiah Thomas...

So his RPM of 0.70 (barely positive) ends up being #31 among all point guards despite his 2nd best offense. If that doesn't show much his defense drags him down as a complete player than idk what does.

But it is an improvement from his rookie year where he was #85 among point guards with a -2.00 RPM lol

Despite everything you said he’s still a positive player, and that’s with one of the worst supporting casts in the league.

I expect his defensive struggles to lessen as he’s surrounded by better defenders at much more important positions such as Clint Capela. His offensive numbers may even increase, which is truly crazy to think about.

There’s also the possibility that *gasp* a 21 year old player can improve on the defensive end as he gains experience.

I actually like Trae as a player. I never said that *gasp* a 21 yr old player couldn't improve on the defensive end as he gains experience. But, his defense actually got worse this year as he was handling more offensive responsibility. He's elite on offense. I'm just skeptical to what level his defense can get to.

It’s really about whether he can go from worst in the league to just regular bad like most of the players at his position. It’s not a high bar.

Like I said, expect his defensive numbers to go up. Good Forwards and Centers have a much more outsized impact on the defensive end and tend to improve the performance of the guards around them.

[Crizzle]

That’s great but seems irrelevant at the moment.

He’s going to be a really good PG, it’s just that Traes offensive ability is very rare.

You brought up trajectory. The kid has exploded since his late growth spurt. Ja can work on his jumper. Will trae ever have 1/4 of the athleticism that Ja has?

Being a PG is about a lot more than athleticism and jumpers.

Like I said Ja is great, I’m not trying to offend you. I’m just pointing out that it’s unfair to expect Ja to reach Traes current level offensively as very few PGs have.

not saying that he ever will. But what do Ja's stats look like with 33% usage?

[Galloisdaman]

The draft is not a math test. There is so much luck involved. No GM gets anything but an A grade when they come away with a 2nd year player averaging 30ppg plus another 1st round pick. As great as Luka is there is nothing wrong with what Atlanta came away with in the 2018 draft.

[kg01]

And even with all that, because of his piss poor defense, his impact on the court gets dragged down. Hawks play much better offense with Trae on the floor, but the defense falls off a cliff as well.

Offense>defense normally for point guards. But Young legit may have been the worst big minute defender in basketball last year.

These things aren't true. They're just things people say when they haven't watched the Hawks play.

How are they not true though? His impact on the court absolutely gets dragged down by his defense lol.

He has the 2nd best ORPM of any PG in the entire league! He's elite of elite on offense.

He has worst DRPM of any PG in the entire league.

In total, he has the 31st best RPM in the league. So if his RPM of 0.70 ends up being #31 among all point guards despite him having the 2nd best offense. If that doesn't show much his defense drags him down as a complete player than idk what does lol

You're saying that as if the other 4 dudes on the court are out there defending their rears off but Trae is just lettin' his man blow by.

Trae is just one of the tires on the tire-fire that is the Hawks' "defense" lately.

[themoneyteam2]

These things aren't true. They're just things people say when they haven't watched the Hawks play.

How are they not true though? His impact on the court absolutely gets dragged down by his defense lol.

He has the 2nd best ORPM of any PG in the entire league! He's elite of elite on offense.

He has worst DRPM of any PG in the entire league.

In total, he has the 31st best RPM in the league. So if his RPM of 0.70 ends up being #31 among all point guards despite him having the 2nd best offense. If that doesn't show much his defense drags him down as a complete player than idk what does lol

You're saying that as if the other 4 dudes on the court are out there defending their rears off but Trae is just lettin' his man blow by.

Trae is just one of the tires on the tire-fire that is the Hawks' "defense" lately.

Not what I said. Simply showed how Trae being the worst defender at his position in the league absolutely drags his impact down on the court.

How can it not be? It’s common sense lol. He’s elite offensively and league worst defensively. Of course the league worst defense will drag his impact down. Same thing with IT on the Celtics. Still a good player but his impact was lowered because he was so bad on defense

[Jamaaliver]

But yet all his advanced offensive metrics don't even sniff the other top guards in the league which is where the disconnect is.

His counting stats are great don't get me wrong but you would think a guy averaging 29 and 9 would have crazy advanced stats on offense but the opposite is true.

I'm not certain this is true. From The Athletic...

[SNPA]

They had the third pick.

This L goes most to Vlade IMO.

Nah. Not how it works. Schlienk deserves every bit the criticism that Vlade does. There is no consolation prize for passing on Luka or escaping that the GM blew it big time.

Not only the Suns, Kings and Hawks but there are ten or more teams that could have put together a serious offer to trade up to get Luka and didn’t. All of those GM’s deserve blame too.

Luka being a stud was obvious.

At least there was some logic to trading down at the time and still getting Trae Young and a good pick as well if that's who you really wanted.

Also Young's been pretty awesome offensively. You could at least see a path where he could become a kind of Curry type play. It's a lot worse to have drafted Ayton or Bagley IMO in 2015+ NBA. Especially with their lack of defense at positions you have to have it and with everyone going small in crunch time anyway. There was no logic in that to begin with IMO.

Young might not be Luka but he already is a pretty transformative offensive player in his own right. I mean how much do we really need to $hit on a player averaging 30 and 9 on .60% true shooting in year two. Good grief. Yean he's terrible on defense but at PG that can be minimized in ways it can't at Center or PF. I think the right team around him he can still be a super star on a contender.

I’m just not onboard with the traded Luka consolation prize logic. Either you drafted Luka or you failed. No middle ground IMO.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Luka has the most annoying fans in the league.

Rivaled only by Harden fans

[KidAmazin]

Imagine using DRPM as a way prove that Trae is a terrible defender. The defender is only as good as the team defense when it comes to metrics. With that being said, Trae isn't the greatest defender, but neither is Luka. Luka doesn't even guard opposing pont guards, he guards the worst offensive wing on the floor usually. The only difference between the two on defense is Luka crashes the glass, that's it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[God Squad]

I mean effectively taking Trae over Luka is bad enough but the worst part is last draft he comes out with reaching for Deandre Hunter at 4 and taking Cam Reddish at 10.

Looks like an unmitigated disaster so far but I'll give them some more time. His draft history has certainly not been great.

??? We're very happy with Hunter and Reddish. Clarke is the only guy taken after him that I'd want.

As far as the defense with Trae, it's completely possible to build a good defense around 1 bad player. The Celtics built an elite defense around IT by surrounding him with long, versatile defenders.

IDK what you folks want, honestly. Do you wanna hear that Hawks fans would rather have Luka? Yeah, no **** we would. So would every other team. But we still got a superstar player, and a bunch of decent young talent around him, which is the best spot we've been in in years.


We literally have one of these threads every 2 weeks, so I'm not sure what more "flack" would even look like. But I'm exhausted. Can we pivot to **** on Vlade for not picking Luka because of a personal feud with his dad?

I personally think this is far worse than the Hawks drafting Trae. Bagley looks far worse than Trae AND Vlade actually could have drafted Luka straight up without a trade being orchestrated.

[God Squad]

Obviously trae's stats have exploded this year, but his rookie stats are practically the same as morants. 1 more point and assist on worse efficiency

That doesn’t mean they’ll have the same trajectory.

If we’re being realistic, it’s unfair to expect Morant to reach the level of offensive production Trae reached this season. He’s part of the elite of the elite right now, something that only the greatest of PGs have achieved.

Ja has gone from an unranked high school kid to a potential superstar prospect in 3 years. What kind of trajectory is that?

Calm down.. I like Ja but Nah.

[God Squad]

How did the thread turn into Ja vs Trae? Thread has absolutely nothing to do with Ja

[Crizzle]

That doesn’t mean they’ll have the same trajectory.

If we’re being realistic, it’s unfair to expect Morant to reach the level of offensive production Trae reached this season. He’s part of the elite of the elite right now, something that only the greatest of PGs have achieved.

Ja has gone from an unranked high school kid to a potential superstar prospect in 3 years. What kind of trajectory is that?

Calm down.. I like Ja but Nah.

If you dont see\ star potential with Ja i dont know what to tell you

[God Squad]

Ja has gone from an unranked high school kid to a potential superstar prospect in 3 years. What kind of trajectory is that?

Calm down.. I like Ja but Nah.

If you dont see\ star potential with Ja i dont know what to tell you

You said superstar. IMO superstar is like the top 10, maybe top 5. Ja got the potential to be an all-star if the better PG's age out.

[Antinomy]

Suns & Kings GMs drafting back to back bigs in a perimeter-oriented league should be banishment-worthy.

Trae Young isn’t *quite* as good as Luka but he’s an absolute monster offensively. Idgaf about his defense. Mostly nobody can guard anybody in today’s league, you need a great defensive team.

Nothing really stands out about Ayton besides the fact he shoots tons of jumpers & plays like he’s allergic to contact. I honestly don’t even know what Bagley is good at lol. What an awful pic by SAC.

[Buzzard]

The hype patrol strikes. Luka gets 19 assist in a big game and the sky is falling for Ayton, Bagley, and Trae plus Cam. Luka was human last night with a 42.2/25.0/77.8 shooting night in a pretty big home loss. I guess some other fan should go post a topic on how Luka is overrated as a finisher in big games. Jordan would have went off for at least 50 trying to match Dame and win the game. Whats up Luka?

So far, just based on straight counting stats and efficiency, Ayton, Luka, and Trae are headed to the hall of fame if they keep this up for 10 years. There is almost no getting around that. We have a ways to go, but I still get why Schlenk did it.

[Crizzle]

Calm down.. I like Ja but Nah.

If you dont see\ star potential with Ja i dont know what to tell you

You said superstar. IMO superstar is like the top 10, maybe top 5. Ja got the potential to be an all-star if the better PG's age out.

Cool story. plenty of people see super star potential.

[HornetJail]

Trae is probably a top 10 offensive player in the league right now, after his second NBA season. If he's not top 10 then top 12 for sure. Sure he'll never be Luka, and even Trae+Reddish doesn't come close to how wildly successful Luka's NBA career is going to be. But I'll never fault someone for picking a perennial all-star.

It's like picking Hakeem over MJ... or Klay over Kawhi Leonard. As long as the Hawks are able to find success with Trae (and I think they will, the team's core isn't bad at all but they need defense), it's hard to get mad at that pick/trade when the worse guy is awfully close to 30/10 60 TS% at age 21.

[marco102]

In a vacuum sure but I'd rather have a well balanced PG who isn't a negative on either side of the ball. Trae is the worst defender at his position and actually the worst in the league by a lot of metrics. I'm not saying I'd take Ja > Trae but showing how bad Trae is on defense outweighs his offensive game in my opinion.

Statistically it doesn’t by any metric, but you’re entitled to your opinions even if they don’t accurately reflect reality.

Well one metric that does show it is his 114 ORtg and 117 DRtg.

And among point guards his ORPM at 6.66 is #2 among all PG's but his DRPM is -5.97 which is #95 among all point guards - dead last lol. Let that sink in. Behind Isaiah Thomas...

So his RPM of 0.70 (barely positive) ends up being #31 among all point guards despite his 2nd best offense. If that doesn't show much his defense drags him down as a complete player than idk what does.

But it is an improvement from his rookie year where he was #85 among point guards with a -2.00 RPM lol

I'll end your rant really quick. Are there 30 point guards in the NBA you'd take before Trae Young on your favorite team? If the answer to that is no, then your entire argument is a moot point. If it's yes, then list them.