How good was MJ's bball IQ

r0drig0lac · Post #21 » by **r0drig0lac** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:30 pm

2K rating 99

WarriorGM · Post #22 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:01 pm

If there is a great basketball player who should be synonymous with basketball IQ it should probably be Bill Russell. Ahead of his time. Player-coach of a championship team.

Picasso · Post #23 » by **Picasso** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:07 pm

fianchetto wrote:The OP reads like a troll post even if it isn’t. So many names omitted. MJ was highest on the list though.

Lebron, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Robinson, KG.

Picasso · Post #24 » by **Picasso** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:08 pm

WarriorGM wrote:The best? No. Jordan had terrific athleticism that allowed him to do things others couldn't. That's what made him exceptional. His basketball IQ is a murkier business. I simply cannot rate it that highly because I would assume it would help him off the court as well. As the owner of a basketball team I assume he has to rely on it to some extent. His lack of success as an owner prevents me from rating him high. Compare to Jerry West's success as a basketball executive.

Well considering he is the poorest of the single owners in the NBA it makes it hard to build a team.

HeartBreakKid · Post #25 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:18 pm

Picasso wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:The best? No. Jordan had terrific athleticism that allowed him to do things others couldn't. That's what made him exceptional. His basketball IQ is a murkier business. I simply cannot rate it that highly because I would assume it would help him off the court as well. As the owner of a basketball team I assume he has to rely on it to some extent. His lack of success as an owner prevents me from rating him high. Compare to Jerry West's success as a basketball executive.

Well considering he is the poorest of the single owners in the NBA it makes it hard to build a team.

you really think that's why his team is bad? Plenty of relatively poor teams got great players without going over the cap.

What about when he was in Washington?

Anyway, having a high basketball IQ has nothing to do with being an executive, owner or coach.

EasternHeretic · Post #26 » by **EasternHeretic** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:37 pm

r0drig0lac wrote:2K rating 99

Petergrifindor · Post #27 » by **Petergrifindor** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:43 pm

Genius level.

LeMasta · Post #28 » by **LeMasta** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:45 pm

dumb high iq

Air Apparent · Post #29 » by **Air Apparent** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:23 pm

voted jordan but i think kobe's was higher, kobe in general as a person seemed extremely intelligent

Heej · Post #30 » by **Heej** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:25 pm

Jordan had innate sense for the game, but I'd argue he has higher EQ which is what allowed him to dominate and outmaneuver his opponents; along with grasping the ebbs and flows of a game. His shot selection wasn't perfect though, and he often forced up contested shots over double teams as well as often gambling for steals; but he potentially had GOAT EQ that allowed him to bend the game and his opponents to his will.

As far as raw IQ goes he's markedly below CP3 Who potentially has GOAT IQ. Also, it should be noted that MJ played vs less complicated defensive schemes and faced a lot of single coverage but still took bad shots. I'm not as convinced those tendencies wouldn't be exacerbated vs modern defenses. I'd gauge his IQ as a low A+ Like a 96/100 while LeBron Bird CP3 Are like 98-99

Curmudgeon · Post #31 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:51 pm

MJ's BBIQ was off the charts.

VanWest82 · Post #32 » by **VanWest82** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:04 pm

Heej wrote:Also, it should be noted that MJ played vs less complicated defensive schemes and faced a lot of single coverage but still took bad shots.

While this is technically true you're missing the context that basketball in the 80s and 90s was played as close to the basket as possible. MJ was an aberration in that he at least figured out how to score efficiently in the MR when teams walled him off. No one was shooting pull up threes. It was considered a bad shot. So you have the greatest player ever trying to score near the hoop with a bunch of extra bodies in and around the paint. Yes there were no zone defenses, etc., but it was arguably more to navigate than guys today that play four or five out and the lane is always open if you can drive. As many have said, Mike would've killed in this era.

Woodsanity · Post #33 » by **Woodsanity** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:05 pm

Very high but definitely not the best ever.... People underestimate how much MJ's physical tools played a role in him being the GOAT.

MJ was physically better than someone like Kobe in every single way to be honest.

You give MJ CP3's body and he wouldn't come close to being the GOAT. Come on now....

Jaqua92 · Post #34 » by **Jaqua92** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:27 pm

elchengue20 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Lol kinda crazy people think that in order for Jordan to be the best he has to be the absolute best at every portion of basketball.

Jordan at this point is pretty much a myth. A strange case of a player who is arguagbly the GOAT and at the same time an overated player.

He did have a good to great IQ, but there is a lot of players who were better. CP3 for example.

Jordan's scoring ability was because of his IQ. His moves, counter moves and ability to create space were well calculated, practiced and theorized moves. These weren't like "Kyrie moves" where he just flashes until he gets an opening. Every offensive 1v1 possession he created space using his superior basketball intelligence, knowledge of what moves do what to what defenders, where to put himself on the floor to capitalize, etc.

CP3 being smarter in terms of *basketball* is just absurdly silly.

Jordan isn't the GOAT IQ. But he's better than Paul, who isn't either.

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Jaqua92 · Post #35 » by **Jaqua92** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:29 pm

Heej wrote:Jordan had innate sense for the game, but I'd argue he has higher EQ which is what allowed him to dominate and outmaneuver his opponents; along with grasping the ebbs and flows of a game. His shot selection wasn't perfect though, and he often forced up contested shots over double teams as well as often gambling for steals; but he potentially had GOAT EQ that allowed him to bend the game and his opponents to his will.

As far as raw IQ goes he's markedly below CP3 Who potentially has GOAT IQ. Also, it should be noted that MJ played vs less complicated defensive schemes and faced a lot of single coverage but still took bad shots. I'm not as convinced those tendencies wouldn't be exacerbated vs modern defenses. I'd gauge his IQ as a low A+ Like a 96/100 while LeBron Bird CP3 Are like 98-99

Leave to Heej to squeeze in his Lebron >Jordan stuff.

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HollowEarth · Post #36 » by **HollowEarth** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:30 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Lol kinda crazy people think that in order for Jordan to be the best he has to be the absolute best at every portion of basketball.

This.

I was initially unsure if this was a troll thread. CP3's biggest strength is bball IQ. He always makes the right decision. The poll doesn't even list Lebron, Nash, Duncan, Kobe, Stockton, Magic, Bird, Big O, or Bill Russel. Our defensive fundamentals that we had to learn as kids are an attempt to systematize what came naturally to Bill Russel. Jordan's becoming a mythological figure.

dlts20 · Post #37 » by **dlts20** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:38 pm

Air Apparent wrote:voted jordan but i think kobe's was higher, kobe in general as a person seemed extremely intelligent

Kobe had a terrible iq in terms of actually using it. His IQ was to go 1 on 5 with bad percentages a ton of time. Wade used his iq way better

The_Hater · Post #38 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:39 pm

While MJ’s Bball IQ was elite, I would stop short of calling it the best ever.

MJ’s competitiveness was the best I’ve ever seen, he worked as hard at his craft as just about anyone and he is on the short list of for greatest athletes in NBA history. He rates extremely high in those 3 areas but I would rank Magic, Bird, Lebron, CP3 and a few others higher in bball IQ. Bird and Magic were off the charts.

Braggins · Post #39 » by **Braggins** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:58 pm

Lol, even more evidence that people just have a completely made up version of MJ in their head.

Hes not even top 25 all-time in BBIQ... He wouldn't be top 5 just compared to players currently in the league and maybe not even top 10 when you factor in guys who aren't necessarily that good overall, but survive off of really intelligent play.

JoeyLightYears · Post #40 » by **JoeyLightYears** » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:01 pm

MJ could accomplish pretty much whatever he wanted on the court. There was a period prior to winning titles where then coach Doug Collins put him at PG and he spat off like 10 straight triple doubles. Which is not so easy unless you know how to run the offense and exploit matchups. But I wouldn’t say his bb iq was all time great (really hard to say). Magic, Bird, and LeBron are the smartest I ever saw. Here’s a cool clip from a very astute basketball fan regarding how LeBron sees the game.

Watch on YouTube

. It’s just a routine play, the kind of thing that you see dozens of times a game but it gives you an idea into how some players really parse they information happening around them.

better IQ